B2401DT

[DS524]

To be fair, my HST experience is largely newer machines, my gear driven experience older machines. No doubt newer gear machines are nicer to drive. To me it's not the shifting, no different than driving a manual car. It's the stopping to shift, or double declutching (if you can even do that on a tractor), and the fact that I often creep my tractor into small spaces, and I hate the thought of riding the clutch to do that. The HST pedal on my B2601 is quite stiff, and gives my knee a bit of a hard time. I'd imagine the clutch would be worse, but neither are good.

The cruise on my B2601 appears useless. I wouldn't use that as a deciding factor. I can't get it to lock in at full speed, it always runs a bit slower than you set it, and even mowing on the large field I mow it's never flat enough to run constant speed anyway, so a bit of a waste of time. Maybe on the road, but even then I'm dubious.

The tilt steering is kinda nice, but the lever for it is in a stupid place so you kick it every time you get on and off. I assume it's made for people with a large belly who put the wheel up every time they get off, then readjust when they get on.

In NZ we don't get the single lever manifold for the FEL. I really wish I had it, I was waiting for it and the Kubota rep in NZ said they're choosing not to import it, they think NZers wouldn't pay extra for it (apparently it's $500-600 extra on the wholesale cost). I curse every time I taket he loader off, the pioneer couplers are in an inconvenient place and one in particular is sticky and hard to get on. I graze my hands if I don't wear gloves, and if I wear gloves I get hydraulic fluid on them so they slip and I can't get enough grip to push them one. It all sucks. The single lever is worth it if that's not on the B2401 (you definitely want the FEL off when mowing if you can).

You'll also want the quick attach bucket (SSQA). Because you need forks and/or a grapple. If it's the grapple you need, you'll need third function. I have a pin on bucket (again, apparently NZers are too cheap to ever want a quick attach, so they don't import them). It's a real pain to switch bucket for forks, but I can't easily take the FEL off with the forks on (you can't crowd it to lift the wheels, as the forks are folding). I'm waiting for the pin-on quick attach, but it has to be special ordered and for some reason my dealer finds that to be complex and/or hard, and still hasn't done it for me.

Usual question on BH. Are you sure? I'd personally like one but I already know I don't have enough use for one. I had Dad's mini-ex for 8 months, and hardly used it, and that was when I had a lot of excavator type work. Now that we're done with building the tractor shed I only have the occasional hole to dig, and they're small enough I can dig with a spade quicker than i could put a backhoe on.

Thanks for all the feedback. I didn't know New Zealanders were so cheap. I only sorta know one guy there from an old car forum I'm active on and he never struck me as such.

I did see, but had forgotten about the tilt lever location being poorly positioned - Good point. In my truck & car I think I have the tilt set at what would m/l be the non-tilt position so unless that position is overly uncomfortable or awkward it's not a concern. I'm not (too) fat (& losing weight) so not worried about that aspect & definitely wouldn't expect to be using cruise much if ever.

The single point hydraulic connector does come on the B2401 (I think it's part of the Swift-tach LA435 loader pkg.). Supposedly one can double clutch or shift match on a gear drive. I can shift match in my truck. I definitely see the point for fine/close quarters use & even for FEL work that the HST would be the better choice vs. having to stop to go into a lower gear &/or ride the clutch (which I'd avoid - I'm very easy on clutches). L1 is super slow and LR even slower. I just don't think that'll bother me but I could be wrong and it might get old. Only time will tell and I may get on it for the test drive and immediately know that it's just not going to be practical as much as I want it. I am curious to see how stiff the clutch & throttle pedals are especially when compared to the treadle pedal. I've plowed snow w/a manual transmission pickup & my left knee got a workout & was sore but that was after 20+ hours straight & it wasn't at all objectionable. I actually liked the process & never felt like I abused clutch & that also requires some intricate work around cars, buildings, etc. - I'd have to put it in 4 low sometimes for such work (non-synchro) & it never fazed me. The fact that the PTO cuts out when depressing the clutch is a little concerning but maybe it's not really an issue. That is where my lack of experience is a problem.

Definitely was planning on a SSQA (don't like how much loader capacity it uses) as I definitely want a grapple & forks. Oddly, the "build your own" on Kubota's site used to have the factory 3rd function option listed for all the B01's but no longer does for any of them. It's a question I have for the dealer. They have much more detailed information wrt options. There's also a lighting option shown for the B2301/B2601 that's not shown for the B2401 & that seems odd. Hopefully an oversight on both issues.

I'm 100% sure on the BH. I realize it's the type of thing you won't use everyday but can't imagine not getting one. I almost bought an older used BX a couple years ago (a friend's father was moving to a retirement community - Low hours and super clean) and I immediately looked into what it would take/cost to add a BH (I was a bit surprised how much so was already prepared when looking into it now). I have a few projects on my property I need it for and as much as I see TTWT use it on jobs I'm sure I'd regret not getting it & I expect it to pay for itself although I'd still get it regardless. I also foresee using it as a mobile crane as much if not more than as BH around the house. I always have heavy stuff to pick up & will definitely be adding a hook for a chain onto the bucket - might even be the 1st mod I do. I've seen them used so many times for that on construction sites. A friend of mine got a new JD several years ago and the very 1st project he used it on was digging a rather long trench w/the BH to run power to a building although I could see a PTO trencher being a pretty useful attachment.

 

[Oliver]

I did notice the difference in weight as well so yes, good points on the need to add weight. Weight hanging off the back is seemingly more effective but good point on the unsprung vs. loading/excess wear on the axle. Wheel weights and juice will be in order....

Definitely more effective. Actually the rear axle is robust it's the small front axle when using the FEL one needs to be concerned about. Picture lifting the bucket filled with stone, the rear wheels may actually leave the ground or have so little weight on them they spin. The entire weight (tractor, loader, and the load of stone) is balanced on the small front axle. Since the rear wheels have almost no traction and spin you have to use 4wd further stressing the front gears and the steering components. Adding wheel weights or liquid doesn't relieve this weight from the front axle it only makes the rear heavier, which at least may keep the rear wheels on the ground. I guess then the question becomes do you want weighted wheels/tires in addition to rear ballast?

 

[DS524]

Definitely more effective. Actually the rear axle is robust it's the small front axle when using the FEL one needs to be concerned about. Picture lifting the bucket filled with stone, the rear wheels may actually leave the ground or have so little weight on them they spin. The entire weight (tractor, loader, and the load of stone) is balanced on the small front axle. Since the rear wheels have almost no traction and spin you have to use 4wd further stressing the front gears and the steering components. Adding wheel weights or liquid doesn't relieve this weight from the front axle it only makes the rear heavier, which at least may keep the rear wheels on the ground. I guess then the question becomes do you want weighted wheels/tires in addition to rear ballast?

Seems both would be in order. I would hope Kubota's engineers designed that front axle to take the use/abuse you described but...

Being new here, do you know if there are known B01 front axle issues (I can search if not)?

 

[jbolt001]

The clutch pedal is not stiff on the B2401. My wife has no trouble with it. She did not like the treadle pedal on the HST. If the wife is going to be driving it have her test drive as well. I got the stink eye when I first brought up getting a new tractor. After using it the first two days and seeing the versatility of it she was totally on board with the decision though now she wants a new riding mower.

With a gear drive you are always in cruise mode. There are two throttles on the B2401. The lever which sets a fixed rpm and a small foot pedal which allows you to increase the rpm over the set point. The peddle is positioned next to the break peddles to where you can heel/toe when doing fine loader work which is really nice. For loader work I set the rpm around 1200 and then use the peddle when more rpm is needed. You will use the clutch a lot when doing loader work. Hard to avoid. Having the foot throttle helps. Clutch longevity was my biggest concern when considering the B2401 knowing I would probably be doing a 50/50 split on loader vs ground work. I do my own service work so not having to take it to a dealer for service was factored in. We have 1700 ft. of private road and 500 ft. of driveway that needs to be dressed 3-4 times a year so the gear drive is perfect for that.

Shifting on the fly is possible with double clutching but I rarely find myself doing that. I mostly pick the gear for the task and go.

The quick connect does come with the LA435 loader. It is a must have. Takes 30 seconds to remove or re-attach. The SSQA is also a must have.

My guess with the B2401 being a new model options will come based on demand. I plan on installing my own hydraulics for the front and rear remotes.

 

[River19]

Honestly, I love the HST on my B2601.

Clearly there are others that are vocal about not liking HST. I also think some of that is they are used to what they are used to and there is also some "personal preference justification" wrapped in there. I personally couldn't imagine what a PITA doing the loader work I have done would be with a non syncro geared 2401, let alone the snowblowing I have done with the 2601 this season.

I certainly can't argue with people that don't like the ergonomics of the pedal but I am captain average for size ....5'11" 190lbs 9.5 boot....with Muck Boots with YakTrax on I have had very little issue with the pedal.....

I used to be old school with cars and preferred a manual transmission for many years as Auto's sucked......today's autos are light years ahead of manuals in many ways.......things have progressed, today's HST with the 3 H, M, L options is perfect for that B01 IMHO.

 

[Oliver]

Seems both would be in order. I would hope Kubota's engineers designed that front axle to take the use/abuse you described but...

Being new here, do you know if there are known B01 front axle issues (I can search if not)?

Both could be in order if you always want the extra weight. Some instances you might not could be when mowing and you don't want to compact your lawn you could simply remove the loader and ballast box. Removing wheel weights may be a little more involved. Or if you have a big rear mower or rotary cutter hanging off the back, offset by the FEL and bucket, your 25hp engine may not want the extra 300# of liquid in the tires when mowing up a grade.

I'm not aware of front axle issues on B01 (or any Kubotas). But using a loader without counter balance will over time contribute to leaking axle seals, worn steering components, etc. I was first told this by a mechanic at a Deere dealer who was rebuilding the front axle components on a CUT. It comes up here on this forum from time to time as well.

What is "Rear Ballast"? And why do you need it?

Let me start by saying that this subject is often hotly debated. It is my intention to provide what I believe to be facts, and I will back them up by providing links and references when possible. It is not my intention to cause any controversy or flame wars. A few definitions from the...

www.orangetractortalks.com

Personally I haven't had the need to remove my loader because I use it more than anything else. And when I have the rear blade, rake, or flail mower on it helps offset their weight. When not using them I have the ballast box on. I could leave one of the rear implements on but the ballast box is smaller, less cumbersome, and was only $300 delivered. Plus it holds my shovel and rake. And with the quickhitch changing them is easy. I don't have filled tires and thankfully I didn't on my previous tractor when I had to deal with a punctured tire on two occasions. Knocking on wood I'm hoping I don't have any more punctures.

 

[PaulL]

I think I recall you saying 1 acre of nice grass to mow? If so, you'll want BH and FEL off for mowing. Honestly, it's way more pleasant mowing without that weight, the tractor feels nicer. A BH should be plenty of counterweight - if you're mostly using the loader and BH at the same time, then you won't need loaded tyres. I wouldn't load them if I were you, I find a ballast box to be plenty of counter balance, you can make them as heavy as you like (to the point where the front wheels are off the ground). Different people have different opinions on weighting, but personally I'm not in favour of loaded tyres - makes your tractor always heavy (can't remove it when you want), and a pain if you take the wheels off for any reason.

I use my FEL as my crane. I guess a BH can do it too, but I feel like the FEL is more versatile. I guess it depends what you're lifting and where you're putting it.

The SSQA does lose loader capacity. I don't think it makes any difference when you're using the bucket - it still lifts a full bucket of most anything, and actually getting a full bucket is harder than it looks - my bucket is usually 3/4 full even when I'm trying hard. The pile is never straight enough or I just get the angle wrong, or the pile has lumps in it that tips some stuff out.

So mostly I'm limited in capacity when using it as a crane, and usually I'm using chains for that. I wanted an SSQA, and my plan was to put the chain hooks directly on the SSQA plate, not on the bucket (perhaps on the back, I haven't had one to look at, or perhaps make a special SSQA plate up with no bucket and just chain hooks). Not having the bucket on gives you all that capacity back. Of course, I think forks or a grapple are more likely to be on when you're using chains....and they also rob quite a bit of capacity. Honestly, however much you can lift you'll want more, but you start getting quite inventive at how to roll things, use a pulley, or lever them in different ways to deal with capacity limits.

I think most people don't use the factory lights - I think they're not LEDs so there are better after market lights and not hard to wire up yourself. I wired a sprayer switch into mine using the work light circuit, so I know it's there on the B2601, I assume it's also there on the B2401.

 

[Tractor Beamer]

Hey guys, thought I'd give an update to this thread (I'm the OP). First off, lots of great knowledge shared and I appreciate that.

I reevaluated my needs and priorities and decided against getting the gear drive B2401. Initially I was going to step up to the B2601 but couldn't find one locally with R14 tires. I then also considered the LX2610SU and L2501 and gave up on the idea of needing a mid PTO and mowing with a belly mower. My primary need is clearing and maintaining a heavily wooded 5 acres....so with that in mind I just signed the papers on a hydrostat L2501. Super pumped to get it but unfortunately because if the holiday weekend they can't deliver it until next week. As far as options go I got the SSQA loader / bucket and 60" back blade. They are filling the tires and installing a block heater for me as well. I plan on getting some HLA forks and a SpeeCo quick hitch from a different dealer here shortly, probably from Good Works Tractor, since he is sort of local to me.

Anyways, thanks for all the advice guys! I'll post pics when the new toy arrives.

 

[DS524]

Both could be in order if you always want the extra weight. Some instances you might not could be when mowing and you don't want to compact your lawn you could simply remove the loader and ballast box. Removing wheel weights may be a little more involved. Or if you have a big rear mower or rotary cutter hanging off the back, offset by the FEL and bucket, your 25hp engine may not want the extra 300# of liquid in the tires when mowing up a grade.

I'm not aware of front axle issues on B01 (or any Kubotas). But using a loader without counter balance will over time contribute to leaking axle seals, worn steering components, etc. I was first told this by a mechanic at a Deere dealer who was rebuilding the front axle components on a CUT. It comes up here on this forum from time to time as well.

What is "Rear Ballast"? And why do you need it?

Let me start by saying that this subject is often hotly debated. It is my intention to provide what I believe to be facts, and I will back them up by providing links and references when possible. It is not my intention to cause any controversy or flame wars. A few definitions from the...

www.orangetractortalks.com

Personally I haven't had the need to remove my loader because I use it more than anything else. And when I have the rear blade, rake, or flail mower on it helps offset their weight. When not using them I have the ballast box on. I could leave one of the rear implements on but the ballast box is smaller, less cumbersome, and was only $300 delivered. Plus it holds my shovel and rake. And with the quickhitch changing them is easy. I don't have filled tires and thankfully I didn't on my previous tractor when I had to deal with a punctured tire on two occasions. Knocking on wood I'm hoping I don't have any more punctures.

Good points - Thanks! I'm torn on the tire fill & wheel weights but plan on a ballast box or hanging weights on the quick hitch (the idea of using the ballast box for tools is good). Will read the thread on rear ballast. I know it's important & definitely want to unload the front axle as much as poss. for FEL work. Not too worried about my own lawn & don't expect to be mowing for any customers but I also don't want to be damaging their lawns any more than necessary.

 

[DS524]

I think I recall you saying 1 acre of nice grass to mow? If so, you'll want BH and FEL off for mowing. Honestly, it's way more pleasant mowing without that weight, the tractor feels nicer. A BH should be plenty of counterweight - if you're mostly using the loader and BH at the same time, then you won't need loaded tyres. I wouldn't load them if I were you, I find a ballast box to be plenty of counter balance, you can make them as heavy as you like (to the point where the front wheels are off the ground). Different people have different opinions on weighting, but personally I'm not in favour of loaded tyres - makes your tractor always heavy (can't remove it when you want), and a pain if you take the wheels off for any reason.

I use my FEL as my crane. I guess a BH can do it too, but I feel like the FEL is more versatile. I guess it depends what you're lifting and where you're putting it.

The SSQA does lose loader capacity. I don't think it makes any difference when you're using the bucket - it still lifts a full bucket of most anything, and actually getting a full bucket is harder than it looks - my bucket is usually 3/4 full even when I'm trying hard. The pile is never straight enough or I just get the angle wrong, or the pile has lumps in it that tips some stuff out.

So mostly I'm limited in capacity when using it as a crane, and usually I'm using chains for that. I wanted an SSQA, and my plan was to put the chain hooks directly on the SSQA plate, not on the bucket (perhaps on the back, I haven't had one to look at, or perhaps make a special SSQA plate up with no bucket and just chain hooks). Not having the bucket on gives you all that capacity back. Of course, I think forks or a grapple are more likely to be on when you're using chains....and they also rob quite a bit of capacity. Honestly, however much you can lift you'll want more, but you start getting quite inventive at how to roll things, use a pulley, or lever them in different ways to deal with capacity limits.

I think most people don't use the factory lights - I think they're not LEDs so there are better after market lights and not hard to wire up yourself. I wired a sprayer switch into mine using the work light circuit, so I know it's there on the B2601, I assume it's also there on the B2401.

Thanks - I don't even have an acre to mow & it's not that nice. I'm thinking 54" MMM although the difference bet. that and a 60" seems negligible. Honestly for my property a B01 is arguably too big but I want something slightly larger than a 1025R, which is already larger than a BX and I really like all the B01's "real tractor" features. First time I saw a B01 in person it seemed exactly the size I was looking for. I like some of the 2025R's features (only one I've seen in person had a cab) as well but they're more appearance/convenience IMHO & I'm willing to give them up for function. I also like how focused Kubota is on this market whereas it seems like more of an afterthought for Deere.

I wouldn't mow with the FEL or BH w/the layout of my property. It'll already be tight in places & there are patches I'll still have to push mow. I just don't know if I'd like the heavier feel of loaded &/or weighted tires or not. Some seem to & some not. I guess wheel weights would tell me if I like the feel or not w/o actually filling the tires. Depending on the job, the BH might just get in the way when using FEL.

Definitely a good point on using the FEL as a crane w/o the bucket. For what I foresee lifting the added degrees of freedom of motion that the BH allows I think will be of be of tremendous use but yes, I'd also foresee using the FEL as a crane too. TBH, for around my own property I can see using the tractor more for lifting & moving stuff around than anything & is a large reason for me wanting one.

 

[Stringy]

I just got a B2401dt and have put 9hrs on it 90% FEL work. In the first couple hrs I thought I really messed up and bought the wrong tractor. And my dealer experience has been very disappointing but that is a whole other topic.. But after getting used to it I'm not as worried with buyer remorse. I wanted the gear drive over HST because of the whine and limited power while using pto and climbing hills.
I got the mmm for it but haven't used it yet. I am concerned about usability of the mmm with the pto being transmission driven and the clutch not being 2 stage. Every time you stop to change gears or back up the pto stops/starts with clutch engagement. My mower deck was on back order and that is the only pto implement I own so I didn't realize it right away. I'm worried it's going to be a PITA to mow with.
However the clutch is comparable to a Honda civic in easy to push.
Using the 54in box blade is no problem, you can fill it up and it keeps pulling like it don't know it's working. With the gear drive constant speed and torque is effortless. You can set the gear ease out on the clutch and just work the 3point with ease. I would also say turning to the side overlooking the 3point is easier with the flat floor and no treadle pedal.
When using the FEL and everything else I'm in Median range. I do however change from Med. To Low before going into a pile with the bucket. It's so low geared you have plenty of speed control to load the bucket full. Once full I clutch, reverse, medium then off to where ever I need to go with the full bucket. It has no problem filling the 60" bucket either.
Rear ballast is lacking even with the 54" box blade so I strapped an arms box on the box blade and filled it full of chain. That made it very stable. Any questions about it I'd be happy to help. Oh 9.5 hrs on the first tank of fuel and I'm at 3/8 of a tank. I plan on running to E to see how long a tank last.

 

[El Jefe]

I have almost 100 hours on my B2401 now and almost all of that is doing loader work. Unlike jbolt001 I have never confused the loader control for the shifter and most of the time I like their proximity to each other. As for the comments about the HST being better for slow controlled operation I completely disagree. 1st gear in low range on the B2401 is lower than any tractor I've operated. Its under 1 MPH at max RPM and a fraction of that at low RPM. I find myself shifting the range selector more and more-running second gear M range for transport and if I need to run slow, I just shift into L range. Its really nice to have the 3 ranges. Also, another big plus to the gear drive I've mentioned before is the ability to operate at lower RPM. Hydrostatic transmissions really need to be operated at higher engine RPM or they generate excessive heat. For loader work I generally run around 1400 RPM and if I need more power or speed I just step on the foot throttle briefly then return to a lower RPM. Running the lower RPM has multiple advantages-its MUCH quieter plus the loader controls are much slower and easier to operate with precision. Your HST won't be happy doing heavy work at 1400 RPM. If you prefer a manual car go for the B2401. I don't think its an ideal lawn mower but if you have no prior tractor experience you'll learn and you won't know any differently.

I'd add that I do ultimately plan on mowing with my B2401. I will pick up a 48" flail mower, I only have a half acre of grass but I find that 3PH implements are very handy to take on/off and a flail takes up a lot less space in the shop and they do a great job mulching. I'm in California so mowing is an ordeal that only happens a few times a year.

One think you should think about is the need for ballast on any of these tractors is real if you're doing any heavy loader work. I move logs constantly and frequently lift at the limit of the loader. I have loaded tires (no idea why you wouldn't) and even with my 600lb chipper (heaviest 3PH implement I own) its still light in the rear. If I could get 1000lbs back there I would.

 

[River19]

I have almost 100 hours on my B2401 now and almost all of that is doing loader work. Unlike jbolt001 I have never confused the loader control for the shifter and most of the time I like their proximity to each other. As for the comments about the HST being better for slow controlled operation I completely disagree. 1st gear in low range on the B2401 is lower than any tractor I've operated. Its under 1 MPH at max RPM and a fraction of that at low RPM. I find myself shifting the range selector more and more-running second gear M range for transport and if I need to run slow, I just shift into L range. Its really nice to have the 3 ranges. Also, another big plus to the gear drive I've mentioned before is the ability to operate at lower RPM. Hydrostatic transmissions really need to be operated at higher engine RPM or they generate excessive heat. For loader work I generally run around 1400 RPM and if I need more power or speed I just step on the foot throttle briefly then return to a lower RPM. Running the lower RPM has multiple advantages-its MUCH quieter plus the loader controls are much slower and easier to operate with precision. Your HST won't be happy doing heavy work at 1400 RPM. If you prefer a manual car go for the B2401. I don't think its an ideal lawn mower but if you have no prior tractor experience you'll learn and you won't know any differently.

I'd add that I do ultimately plan on mowing with my B2401. I will pick up a 48" flail mower, I only have a half acre of grass but I find that 3PH implements are very handy to take on/off and a flail takes up a lot less space in the shop and they do a great job mulching. I'm in California so mowing is an ordeal that only happens a few times a year.

One think you should think about is the need for ballast on any of these tractors is real if you're doing any heavy loader work. I move logs constantly and frequently lift at the limit of the loader. I have loaded tires (no idea why you wouldn't) and even with my 600lb chipper (heaviest 3PH implement I own) its still light in the rear. If I could get 1000lbs back there I would.

Good post, and good take from the perspective of a manual geared preference, solid points and I appreciate the perspective.

 

[DS524]

I just got a B2401dt and have put 9hrs on it 90% FEL work. In the first couple hrs I thought I really messed up and bought the wrong tractor. And my dealer experience has been very disappointing but that is a whole other topic.. But after getting used to it I'm not as worried with buyer remorse. I wanted the gear drive over HST because of the whine and limited power while using pto and climbing hills.
I got the mmm for it but haven't used it yet. I am concerned about usability of the mmm with the pto being transmission driven and the clutch not being 2 stage. Every time you stop to change gears or back up the pto stops/starts with clutch engagement. My mower deck was on back order and that is the only pto implement I own so I didn't realize it right away. I'm worried it's going to be a PITA to mow with.
However the clutch is comparable to a Honda civic in easy to push.
Using the 54in box blade is no problem, you can fill it up and it keeps pulling like it don't know it's working. With the gear drive constant speed and torque is effortless. You can set the gear ease out on the clutch and just work the 3point with ease. I would also say turning to the side overlooking the 3point is easier with the flat floor and no treadle pedal.
When using the FEL and everything else I'm in Median range. I do however change from Med. To Low before going into a pile with the bucket. It's so low geared you have plenty of speed control to load the bucket full. Once full I clutch, reverse, medium then off to where ever I need to go with the full bucket. It has no problem filling the 60" bucket either.
Rear ballast is lacking even with the 54" box blade so I strapped an arms box on the box blade and filled it full of chain. That made it very stable. Any questions about it I'd be happy to help. Oh 9.5 hrs on the first tank of fuel and I'm at 3/8 of a tank. I plan on running to E to see how long a tank last.

This is excellent information & exactly what I'd suspected but needed to hear! Thank you so much! Between you, @El Jefe, & Ryan Lynch on YT, I'm pretty much sold. Changing to low to go into a pile is exactly what I'd figured on & you'd have to that w/an HST.

I have almost 100 hours on my B2401 now and almost all of that is doing loader work. Unlike jbolt001 I have never confused the loader control for the shifter and most of the time I like their proximity to each other. As for the comments about the HST being better for slow controlled operation I completely disagree. 1st gear in low range on the B2401 is lower than any tractor I've operated. Its under 1 MPH at max RPM and a fraction of that at low RPM. I find myself shifting the range selector more and more-running second gear M range for transport and if I need to run slow, I just shift into L range. Its really nice to have the 3 ranges. Also, another big plus to the gear drive I've mentioned before is the ability to operate at lower RPM. Hydrostatic transmissions really need to be operated at higher engine RPM or they generate excessive heat. For loader work I generally run around 1400 RPM and if I need more power or speed I just step on the foot throttle briefly then return to a lower RPM. Running the lower RPM has multiple advantages-its MUCH quieter plus the loader controls are much slower and easier to operate with precision. Your HST won't be happy doing heavy work at 1400 RPM. If you prefer a manual car go for the B2401. I don't think its an ideal lawn mower but if you have no prior tractor experience you'll learn and you won't know any differently.

I'd add that I do ultimately plan on mowing with my B2401. I will pick up a 48" flail mower, I only have a half acre of grass but I find that 3PH implements are very handy to take on/off and a flail takes up a lot less space in the shop and they do a great job mulching. I'm in California so mowing is an ordeal that only happens a few times a year.

One think you should think about is the need for ballast on any of these tractors is real if you're doing any heavy loader work. I move logs constantly and frequently lift at the limit of the loader. I have loaded tires (no idea why you wouldn't) and even with my 600lb chipper (heaviest 3PH implement I own) its still light in the rear. If I could get 1000lbs back there I would.

Again, thank you so much for this excellent information! You & @Stringy have confirmed SO MUCH of what I thought in theory seemed reasonable & what it would be like to operate one of these in the real world. I'll drive an HST just to confirm, but at this point, I'm sold! Ryan Lynch on YT (pretty neat channel - just a real world Kubota tech working in a shop - music in the background & typical shop "language") said a salesman took their B2401 out for a test and was all smiles. Ryan's B2401 1st test drive vid is great.

I totally prefer a manual car/truck & am used to a heavy clutch so what you described sounds like a breeze - Is it a hydraulic clutch? To me, the manual trans is so much more engaging. Unfortunately I'm in the minority as no manufacturer is currently offering a manual in a heavy-duty pickup so I'll either be looking @ used or have to succumb. I'll keep my current truck (old 7.3 w/300k mi.) regardless but will need something newer sooner or later - I've had a few newer Dodges/Cummins/Manual (& 1 auto which I didn't like) that I bought new and have always kept my old truck as a backup/beater truck. I'm young enough that I'll probably eventually need to get an automatic as even any used trucks will be really old but at least for now there are relatively new manuals avail.

Interesting that you mention operating the hydraulics @ a lower RPM (for more control). I've run forklifts & they work the same way but the salesman (@ Messick's) actually brought this up as a disadvantage of the gear drive vs. HST. To me it seemed like an advantage if anything & I brought up the forklift example but w/no actual experience I wasn't in a position to argue. I also thought of the point that being a 1st time owner, I'd simply be ignorant of any situation where the HST might have an advantage.

I hadn't even considered a flail mower but will definitely look into it! (Edit: Just did some looking and I think a flail mower will actually allow me to get into more areas of my lawn than a MMM & appears to be about the same price or even less - Good call!). I also only have about ½ acre of grass & I currently mulch my leaves - Side note: My mulching mower does an excellent job. When I'm done it's like magic - The leaves dissappear & it looks like I top dressed the lawn & no bagging, etc. The flail mower would take away yet another issue (along with treadle pedal) that I perceived having with Kubota over JD - I think that would really only leave the steel hood & fuel fill location & I just saw where Kubota sells a slick fuel can for fueling their tractors where the spout is made to fit the fuel inlet. I was dreading doing the MMM removal/installation every time & then storing the MMM but was willing to put up w/it for the features of the B01 vs. 2025R. Was going to get one of those carts made for MMM's (sorta like a specialized hand truck) as I'm hoping to be able to keep all this (tractor, implements, etc.) in an enclosed trailer most of the time.

I'm so excited to go test one & get one on order!

 

[El Jefe]

Everyone has a bias. Most dealers push HST just like most car dealers would steer you to automatic vs manual which is fine, its easier to learn and become proficient at operating. Also, many people buying sub compact tractors are buying their first tractor. For me, I've operated hydrostatic tractors but I've only owned gear drive tractors. I'm comfortable and familiar with them to the point where a hydrostatic feels wrong (holding a pedal down on a tractor to maintain speed) not to mention the whine.

I took a picture of the gear/traveling speed page out of the manual. I made a comment about how low the low range on the B2401 is, first gear low range .6mph at 2500. At idle that's maybe .2mph which is very slow.

As for refueling, the B2401 has a small tank and refueling with a jerry can sucks. Currently I drive the tractor .5 miles to the fuel station to fill up but my plan is to find a transfer tank and mount it to a pallet so I can refill from that (gravity feed). To refill the transfer tank I can just use the tractor to load it into my truck and refill with red dye fuel.

 

[JimmyJazz]

A thought I have regarding the relative ease of use with the hydrostatic drive is that it would be easier to put your children to work mowing. That is, if you have them. Gives them a sense of accomplishment , maybe a few bucks in their pocket, a passing of the "torch" so to speak. I had my 11 yr old boy help cut the 2 acre yard this year with a push mower and I was amazed at the positive affect it had on him. He seemed to walk a little taller afterward. I had a tear then a beer. Not a small consideration in my opinion.

 

[DS524]

A thought I have regarding the relative ease of use with the hydrostatic drive is that it would be easier to put your children to work mowing. That is, if you have them. Gives them a sense of accomplishment , maybe a few bucks in their pocket, a passing of the "torch" so to speak. I had my 11 yr old boy help cut the 2 acre yard this year with a push mower and I was amazed at the positive affect it had on him. He seemed to walk a little taller afterward. I had a tear then a beer. Not a small consideration in my opinion.

I have considered that - my son is 14 & daughter 13. I've also considered that w/a gear drive it's very easy to say no if someone were to want to borrow it - Not that I'd let them if it were an HST but wtthe gear drive it's just not an issue. TTWT is good about letting others operate his equipment (much of which isn't his really anyway) but I'm not keen on letting anyone else exc. maybe my kids and even then...

 

[DS524]

Everyone has a bias. Most dealers push HST just like most car dealers would steer you to automatic vs manual which is fine, its easier to learn and become proficient at operating. Also, many people buying sub compact tractors are buying their first tractor. For me, I've operated hydrostatic tractors but I've only owned gear drive tractors. I'm comfortable and familiar with them to the point where a hydrostatic feels wrong (holding a pedal down on a tractor to maintain speed) not to mention the whine.

I took a picture of the gear/traveling speed page out of the manual. I made a comment about how low the low range on the B2401 is, first gear low range .6mph at 2500. At idle that's maybe .2mph which is very slow.

As for refueling, the B2401 has a small tank and refueling with a jerry can sucks. Currently I drive the tractor .5 miles to the fuel station to fill up but my plan is to find a transfer tank and mount it to a pallet so I can refill from that (gravity feed). To refill the transfer tank I can just use the tractor to load it into my truck and refill with red dye fuel.

I was wondering if there was any overlap in the gears and it looks like there is w/H1 (7) falling in between M2 (5)& M3 (6). I thought R1 was even lower than L1 but apparently not. Either way, I think both are slow enough for any precision work.

I've thought about transfer tank but that'll have to be later. The Kubota can definitely looked like the best option for a can that I-ve seen.

I'm really hoping the optional rear SCV's on the HST B01's are available on the DT & that it's not because of the DT's shifter that they're not.

I'm totally sold on the flail mower idea btw (& of course on the DT)! Thank you so much for all the great information!

 

[aaluck]

But still I'm not sure if I'd regret the gear drive since I plan on doing a lot of loader work.

If you are doing a lot of loader work I would hold out for a HST. I do a good bit of loader work and I can tell you it is like night and day from my other gear tractor. I have a similar setup and I use a Bush Hog finish mower which works great.

 

[rickcopes]

On a small yard, especially if you have trees and a fence, I would recommend a mid mower. Rear mowers swing out on turns, and I have seen a bunch of torn fence, skint trees, and even dented cars due to that. If you will have kids driving it and training to be operators, that is even more important.

The advantage that a rear mower has is that you can mow under a fence line (bobbed wire) better, and you can back into corners. MM always leave rounded corners where fences are.

I have a 2601, and I am thrilled with it. I will suggest getting pallet forks. You can not imagine all of the stuff you can do with a set of them, whether quick attach, or the ones that bolt on the bucket. They will make your life a lot easier!!