B3350

[smellslikediesel]

I live in northern Michigan and I have to crank the life out of the battery to get my new Kubota to start........B3350.....yes I give the glow plugs 30 sec.
had it back to the dealer 3 times last winter trying to get a cold start out of it ........ my 3year old bx 2350 starts on first revolution......
anyone else with a B3350 starting problem?????????
I would like to fatten up the fuel and see if that will help on the start-up so I can snow blow .........

 

[NEPA Guy]

I live in northern Michigan and I have to crank the life out of the battery to get my new Kubota to start........B3350.....yes I give the glow plugs 30 sec.
had it back to the dealer 3 times last winter trying to get a cold start out of it ........ my 3year old bx 2350 starts on first revolution......
anyone else with a B3350 starting problem?????????
I would like to fatten up the fuel and see if that will help on the start-up so I can snow blow .........

I had that problem. You should search the forums or google the issues that many of the 3350's are having. There was no fix.

They checked and changed the relays for the glo plugs thinking that would help. I also installed a block heater to try and remedy the hard starts. No help.

Mine was stalling out while blowing snow and failing the regens as well.

I even installed a garage heater to see if that would work. I had to trade mine in eventually.

 

[smellslikediesel]

thanks for the reply.... has anyone tried turning up the fuel pump??? can the fuel be turned up?

 

[tempforce]

not unless you can get the software and connectors, so that you can connect your laptop p.c. to the tractors computer and change the operating parameters.
with all of the engine management issues of the b3350. i wouldn't want to take any chance of messing up a good running machine. of course your unit isn't one of them. with your hard start issues.
my tractor started right away every time. just won't complete regens on a consistent basis.

 

[boz1989]

I don't have a lot of experience with turning up a diesel, but I don't think it will help your starting issue . if anything, it might make it start harder. Have you read about the problems with this series? If you haven't had problems, turning the fuel up is asking for trouble.
Just my opinion, no real experience.

Sent from my LGMS330 using Tapatalk

 

[smellslikediesel]

ok thanks for the input,,,, bad starting from day one....so I wanted to look at the flow rate and comparing it to non def. diesel was what I wanted to look at, possibly the 2601....is there a post detailing this test or any turning up the pump ?

 

[sheepfarmer]

ok thanks for the input,,,, bad starting from day one....so I wanted to look at the flow rate and comparing it to non def. diesel was what I wanted to look at, possibly the 2601....is there a post detailing this test or any turning up the pump ?

There hasn't been any thread here in which anyone has changed the pump output as far as I know. The B3350 engine has an unusual design with a 3 vortex globular mixing chamber. I would think the hard starting has something to do with that design and not the parts involved in the regeneration of the dpf filter, but maybe tney interact with each other in a complex way. I think the 2601 engine is more like the "traditional" design. The best way to find out some of the things you want to know is to download the free parts diagrams for each engine from the Kubota website or Messicks. Do you have the shop manual for your 3350? It would be interesting to read the sections that tell how that engine is "supposed" to function. Unfortunately WSM's are not free

 

[smellslikediesel]

yes, I agree with most of that, I will do the research if no one else has,,,, thanks again, I think the programming has leaned out the fuel to reduce emissions causing the slow starting

 

[sheepfarmer]

I was curious about the question you raised, and started to try to find out more about the engines (without getting off my tail in front of the tv which limits me to my tablet) and noticed that the b3350 and 2650 both have the three vortex engine according to the e brochure on the kubota website. Those e brochures have had mistakes before, but that would not support my theory if true. There seem to be a lot of people with the 2650s and no one has complained they are hard to start. So the engines to compare should include the 2650. Further browsing shows that engine now in the 2601, so I think my theory is all wet. I could have sworn it was unique to the 3350. Darn!

 

[smellslikediesel]

that's ok,,,,, that's how to get to the root of the problem...one step at a time....to be continued,

 

[CRB]

Well I live in Southern New Mexico. My problem is similar. Even when warm my 3350 is hard to start. It has less than 100 hrs. I am 75 miles from dealer who doesn't seem inclined to help. Mine will start but seems like on only one cylinder. I have to "assist" the engine with starter while running until it seems to run on two cylinders. This morning at 14 degrees it took 30 40 seconds of 'assist" before it would run on its own. I purchased this tractor New and was a lot of money for me. Wish I had watched Messicks 'top ten tractors you don't want to buy" before I got it. 3350 is top on that list. So much for kubota as a "top" brand

 

[lugbolt]

one thing worth mentioning is fuel

there is summer diesel and winter diesel

winter diesel starts a little easier than summer diesel, on a cold engine in cool air

so if you still have some leftover summer diesel in there, yes you're aggravating the issues.

B3350 was a thorn in every tech's side, and in the side of the kubota service reps as they had no fixes for a lot of the issues, only bandaids. My suggestion in 2017 to the area manager, ditch the B3350 from the lineup totally, it'll cost you more than it's worth. Unfortunately their marketing team didn't see it that way so they just kept pumping them out and then recalling them to put bandaids on them.

I look at the 3350 kinda like many looked at the 2003-2007 Ford pickups that sported the 6.0L diesel. They (kubota) should be buying the problem children back. I don't know why anyone hasn't started a class-action yet. They are well known. Not everyone has issues. Very similar to the Ford's. I actually liked the 6.0L (International VT365 engine) and how it was quieter, more powerful, peppier, than the outgoing 7.3 was (which I STILL own a 7.3 2003). I would have bought one if it weren't for the fact that the engine was notoriously and erratically unreliable, and I figured once it's outta warranty, unreliability is not anything I want from a pickup truck that sports a very expensive diesel engine. In fact, I'm done with diesel and my next one will be a gas burner.

 

[SDT]

Well I live in Southern New Mexico. My problem is similar. Even when warm my 3350 is hard to start. It has less than 100 hrs. I am 75 miles from dealer who doesn't seem inclined to help. Mine will start but seems like on only one cylinder. I have to "assist" the engine with starter while running until it seems to run on two cylinders. This morning at 14 degrees it took 30 40 seconds of 'assist" before it would run on its own. I purchased this tractor New and was a lot of money for me. Wish I had watched Messicks 'top ten tractors you don't want to buy" before I got it. 3350 is top on that list. So much for kubota as a "top" brand

My 2018 B3350 with about 65 hours starts exactly the same way. Slow to start in summer and "starts" on 1 or 2 when cold. Sometimes it will pick up and sometimes it will not and must be cranked again.

Very annoying for a new tractor but nothing compared to the regen issues.

Shame on Kubota.

SDT

 

[SDT]

one thing worth mentioning is fuel

there is summer diesel and winter diesel

winter diesel starts a little easier than summer diesel, on a cold engine in cool air

so if you still have some leftover summer diesel in there, yes you're aggravating the issues.

B3350 was a thorn in every tech's side, and in the side of the kubota service reps as they had no fixes for a lot of the issues, only bandaids. My suggestion in 2017 to the area manager, ditch the B3350 from the lineup totally, it'll cost you more than it's worth. Unfortunately their marketing team didn't see it that way so they just kept pumping them out and then recalling them to put bandaids on them.

I look at the 3350 kinda like many looked at the 2003-2007 Ford pickups that sported the 6.0L diesel. They (kubota) should be buying the problem children back. I don't know why anyone hasn't started a class-action yet. They are well known. Not everyone has issues. Very similar to the Ford's. I actually liked the 6.0L (International VT365 engine) and how it was quieter, more powerful, peppier, than the outgoing 7.3 was (which I STILL own a 7.3 2003). I would have bought one if it weren't for the fact that the engine was notoriously and erratically unreliable, and I figured once it's outta warranty, unreliability is not anything I want from a pickup truck that sports a very expensive diesel engine. In fact, I'm done with diesel and my next one will be a gas burner.

Not enough money for attorneys for a class action.

Of course Kubota did ditch the mechanical injected B3350 engine with reformer based emissions system for a common rail injected engine with emissions system similar to the other Kubota engines in the LX3310. Doing so is telling.

FWIW, I've cold started an LX3310 at my dealer and it lights right off as does my L6060 and M9960.

Shame on Kubota.

SDT

 

[whitetiger]

Well I live in Southern New Mexico. My problem is similar. Even when warm my 3350 is hard to start. It has less than 100 hrs. I am 75 miles from dealer who doesn't seem inclined to help. Mine will start but seems like on only one cylinder. I have to "assist" the engine with starter while running until it seems to run on two cylinders. This morning at 14 degrees it took 30 40 seconds of 'assist" before it would run on its own. I purchased this tractor New and was a lot of money for me. Wish I had watched Messicks 'top ten tractors you don't want to buy" before I got it. 3350 is top on that list. So much for kubota as a "top" brand

A large number of the B3350 units were sent out with the wrong Glow Plugs relay installed. Using a test light or voltmeter, put the ground on the battery negative post, the positive on the threaded stud on one of the glow plugs, and turn the key switch to the Glow position. You should have battery voltage at the glowplugs.
If you have low voltage or no voltage, check the Glow Plug Relay fuse in the fuse box. Also, unplug the Glow Plugs Relay ( Left side of the engine at the front of the plastic engine side cover), and look to see if it has all 4 terminals the same or if two are much larger than the other two. It should have the latter.
I have found the fuse blown because the relay is too light duty, and the plugs were not getting current at all.

 

[drewzee87t]

Timing is probably retarded to help emissions but I think retarded should = easier to start?

Might take a look into anything that might bleed down fuel overnight (air leaks in return lines), check that lift pump (I think it's electric on that one) is working.

I have heard of situations where the stop solenoid can stick partially closed but I doubt that. May be worth checking. If you are adventurous you could open the speed control cover and check your start spring. It could be disconnected or weak and not keeping the pump in "fuel" after it is shut off. Air in the system or the start spring not correctly working would make starting very difficult.

You can turn up the fuel but it would probably just foul up your filters and make more issues.

So - check for air leaks, lift pump, solenoid, check the start spring, and then check the timing and see if it is out of spec. And as mention, check your glow plugs are really working.

 

[SDT]

Timing is probably retarded to help emissions but I think retarded should = easier to start?

Might take a look into anything that might bleed down fuel overnight (air leaks in return lines), check that lift pump (I think it's electric on that one) is working.

I have heard of situations where the stop solenoid can stick partially closed but I doubt that. May be worth checking. If you are adventurous you could open the speed control cover and check your start spring. It could be disconnected or weak and not keeping the pump in "fuel" after it is shut off. Air in the system or the start spring not correctly working would make starting very difficult.

You can turn up the fuel but it would probably just foul up your filters and make more issues.

So - check for air leaks, lift pump, solenoid, check the start spring, and then check the timing and see if it is out of spec. And as mention, check your glow plugs are really working.

Checked my 2018 yesterday and all up to date as expected.

Updated relay, which can be heard to pull in when key turned to preheat and light comes on.

Nearly 10VDC at glow plug bus bar, which is about all that one could expect.

Cold here. Holding preheat longer than owners manual recommends does help but it does not start like my L6060 or M9960. More like my 1993 B1750.

Seems to be the nature of the beast.

SDT

 

[drewzee87t]

SDT maybe check that relay to the glows. Should be battery voltage. Did you check your start spring? I bet they would put a weak minded spring or figure out how to get rid of pre-fuel altogether to try to avoid a big burp of smoke on startup and save the planet some more.

 

[SDT]

SDT maybe check that relay to the glows. Should be battery voltage. Did you check your start spring? I bet they would put a weak minded spring or figure out how to get rid of pre-fuel altogether to try to avoid a big burp of smoke on startup and save the planet some more.

Relay is good. IIRC, it was checked/replaced during PDI as it had been a well known issue by 2018. Indeed, my 2018 model had been built with the updated relay.

Voltage to the glow plug bus bar of 9.5-10 VDC is about all one can expect due to voltage drop across the wiring harnesses, etc. The glow plug heating elements are low resistance and there are 4 in parallel.

I did find that holding the key in preheat for about twice the recommended time published in the Operator's Manual helps.

SDT

 

[Henro]

Voltage to the glow plug bus bar of 9.5-10 VDC is about all one can expect due to voltage drop across the wiring harnesses, etc. The glow plug heating elements are low resistance and there are 4 in parallel.

SDT

I thought I read that glow plugs usually have a voltage rating that is lower than battery voltage. So I was surprised when Whitetiger said the voltage on the glow plugs should be battery voltage, or close to it.

Point to check the glow plugs and verify the rated operating voltage is a good one. Heat generated is proportional to the square of the applied voltage. 10 volts on a 12 volt glow plug would produce roughly 44 percent less heat. (this is because heat produced is a function of the square of the voltage applied)(for a 1 ohm glow plug, that would be 100 vs 144 watts)

As far as voltage drop in the wiring supplying the glow plugs being 2 to 3 volts, in my opinion if that were the case the electrical engineer who sized the wiring should be doing other work. Unless of course, the drop is by design, but that is often accomplished by inserting a resistor in series with the glow plugs.

These two things leave me scratching my head...