B2710 Completely dead/ no power ... HELP!
- Thread starter ETXKubota
- Start date
Thanks for the link and the diagram, Kenny. But I've already got a digital copy of the WSM saved and have been pouring over it. As I said before, having a digital copy is great, but I like having paper in my hands. I'm thinking of getting a printed copy just so I can have it on hand while I'm working. It also helps to be able to write notes and part numbers on pages as I work on things.
This issue will have to be put on the back burner until later this week. I've got to work for the next couple days, then Christmas, then work some more. Some replacement parts will be here later in the week ... I'm really hoping that will help. In the meantime, when I have a chance, I'll try to cover all the wiring to make sure there's nothing worn or burnt.
Been a minute since I've been able to work on the tractor ... been out of town and working ... but I was able to get a new starter unit in and on the tractor. This is NOT fixed the "dead" issue.
I'm quickly narrowing this down to a short somewhere in the system. I'm intermittently getting lights on the dash when I turn the key to "on", but I can't turn the key to "pre-heat" without the dash lights going completely out. Then when I try the key again, nothing, absolutely nothing. The next day when I come back, I may or may not get dash lights again. This thing is eating my lunch ... it's a simple enough system and I simply can not figure it out for the life of me. To add to the ordeal, I ordered a new starter relay component as this is kind of acting like a relay going bad. It was ordered on the 22nd .... I had to call for two weeks before someone answered the phone and told me "oh yeah ... its ... uh ... going out today." That was on Monday the 5th.
Hoping someone will see this/ reread it and have an ah-ha moment ... maybe ....
I'm quickly narrowing this down to a short somewhere in the system. I'm intermittently getting lights on the dash when I turn the key to "on", but I can't turn the key to "pre-heat" without the dash lights going completely out. Then when I try the key again, nothing, absolutely nothing. The next day when I come back, I may or may not get dash lights again. This thing is eating my lunch ... it's a simple enough system and I simply can not figure it out for the life of me. To add to the ordeal, I ordered a new starter relay component as this is kind of acting like a relay going bad. It was ordered on the 22nd .... I had to call for two weeks before someone answered the phone and told me "oh yeah ... its ... uh ... going out today." That was on Monday the 5th.
Hoping someone will see this/ reread it and have an ah-ha moment ... maybe ....
North Idaho Wolfman
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Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Disconnect the small solenoid wire on the starter, jump the terminal to the positive wire on the starter, does it crank?
If it doesn't you have either a bad positive connection/cable, or a bad negative cable/connection, or a bad ground to the starter.
More info upon answers.
If it doesn't you have either a bad positive connection/cable, or a bad negative cable/connection, or a bad ground to the starter.
More info upon answers.
BY doing this, am I bypassing the 3x safety switches? Thanks.Disconnect the small solenoid wire on the starter, jump the terminal to the positive wire on the starter, does it crank?
If it doesn't you have either a bad positive connection/cable, or a bad negative cable/connection, or a bad ground to the starter.
More info upon answers.
When I try to jump it from the + starter term, I don't get anything. However, when I run a wire from the + battery term to the small solenoid tab it clicks but doesn't start.Disconnect the small solenoid wire on the starter, jump the terminal to the positive wire on the starter, does it crank?
If it doesn't you have either a bad positive connection/cable, or a bad negative cable/connection, or a bad ground to the starter.
More info upon answers.
North Idaho Wolfman
Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Bad Positive cable or connection, no other choice!
Or huge long shot, you have cables connected incorrectly to the starter, Picture of the connections?
At this point in time and money investment, bite the bullet and start over using a voltmeter (not a test light) and a fully charged known good battery. Take the time and have the battery tested, so you know you have a good base to start with. DO NOT ASSUME ANYTHING AT THIS POINT IN TIME!
If not familiar with a voltage drop test using a voltmeter, do an internet search and watch a video or two. The advantage to this test is the circuit is under load and is stressing every electrical joint within the circuit. It is very possible for a circuit to have continuity but cannot handle the current load.
Start at the battery and move to either of the two circuits indicated in the wiring diagram posted earlier (starter and circuit thru slow burn fuse). Either one or both of these circuits can have an issue.
You should be able to find the problem rather quickly using this technique.
General idea of a voltage drop test.
Place one voltmeter lead on battery post itself (not the clamp) and place the other lead on the starter post as an example. There should be zero volts at this point. Now have an assistant turn the key to start while watching the reading on the voltmeter. Ideally it should be zero, as in no energy loss in the wiring. If however a voltage is indicated, this means something within the circuit is resisting current flow causing a voltage differential to occur. Move the probe to different points along the circuit until the suspect joint(s) is found. Correct the issue, retest and verify the voltage drop improved.
Keep in mind that from the battery there are many electrical joints and any one of them could be at fault including the often overlooked ground. Don't overlook the wire to terminal connection itself by assume the crimp connection to be good. Remove the terminal from the plastic housing if necessary to investigate.
Good luck.
Added in edit:
I wanted to add my guess as to the problem...
I'm with wolfman on the positive cable, but will add the portion to thru the slow burn fuse.
If not familiar with a voltage drop test using a voltmeter, do an internet search and watch a video or two. The advantage to this test is the circuit is under load and is stressing every electrical joint within the circuit. It is very possible for a circuit to have continuity but cannot handle the current load.
Start at the battery and move to either of the two circuits indicated in the wiring diagram posted earlier (starter and circuit thru slow burn fuse). Either one or both of these circuits can have an issue.
You should be able to find the problem rather quickly using this technique.
General idea of a voltage drop test.
Place one voltmeter lead on battery post itself (not the clamp) and place the other lead on the starter post as an example. There should be zero volts at this point. Now have an assistant turn the key to start while watching the reading on the voltmeter. Ideally it should be zero, as in no energy loss in the wiring. If however a voltage is indicated, this means something within the circuit is resisting current flow causing a voltage differential to occur. Move the probe to different points along the circuit until the suspect joint(s) is found. Correct the issue, retest and verify the voltage drop improved.
Keep in mind that from the battery there are many electrical joints and any one of them could be at fault including the often overlooked ground. Don't overlook the wire to terminal connection itself by assume the crimp connection to be good. Remove the terminal from the plastic housing if necessary to investigate.
Good luck.
Added in edit:
I wanted to add my guess as to the problem...
I'm with wolfman on the positive cable, but will add the portion to thru the slow burn fuse.
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Already taken it to the house for the evening. Pretty sure I've got everything connected correctly since all I did was put everything back where I found it. Plus I was having the issues before I swapped out the starter.
I'm going to get new cables in the morning. I also started making 10g grounding wires to run from a grounding block I plan on installing on the firewall. Working on old Jeeps, they're notorious for having bad grounds. I've found nice power/ grounding blocks at the junk yards off mid-90s S-10s and Blazers. I should have done this a long time ago, but the tractor was running fine then. ... lesson learned ... always, always, always work on improving your position.
I've gone over things previously with a voltmeter, but part of my situation is I don't have a second pair of hands to help me. When I checked things before I always seemed to have good voltage, but something has to be dropping or shorting when the key is turned.At this point in time and money investment, bite the bullet and start over using a voltmeter (not a test light) and a fully charged known good battery. Take the time and have the battery tested, so you know you have a good base to start with. DO NOT ASSUME ANYTHING AT THIS POINT IN TIME!
If not familiar with a voltage drop test using a voltmeter, do an internet search and watch a video or two. The advantage to this test is the circuit is under load and is stressing every electrical joint within the circuit. It is very possible for a circuit to have continuity but cannot handle the current load.
Start at the battery and move to either of the two circuits indicated in the wiring diagram posted earlier (starter and circuit thru slow burn fuse). Either one or both of these circuits can have an issue.
You should be able to find the problem rather quickly using this technique.
General idea of a voltage drop test.
Place one voltmeter lead on battery post itself (not the clamp) and place the other lead on the starter post as an example. There should be zero volts at this point. Now have an assistant turn the key to start while watching the reading on the voltmeter. Ideally it should be zero, as in no energy loss in the wiring. If however a voltage is indicated, this means something within the circuit is resisting current flow causing a voltage differential to occur. Move the probe to different points along the circuit until the suspect joint(s) is found. Correct the issue, retest and verify the voltage drop improved.
Keep in mind that from the battery there are many electrical joints and any one of them could be at fault including the often overlooked ground. Don't overlook the wire to terminal connection itself by assume the crimp connection to be good. Remove the terminal from the plastic housing if necessary to investigate.
Good luck.
Added in edit:
I wanted to add my guess as to the problem...
I'm with wolfman on the positive cable, but will add the portion to thru the slow burn fuse.
Tomorrow is another day. I'm done with being frustrated for today.
I understand you pain as I'm often in the same situation. Purchase or make up longer leads with clamps on them. (I made my own extensions for the leads using different size alligator clamps)
If making up ground straps, solder the terminal to the wire if possible.
Guys ... I can't say thank you enough. I got her started. It was the battery cables. I'll make my own, better cables later, but I picked up some cheaper cables at the auto store this morning just to check. I also bought some more 10g wire and weatherproof loop terminals to make dedicated grounding wires to various locations. The new cables worked. ... As I'd said before, I knew better than to chase an issue. After working on old Jeeps for years, I knew to check grounds and power supplies first. Even if you think they're good, check them a fourth time. Oh well, I've got an almost brand new starting system in the tractor plus some spare parts at least, HAHA!
Just an FYI for others ... systems like these thrive on grounds. Having a dedicated grounding block to feed dedicated grounding wires to places like lights, the starter, etc is critical. Otherwise, you're relying 100% on the ONE connection from the battery to the frame.
I joined this site seeking help and I definitely got it. Thank y'all so much. I really appreciate it. ... I'll keep lurking (and learning). ... Now to get some much needed work done!
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Thanks 200. I was convinced it had to be something else, a defective part ... but once I went back to the basics it all made since. Thanks again, sir.