B5200D Transmission Case Fail

[3Ti]

So here is my long story short...
Digging holes in the back yard for some new trees we were going to plant with my B5200D with a Woods BH6000 hoe. Hear a bang and then a grinding noise. Shut machine off immediately. After getting off and investigating, I notice a Major league oil leak under the tranny. Looking closer I find this:





That explains the leak...

Managed to get it in the garage and now the rebuild begins

Apparently, Woods doesn't make a subframe for the 5200 so it is mounted on the Saf-T-Hitch which, when there is any 'up' force on the hoe attachment ( ie. stabilizers) transfers all of the load to the tranny case. I am thinking about having a subframe fabbed to stengthen this up. Anybody else have this issue?

 

[Eric McCarthy]

This looks like a case of the outriggers being planted to far down and the assend of the tractor too far up in the air.

 

[3Ti]

You are more than likely correct Eric! The Stabs were definitely planted to keep the machine from walking. That is why I am going to have a subframe fabbed to stiffen the whole structure. In the mean time, I got the tranny out and on the bench. Gonna order parts tomorrow and begin the rebuild. 'I always wanted to fix a transmissione'

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Outriggers are put on the ground with enough force to keep the tractor still and the rear end a little stiff. If you bury the outriggers so that there's light under the tires then you have them planted to far down. Let the outriggers take the weight of the load and hold you still, not your tractor.

 

[3Ti]

Ok. Not the best grounding solution in my mind but... I like to plant the FEL face down and lift the front tires, then plant the outriggers to slightly lift the backend. That way, the entire machine is grounded and stable. To each his own, and I own this repair. Hopefully the subframe will prevent this from happening again. Thanks for the post!

 

[MagKarl]

Thanks for posting. 3 point BH's breaking tractors is almost an urban legend, everyone says it will happen, but very few real pics on the internet.

I think you are wise to go the subframe route. My BH came with part of a Woods subframe for an unknown tractor. I found Woods subframe installation manuals online for my model tractor and then built my own version. I don't see why you couldn't do the same, the missing link is how best to attach the tractor side brackets. I built the rear and then tied the front end of my subframe into my loader subframe. I made a simple rigid top link out of tubing and spherical ends. I have many days of hard digging on it and no problems whatsoever. It's a pin-on scheme using regular 5/8" trailer hitch pins and they all drop right into the holes, so nothing has bent yet. I think the Woods subframe approach from the old days was a good one, and it's pretty easy to replicate if you're so inclined.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

With the way your stabilizing the tractor. The loader and the outriggers are working double time, they have to not only support the weight of the tractor plus take the shock and abuse of digging with the hoe'. Not to come off sounding like an ass but the way you were holding the tractor still as you see broke the tractor in half.

Sometimes I've dug with the loader just hovering over the ground so if I wanted to move further back and dig more I could just pick up the outriggers and push myself with the boom and not have to turn around in the seat.

 

[MagKarl]

You have a loader and a backhoe Eric?

I don't use my backhoe to reposition the tractor unless I am stuck. Just yesterday I had to have my Dad drive while I worked with the hoe to get back out of a hole.

 

[MagKarl]

3TI, how long did it take you to remove the transmission? Were you able to get a new case, or are you going to repair that one? Please keep us posted on the repair and subframe project, and again, thanks for posting, we all learn from this.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

You have a loader and a backhoe Eric?

Not currently no, but a few years ago my dad had a full size Ford 555C backhoe and I used to run it alot for him.

I always used the boom to move the hoe' around and reposition, my comfort level was ok with it and I had experience doing it on level ground mind you.

 

[hodge]

Ok. Not the best grounding solution in my mind but... I like to plant the FEL face down and lift the front tires, then plant the outriggers to slightly lift the backend. That way, the entire machine is grounded and stable. To each his own, and I own this repair. Hopefully the subframe will prevent this from happening again. Thanks for the post!

That works fine on a backhoe, because the machine is engineered to handle those stresses. You can operate a full size backhoe all day long like that. Your tractor desperately needs a subframe; that is the best way to go when mounting a backhoe on a small tractor. Your tractor didn't fail, it succumbed to forces that were greater than it could handle. Some folks would find fault with your Kubota, but that would be unfair.
I have a friend with the mentality that if it breaks, it's because it was stupid and under engineered. He destroys everything he owns. My mentality is to understand the parameters in which something was engineered, and use it within those guidelines. It will survive to work another day.

 

[3Ti]

Hey all, thanks for all the positive comments! It took me about 3 nights to get the transmission off. I don't work fast on these types of projects because I am trying to keep track of everything. I really don't want any leftover parts at the end of this! Anyway, I ordered all new parts today, case, gaskets etc. After working on it tonight and starting the tranny disassembly, I found the source of the grinding noise when the 'event' took place. The first shaft outer bearing got in the way of a gear when the case separated and it has a gouge with bluing on the outer race. Also noticed that the first shaft gear has some major wear on the tooth faces so I told my better half that since I was in there I was going to get a new one of them too. I don't want to do this again! I am taking pictures of everything just so I can have a visual to reassemble. I did get the shop manual for this machine and that has been very helpful but in my opinion, a picture is worth a thousand words. They are all on photobucket, if anyone wants to see them, search on my username 'cttrp'

 

[3Ti]

They stuff a lot of hardware in there! The only other thing I found bad was the PTO shift fork shaft (front bottom in pic) was slightly bent from the case opening up the way it did, causing the fork to hang up. I might as well get one of them too while I am at it
Parts are ordered, should be here early next week!

 

[3Ti]

Hodge, you are definately correct, I exceeded the design spec for this and now I own it! It didn't fail, I broke it! I am trying to understand the dynamic so I can design and make a subframe which will transfer the upward load from the outriggers to somewhere forward of the transmission case so it is not seeing that bending load.

 

[3Ti]

New transmission! Well, rebuilt with a new case and parts. Ready to go back together!

 

[MagKarl]

Ooooh, Shiny! Nice work man.

Keep us posted on the subframe design and build.

 

[Kytim]

WoW, New case=$$$$ I bet.

nice job tho.

 

[hodge]

Nice work! Slow and steady wins the race. You do good work. make sure you post photos of your subframe as you work that out.
With the nice photo of a jug of UDT in the background, maybe Kubota will give you an endorsement... that could offset some of your costs...

 

[3Ti]

Thanks! Yeah, the UDT was from the last change but there was enough to lube the seals and stuff as it all went back together. It was a little more than $500 for the case. Brand new... I learned my lesson. Worth it in my mind for the amount of things we do around here with it. I will post again once I figure out the subframe. Not doing any more BH work without something hanging on to the back end and keeping this from happening again!