B6000 brakes and service questions

[woodsnhills]

I just acquired my first compact tractor: a B6000E with a Woods belly mower and a Kubota Caryall. Tractor runs really well for the most part, but needs some maintenance.

Starting to perform some maintenance on the little guy:

Highest priority are the brakes... they feel bound up, like they're not engaging the drums. So last night I tore into one side and found that the lever mechanism (see photo below) is frozen and won't budge. I think the shoes are still good as they have about 3/16" material, but would like a second opinion.

The lever that is stuck is the one that the threaded brake rod with spring is attached to.

Any advice here would be highly appreciated. My plan is to try to get the lever working again (not sure how yet) and then reassemble and test. If it works, repeat on other side.

I have several other questions but will save them for later.
Thanks for any advice!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Spray the mechanism with PB blaster and let it soak for a whole.
If you can take it apart, clean off the rust and corrosion and grease well.

 

[Rob]

dHi , you are not alone with this problem, it effects a fair few models inc the b6000's .
To be honest with you, it can be a very quick and easy fix or a total pain in the backside.

To help fix the problem you need to understand whats happening with the acuating arm/rod which goes through the brake pad backplate.

The tension created from the two springs holding the shoes together does in itself create the spring return force for the shoes, the spring on the outside of the backplate connected to the brake pedal accuating rod creates the spring pressure to return the brake pedal etc.

The problem that occurs is this, the brake lever/rod passes through the backplate and operates the openeing and closing of the shoes, to keep the internals clean and dry the rod is fitted with 2 orings which normally keep mother nature out of the brake drum assembly.
if the rod is not kept greased and the orings checked for wear etc , dirt and water can enter the drum through this point, not alot but enough in many cases to cause the rod to seize up.
The solution is to remove the lever/rod assembly from the cover etc and clean both parts , fit new rubber orings, lubricate and refit, job done.

If you cant get the the parts free you need to let them soak for a fair while in penatrating fluid or simliar, you may need to put it in a vice and gentle tap the shaft out with a soft hammer.

Wose case option which i hope you dont have is when its totally siezed and excessive force is not appriopate as you stand a good chance of doing more damage to other parts.
You will need to get some decent torch heat on the affected area and slowly loosen it up until its free, then perform the step as mentioned earlier.
I have done this repair many times now and all have required either one method of the other.
just take your time and you will be good to go.
dont forget to fit a new gasket on the backplate, also make a note of which way round the shoes are fitted, it does make a difference which will not become obvious until you come to readjust the brakes etc.

good luck with it.
rob

 

[woodsnhills]

Thanks for the advice NWI and Rob!

I'll get back to work on it but due to family obligations and a full schedule it won't be until next week. I'll post back with updates and/or questions.

I do have a quick question while it's on my mind: when I go to reinstall the brake backing plate, can I use RTV sealant in place of a gasket? I don't see any reason why not, but maybe I'm missing something obvious.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Yes RTV will be fine to use on it.

 

[woodsnhills]

Finally had some time to work on the tractor.

Got the brake lever free after repeated soaking and beating on it with a drift and hammer until it freed up. The outer o-ring had failed, letting dirt and rust seize the lever in the backing plate.
Got that side cleaned up and reinstalled, works great too!

Started the other side this week. Disassembly went much quicker as the lever was not frozen, instead the brake shoes and drum were coated with grease. It was obvious someone had worked on this side and did not properly reassemble. The snap ring holding the brake drum was missing too. Big mess, but after cleaning and properly reassembling it, it should work just fine.

Also did some other maintenance on the tractor. Changed the oil (no signs of coolant or metal shavings, but the oil was THICK!), flushed radiator and filled with 50/50 antifreeze, cleaned and properly reinstalled air cleaner (it was installed upside down = NO filtration!), and did a BUNCH of cleaning.

Hoping to have her mowing by this weekend!

 

[woodsnhills]

Well, got the brakes back together and everything looked good. Took the tractor for a test run but the brakes still didn't stop it!

Tried adjusting the pedals but no luck.

As far as I can tell all the hardware and installation is good, but I can't explain why the brakes aren't fully working. I'm at a loss. Any suggestions?

 

[woodsnhills]

Some more info… hoping for any insight.

Jacked rear of tractor up so both wheels were off ground and started engine in first gear. When I pushed the right brake pedal, the right wheel would stop; left brake stopped left wheel. But when I pressed BOTH pedals (either locked together or not), one wheel would stop and the other would go FASTER. If I mashed both pedals down as hard as I could, the engine would stutter and stall.

Some of my thoughts:

1. Brake shoes and/or drums are glazed over. Disassemble and sand surfaces.

2. Pedals STILL not properly adjusted. There's about 2-3" of pedal travel currently, but I have no frame of reference to go by so not sure what is "normal."

3. Something in the differential. When both pedals were pushed and it was trying to "decide" which wheel would stop, there was sometimes a racket coming from the differential.

4. Need new brake shoes. I doubt (and hope) this is it because it looked like there was sufficient material, but I could be wrong.

 

[phildac]

Pushing just one pedal and stopping one wheel will cause the other wheel to go faster when the differential is unlocked, that is normal.

Sounds like it is still out of adjustment. Easiest way is to jack up rear and adjust with engine off and turn by hand. They sound like they are working correctly, just need more adjustment. If you are able to kill the engine its got to be close to being right.

If adjusted all the way in, the shoes or the drums are worn out.

Might also want to clean the shoes with some brake cleaner if they got any oil/grease on them.

 

[Tooljunkie]

De-greasing brake shoes can be somewhat of a challenge, warming shoe lining
With a torch will sweat out the oil, and continous wiping with a clean rag. Dont overdo it with the torch, as you can actually burn the lining. This thread is helpful to me also, as my left pedal is sticking, now i know whats up.

Thanks.

 

[woodsnhills]

Resurrecting my old thread here with some updates and more questions!

The update: was able to mow all season - sure saves a LOT of time vs push mower! Towards the end of the season had an issue with the coupler (not sure what it's called) that connects the front crankshaft with the front PTO shaft coming undone, thus losing my mowing ability. After lots of tinkering I think I have this problem licked.

I haven't had any luck starting the tractor in temperatures below 30. Not a big problem, with our Kentucky weather. If you just wait a few days chances are you'll get a nice 40+ day. Cleared some land and moved some firewood this past week... felt like a big kid playing with his toys!

So here's my question, and it's related to the brakes:
Are you supposed to be able to slow or stop the tractor WITHOUT pressing the clutch, just using the brakes? If so then my brakes still need work. I currently use the throttle alone to adjust speed and the clutch+brakes to come to a full stop.
Sorry, a really noobie question.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Resurrecting my old thread here with some updates and more questions!
So here's my question, and it's related to the brakes:
Are you supposed to be able to slow or stop the tractor WITHOUT pressing the clutch, just using the brakes? If so then my brakes still need work. I currently use the throttle alone to adjust speed and the clutch+brakes to come to a full stop.
Sorry, a really noobie question.

You can slow movement down by slowing the motor down, but no you can't stop or really slow it down with the brakes without pushing in the clutch.
Don't do brakes with clutch out and under power, you will just fry the brakes.
The motor, clutch and gears are much more powerful than the brakes ability to stop them!
So stopping or slowing is clutch first and then brakes, it's not like an automatic that can be have the brake applied with it in gear.

 

[woodsnhills]

Great, so I'm doing it right! Just wanted to make sure.