B6100/7100 DIY 'charge regulator'

Vigo

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B6100, B8200
Jan 9, 2022
595
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San Antonio Texas
I consider this a repair, so hopefully im putting this in the right section.

On some other post i mentioned that i had replaced the original 'voltage regulator' with a small bridge rectifier and solar charge controller, but i didn't have any pics of that and kinda felt bad about leaving that 'unsupported'. Well, i've done it again and took pictures this time!
1702874638502.jpeg

Disregard that mess of tiny lithium batteries for now, but if you're interested i wrote about that on another forum here and will probably post about it on this forum when it's 'done done'.

As far as the charging system, these tractors have a 'dynamo' which is basically some magnets glued to the inside of a pulley which spins near a stationary coil of wire. This creates AC (alternating current) voltage. Batteries are DC (direct current). To turn AC into DC you have to pass it through some diodes in an arrangement called a 'full wave bridge rectifier'.
Like this:
1702875509207.png

That's the little square box with the male spade terminals on it. If you buy them in bulk they are only a few dollars a piece. I believe that one is rated for 35a.
1702875536817.png
1702875643182.png

For the record, stator is referring to the 'stationary winding' which your dynamo leads are the two ends of. Electrically the dynamo is just one long piece of wire that goes in behind a pulley, turns around a bunch of loops forming a 'coil', then comes back out. The pulley has magnets in it and would be called the rotor because it rotates, thus the rotor/stator abbreviations. The only variable in how this thing works is the engine rpm, so your AC voltage coming out will rise and fall with engine rpm. I have read that it should be about ~28v AC at max throttle, and i believe it is normal that it will be below 12 (ie not high enough to charge the battery) until you are at about 1/3rd to 1/2 throttle. In other words, no charging happens at low idle and i believe that is a normal condition.

So you put the AC from your dynamo through there and get some pulsating DC. That then becomes the 'solar' hooked to a small solar charge controller.
1702876493157.png

At cheapest those can be about $8-9 (the one pictured on my tractor is $16) and they are basically a little electronic brain that compares the higher voltage of its input ("solar") to the lower voltage of its output (battery) and rapidly turns a switch between them off and on (called PWM or Pulse Width Modulation) until the voltage of the battery rises to a setpoint (which is usually adjustable). They usually do 'multi-stage charging', with adjustable voltage setpoints for the different phases like 'bulk, absorption, float' which im not going to get into here. Main point is it's adjustable. They also sometimes have 'load ports' which can control some external circuit/device based on voltage setpoints. I did not use that here.

So, this whole bridge rectifier + solar controller thing just replaces the stock non-adjustable voltage regulator with an adjustable voltage regulator which gives you the option to ALSO power it with a small solar panel on the tractor as a 'battery maintainer', which my tractor has, and also use the 'load ports' to add control/safety to some other circuit. It's definitely not for everyone, but it does work and for some people might offer some advantages such as being able to adjust voltage to switch to lithium batteries, or mixing power from multiple charge sources. It doesn't offer any inherent functional advantage vs the stock stuff when on a stock tractor. I don't recommend you do it as any kind of 'upgrade' unless electrical is just a hobby or interest of yours, like it is mine.

Anything with a similar charging system could use this (even a riding mower) although anything with a 3-wire stator would need a different rectifier brick with more terminals (it would be a 3-phase full wave bridge rectifier).

I love a tractor thread with pictures of tractors, so here are pics of both tractors I have done this on. My friend's has the backhoe, i fixed that one up in this thread.
1702915117133.png

Mine has the belly mower on it in this pic (usually 60" box blade as loader counterweight) and you can just barely see the 5w solar panel i have under the seat which gets sun when the tractor is parked because i always park it with the seat bungied up to the steering wheel.
1702915481162.png
 
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Russell King

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Thank you for posting.
Interesting use of something that is fairly common now
 
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Vigo

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Equipment
B6100, B8200
Jan 9, 2022
595
340
63
San Antonio Texas
So, more of an electronics experiment than a valid repair method, but some might find it interesting.

The dynamo on this particular tractor only puts out ~8v ac at idle. It rises to ~28v ac at max rpm. The ac must be passed through diodes to convert it to DC, and those drop somewhere around 0.4-0.7v before you get DC to charge the battery with. The battery is ~12.6v and no charging will occur until the dynamo voltage, minus the diode losses, is still over 12.6v. Once the rpm rises to the point that the ‘open circuit’ voltage (ie no current flow) would be higher than 12.6, the battery basically ‘clamps’ the voltage to something close to its own voltage, so that as rpm rises further you see only a small voltage rise, but current goes up (and maxes out around 5 amps).

Ok, so thats how it works. Issue is the voltage on MY dynamo wont go high enough to charge the battery til over half throttle. An idea i wanted to test was to put a ‘step up converter’ in between my rectifier and battery to boost voltage to be high enough to charge battery at lower revs. So, i used a ~$15 12 to 24v step up converter that actually has a “9 to 40v” input range and figured id hit 9v just off idle and get SOME amount of charge. I installed it and it turned out to be true: I could get 1amp of charging just off idle. So the entire idle to half throttle region went from ‘no charging’ to ‘charging at least a little’.
F918FCFF-4448-4E3D-A324-1DA1033B1E38.jpeg

Its not installed in this picture but the step up converter is the small box sitting loose on the fuel tank.

Some may wonder, wont a 24v output hurt the battery? It wont, for two reasons:
1. The battery will ‘clamp’ the voltage down close to its own voltage until the battery is full, at which point it will lose ‘control’ of the voltage and it WOULD rise too high, but..
2. The solar charge controller in between the 24v source and the battery will simply disconnect the 24v from the battery when the battery becomes so full that the voltage would rise beyond 14.6 (max safe voltage for these batteries).
3. This only applies in the case of lithium batteries or other batteries protected by an internal BMS aka Battery Management System, but the bms’s would internally disconnect the batteries if they tried to rise above 14.6v anyway.

So there are 3 reasons why using a 24v source is ok. For the record the stock dynamo system already functions like this anyway because the dynamo can make ~30v but the stock ‘regulator’ limits it to something safe for the battery anyway. So theres my update.
 
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fried1765

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Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Nov 14, 2019
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So, more of an electronics experiment than a valid repair method, but some might find it interesting.

The dynamo on this particular tractor only puts out ~8v ac at idle. It rises to ~28v ac at max rpm. The ac must be passed through diodes to convert it to DC, and those drop somewhere around 0.4-0.7v before you get DC to charge the battery with. The battery is ~12.6v and no charging will occur until the dynamo voltage, minus the diode losses, is still over 12.6v. Once the rpm rises to the point that the ‘open circuit’ voltage (ie no current flow) would be higher than 12.6, the battery basically ‘clamps’ the voltage to something close to its own voltage, so that as rpm rises further you see only a small voltage rise, but current goes up (and maxes out around 5 amps).

Ok, so thats how it works. Issue is the voltage on MY dynamo wont go high enough to charge the battery til over half throttle. An idea i wanted to test was to put a ‘step up converter’ in between my rectifier and battery to boost voltage to be high enough to charge battery at lower revs. So, i used a ~$15 12 to 24v step up converter that actually has a “9 to 40v” input range and figured id hit 9v just off idle and get SOME amount of charge. I installed it and it turned out to be true: I could get 1amp of charging just off idle. So the entire idle to half throttle region went from ‘no charging’ to ‘charging at least a little’.
View attachment 118807
Its not installed in this picture but the step up converter is the small box sitting loose on the fuel tank.

Some may wonder, wont a 24v output hurt the battery? It wont, for two reasons:
1. The battery will ‘clamp’ the voltage down close to its own voltage until the battery is full, at which point it will lose ‘control’ of the voltage and it WOULD rise too high, but..
2. The solar charge controller in between the 24v source and the battery will simply disconnect the 24v from the battery when the battery becomes so full that the voltage would rise beyond 14.6 (max safe voltage for these batteries).
3. This only applies in the case of lithium batteries or other batteries protected by an internal BMS aka Battery Management System, but the bms’s would internally disconnect the batteries if they tried to rise above 14.6v anyway.

So there are 3 reasons why using a 24v source is ok. For the record the stock dynamo system already functions like this anyway because the dynamo can make ~30v but the stock ‘regulator’ limits it to something safe for the battery anyway. So theres my update.
VERY informative, but well beyond the comprehension of this Civil engineer.
I only understand moving dirt, building things, and trying to make potable water from liquid crap!
 
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Russell King

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L185F, Modern Ag Competitor 4’ shredder, Rhino tiller, rear dirt scoop
Jun 17, 2012
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Austin, Texas
VERY informative, but well beyond the comprehension of this Civil engineer.
I only understand moving dirt, building things, and trying to make potable water from liquid crap!
Convert to flow in channel or pipe (preferably) and then you got it!

But might have forgotten most of that information also if you never used it in you professional life
 
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fried1765

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Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Nov 14, 2019
7,847
5,070
113
Eastham, Ma
Convert to flow in channel or pipe (preferably) and then you got it!

But might have forgotten most of that information also if you never used it in you professional life
Oh....I do remember some, and I do still have the books/tables.
Much forgotten,...... from lack of use though.
 
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