B7100 hst hydraulic problems

[bmwmike]

1995 B7100 hst 4wheel drive , 700 hrs.
lost all hydraulic function , no fel, no 3 pt, no power steering. I was about 1/4 mile from house after blocking up front end loader I drove it home. Engine oil is now over full , and hydraulic oil is just above the low mark on the dip stick.

Do you think I blew a hydraulic seal or do think I blew the pump, and is their a way to test it?

The way it quit all at once , an did not put a lot more hydraulic oil into the engine after I ran it for at lease 10 more minutes , I leaning towards the pump being bad.

What do you guys think?

mike

 

[TheOldHokie]

1995 B7100 hst 4wheel drive , 700 hrs.
lost all hydraulic function , no fel, no 3 pt, no power steering. I was about 1/4 mile from house after blocking up front end loader I drove it home. Engine oil is now over full , and hydraulic oil is just above the low mark on the dip stick.

Do you think I blew a hydraulic seal or do think I blew the pump, and is their a way to test it?

The way it quit all at once , an did not put a lot more hydraulic oil into the engine after I ran it for at lease 10 more minutes , I leaning towards the pump being bad.

What do you guys think?

mike

Multiple possibilities so be careful about jumping to (expensive) conclusions.. A simple preliminary test is remove the hose connected to the pressure IN port on the loader valve and put it in a clean 5 gallon bucket. Start the tractor and see if the pump is delivering oil to the bucket. If no oil the next thing I would check is the oil strainer on the suction line pickup. When was the last time you cleaned it?

Edit: Just noticed the comment on engine oil being over full. That sort of points to the pump but I would still do the preliminary checks above.

Dan

 

[bmwmike]

Multiple possibilities so be careful about jumping to (expensive) conclusions.. A simple preliminary test is remove the hose connected to the pressure IN port on the loader valve and put it in a clean 5 gallon bucket. Start the tractor and see if the pump is delivering oil to the bucket. If no oil the next thing I would check is the oil strainer on the suction line pickup. When was the last time you cleaned it?

Edit: Just noticed the comment on engine oil being over full. That sort of points to the pump but I would still do the preliminary checks above.

Dan

Dan thanks for the reply.

Strainers were cleaned and Hydraulic oil and filter were changed about 20 hrs ago. With it leaking hydro oil into the engine and thinning the engine oil I an not sure I want to start it back up and take a chance of engine damage . Can you think of any other cause of hydraulic failure other than pump failure , seal failure, low fluid, strainer plugged ?

mike

 

[TheOldHokie]

Dan thanks for the reply.

Strainers were cleaned and Hydraulic oil and filter were changed about 20 hrs ago. With it leaking hydro oil into the engine and thinning the engine oil I an not sure I want to start it back up and take a chance of engine damage . Can you think of any other cause of hydraulic failure other than pump failure , seal failure, low fluid, strainer plugged ?

mike

Off the top of my head a broken relief valve spring might dump all pressure.

You ran it for 10 minutes and i would not worry about another 60 seconds. Thats the most you could run it with that hose disconnected.

Probably the pump but when i looked at the online parts pages i could not find a part number for the pump. B7100 looks a lot like my B7200 with 1630 loader and I could not find a pump for it either. I will check my I replaced that pump many years ago and it was pricey then. I will check my paper manual to see if I can find a number and price/availability.

Dan

 

[bmwmike]

Off the top of my head a broken relief valve spring might dump all pressure.

You ran it for 10 minutes and i would not worry about another 60 seconds. Thats the most you could run it with that hose disconnected.

Probably the pump but when i looked at the online parts pages i could not find a part number for the pump. B7100 looks a lot like my B7200 with 1630 loader and I could not find a pump for it either. I will check my I replaced that pump many years ago and it was pricey then. I will check my paper manual to see if I can find a number and price/availability.

Dan

According to my research on this form White House Products in the UK makes a replacement pump that some people on here have used in there b7100 . It is a 6 gal / min right hand rotation direct drive pump, and it is less than $200.00 shipped to me. Their pump model # 5p1/41041gpo. I can use the extra 2 gal/min volume for my power steering unit. I am still researching but this looks good so far.

mike

 

[bmwmike]

Off the top of my head a broken relief valve spring might dump all pressure.

You ran it for 10 minutes and i would not worry about another 60 seconds. Thats the most you could run it with that hose disconnected.

Probably the pump but when i looked at the online parts pages i could not find a part number for the pump. B7100 looks a lot like my B7200 with 1630 loader and I could not find a pump for it either. I will check my I replaced that pump many years ago and it was pricey then. I will check my paper manual to see if I can find a number and price/availability.

Dan

Some people on here have used a replacement pump from White House Products in the UK . It is a 6gal/min right hand rotation, direct drive pump that will fit the b7100. Price is less than $200.00 shipped to me . Their model # is 5p1/41041gpo. I am still researching but this is looking good so far.

I could not get this to post the first time I wrote it and now both answers posted , sorry.

mike

 

[torch]

Oops. Double post.

 

[torch]

Whitehouse (in England -- https://www.whitehouseproductsltd.com/home) offers a very economical aftermarket replacement (even after shipping to Canada). It is somewhat larger, and a tight squeeze, but it will fit and work on a B7100. I did it here:

B7100 Hydraulic pump swaps

Nope, that slow boat only takes 30 days. They are still in the factory!!:D

www.orangetractortalks.com

and a few others have had similar success since.

Just make sure you order part number: 5P1/41041GPO description: GPO120R EQUIVALENT GEAR PUMP (The R stands for right hand rotation.)

They sell a left hand pump with a similar part number that is left hand rotation and will NOT work on the B7100. Don't Ask Me How I Know This™ . )It fits a B8200 with gear drive, not any of the direct drive models).

 

[Russell King]

Probably the seal on the hydraulic pump input shaft is bad. Easy to see by removing the pump and seeing if the seal is way out of place or rubber is torn. Minor damage should not shut down hydraulics (probably).

 

[TheOldHokie]

Some people on here have used a replacement pump from White House Products in the UK . It is a 6gal/min right hand rotation, direct drive pump that will fit the b7100. Price is less than $200.00 shipped to me . Their model # is 5p1/41041gpo. I am still researching but this is looking good so far.

I could not get this to post the first time I wrote it and now both answers posted , sorry.

mike

Interesting - I am getting $120 delivered - 65 pounds for the pump and 20 pounds shipping

 

[bmwmike]

Interesting - I am getting $120 delivered - 65 pounds for the pump and 20 pounds shipping

I just checked their web site again an for pump 5p1/41041gpo the price is 101 pounds plus 1 pound for package plus shipping . total 131.80 pounds or $183.00 us

mike

 

[TheOldHokie]

I just checked their web site again an for pump 5p1/41041gpo the price is 101 pounds plus 1 pound for package plus shipping . total 131.80 pounds or $183.00 us

mike

Something os different. Price they are giving me on that pump is 67.81 less VAT. I own a LBC and purchase auto parts from Rimmet Bros and dont pay VAT on thise purchases. Perhaps that has changed after BREXIT. Does your price include VAT?

Dan

 

[bmwmike]

Something os different. Price they are giving me on that pump is 67.81 less VAT. I own a LBC and purchase auto parts from Rimmet Bros and dont pay VAT on thise purchases. Perhaps that has changed after BREXIT. Does your price include VAT?

Dan

No VAT charge

 

[TheOldHokie]

No VAT charge

I just took an order for one 5p1/41041gpo pump all the way to CC and the total with Fedex Economy shipping was 98.21 ($136.21). I registered as a business owner - perhaps that is the difference.

Dan

 

[bmwmike]

I just took an order for one 5p1/41041gpo pump all the way to CC and the total with Fedex Economy shipping was 98.21 ($136.21). I registered as a business owner - perhaps that is the difference.

Dan

I just did the same ,and did not register as a business owner. the total including shipping to the U.S. was $183.00 that quite a bit of difference.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I just did the same ,and did not register as a business owner. the total including shipping to the U.S. was $183.00 that quite a bit of difference.

I just did the same ,and did not register as a business owner. the total including shipping to the U.S. was $183.00 that quite a bit of difference.

Well I just (accidentally) bought it while attempting to get a little deeper into payment
It's yours for my price (see attached screenshot) and another $14 shipping if you want it. If not I will put it on my B7200 as an "upgrade".

Dan

PS> If you do buy from them be advised you are not asked to confirm the purchase after entering your card info.....

 

[bmwmike]

Well I just (accidentally) bought it while attempting to get a little deeper into payment
It's yours for my price (see attached screenshot) and another $14 shipping if you want it. If not I will put it on my B7200 as an "upgrade".

Dan

PS> If you do buy from them be advised you are not asked to confirm the purchase after entering your card info.....

I ordered one from them yesterday. If I had seen this post sooner I could of saved myself some money.
I received an e-mail from them confirming the sale but no information on shipping date.

mike

 

[TheOldHokie]

I ordered one from them yesterday. If I had seen this post sooner I could of saved myself some money.
I received an e-mail from them confirming the sale but no information on shipping date.

mike

I ordered one from them yesterday. If I had seen this post sooner I could of saved myself some money.
I received an e-mail from them confirming the sale but no information on shipping date.

mike

Same here - order comfirmation but no shipping yet. Give its a weekend not surprising. I will be interested in how your install goes. The pressure side hard line is a banjo connection to the pump and will undoubtedly require some persuasion to get it to line up with the longer pump. I will wait to hear how you fare before undertaking a transplant on mine.

Dan

 

[torch]

The pressure side hard line is a banjo connection to the pump and will undoubtedly require some persuasion to get it to line up with the longer pump.

Correct. But it's only slightly long. When I did mine, I loosened the mounting bolts for the hydraulic block about a quarter inch, installed the banjo not quite tight, then used the hydraulic block mounting bolts to draw things into place. A slight pry or wood wedge between the engine and side of the pipe may also be beneficial. Then I did a final tighten on the banjo bolt.

The other tight spot is the top outside mounting nut for the pump itself. The larger pump body and casting shape make it impossible to get in there with a standard wrench. I had to reshape an extra wrench (13mm?) with a grinder in order to tighten that nut.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Correct. But it's only slightly long. When I did mine, I loosened the mounting bolts for the hydraulic block about a quarter inch, installed the banjo not quite tight, then used the hydraulic block mounting bolts to draw things into place. A slight pry or wood wedge between the engine and side of the pipe may also be beneficial. Then I did a final tighten on the banjo bolt.

The other tight spot is the top outside mounting nut for the pump itself. The larger pump body and casting shape make it impossible to get in there with a standard wrench. I had to reshape an extra wrench (13mm?) with a grinder in order to tighten that nut.

Yes, I read your old thread. When i put a new OEM pump on my machine years ago even it was a fight. I'm wondering if it might be easier to use a short hose between the block and pump.

Edit: I just looked at the B7200 parts book and it appears the block mounts directly on the pump outlet port so scratch that thought.I did not remember that detail but it explains why the OEM replacement was a bit of a PITA. So I took a walk out to the shop and looked at the plumbing on my machine before I reinserted foot in my mouth. I have attached a picture of the setup on that machine - no mounting bolts on the outlet block - just the banjo connection to the underside of the pump which actually makes things a little simpler. It looks like the pressure line going to the rear is an ordinary flare nut coupling to the outlet block. That could be trimmed back and re-flared if the difference in length is enough to warrant concern. Or it could be cut off further back and a short length of hose installed between the pipe and block in the same way as the suction line.. The latter might make it a lot easier to R&R that pump.

Dan