Attaching Long 1200 Hoe to L2950

[ted928]

Hi guys,

I have a L2950 with a LA450 FEL. I would like to attach a Long 1200 backhoe to it. The hoe has hoses on it as it was last powered via remote hydraulics. My tractor does not have any rear hydraulics. The hoe has a pump but it has not been used in a long time and I don't know if it works. There is no filter housing and the boss for the return hose is broken.

Should I power the hoe using its pump or use the tractor's hydraulics?

To use the hoe's pump I would need repair the broken boss, clean to reservoir, get a filter housing somewhere, get a coupler to attach the pto shaft to the pump, hope the pump works. Anything else???

To use the tractor hydraulics, what do I need?????

Thanks

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Use the pump! All the parts you are listing that you need will not add up to too much of a cost.
The operation of the hoe will be much better with a remote pump, it just moves way more fluid in the amount of time!

The parts are fairly easy to get if you need help locating them give a shout, I know where to get them all.

Just as a note, even if you had remote hydraulic hook-ups on the rear of your tractor they wouldn't work to run the hoe, it needs a constant flow type of connection not a controlled connection.

 

[ted928]

Use the pump! All the parts you are listing that you need will not add up to too much of a cost.
The operation of the hoe will be much better with a remote pump, it just moves way more fluid in the amount of time!

The parts are fairly easy to get if you need help locating them give a shout, I know where to get them all.

Just as a note, even if you had remote hydraulic hook-ups on the rear of your tractor they wouldn't work to run the hoe, it needs a constant flow type of connection not a controlled connection.

Thanks for your reply and offer to help - I would like to take you up on it.

I have a pto shaft from my tiller that I can use but I need to adapt it to the pump. I measured the pump shaft diameter as 0.92". It has a key and a through hole. Where can I find this adaptor?

The return fitting is broken. I think I need to grind it off and weld a new fitting on. Where should I look for a filter housing and fitting?

I can post some pictures from the parts diagram if that would help.

Thanks

 

[ted928]

Thanks for your reply and offer to help - I would like to take you up on it.

I have a pto shaft from my tiller that I can use but I need to adapt it to the pump. I measured the pump shaft diameter as 0.92". It has a key and a through hole. Where can I find this adaptor?

The return fitting is broken. I think I need to grind it off and weld a new fitting on. Where should I look for a filter housing and fitting?

I can post some pictures from the parts diagram if that would help.

Thanks

Does this look like what I need?
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-...-X-1-3-8-6T-SPLINE-F-M-PTO-ADAPTER-1-2241.axd

I want to add a filter to the return line. The hose is 1/2" and needs to flow 8 gpm. Is this what I need?
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/Zinga/3-4-NPT-20-GPM-FA1200-10-RETURN-FILTER-9-059.axd

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Where is the filter going to be located?
Between the tank and the pump or between valves return and the tank?
One is a return filter and the other is a suction filter.
Is the pump mounted to the frame of the Backhoe?
If it is and the PTO shaft you have is a PTO Spline to PTO Spline type then yes that pump adapter is the one you want.

 

[gpreuss]

Using the tractor hydraulics is pretty easy - you need 3 or 4 hoses and two QD hose fitting sets. Remove the return line from the FEL valve block, and route it back towards the rear of the tractor. Run a new hose from the FEL valve block return port, back to where ever the old return line ended up, and connect them together with one of the QD fitting sets. So far, all you have done is put a roughly 6 foot extension hose in the FEL circuit, and everything works.
Fit the other two new hoses to the backhoe pressure and return ports, and put the 2nd set of QD fittings on them, to connect to the ones from the FEL that you just made up. The new return line you just added has to go to the backhoe pressure port, and the backhoe return line has to connect to the old FEL return line.
I had an old 3ph backhoe from my L185DT, that had the self contained pump, filter and reservoir. It wouldn't fit on my new L3200 - the reservoir got in the way. So I hooked it up to the tractor hydraulics as described above. It works fine. I find it is a lot easier to connect than trying to get the PTO shaft and pump hooked up in the confined space.
Attached is a picture of the remote hoses the dealer hooked up for me. I use them directly for the backhoe, or have a remote valve block with short pressure and return hoses fitted with QDs, for whatever else I need.

 

[ted928]

Where is the filter going to be located?
Between the tank and the pump or between valves return and the tank?

One is a return filter and the other is a suction filter.
Is the pump mounted to the frame of the Backhoe?
If it is and the PTO shaft you have is a PTO Spline to PTO Spline type then yes that pump adapter is the one you want.

I was thinking about putting it on the return instead of suction. Do you have a recommendation?
The pump is mounted to the hoe frame. The pump shaft is 1" with a key and I have a spare pto shaft that is 6 splined.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

A suction filter is the best because it makes sure that the fuild getting to the pump is clean.
But if you need to put it on the return, just make sure the reservoir is feeding the pump clean fluid from the start.

 

[ted928]

A suction filter is the best because it makes sure that the fuild getting to the pump is clean.
But if you need to put it on the return, just make sure the reservoir is feeding the pump clean fluid from the start.

It would be easier for me to install on suction side but I thought that was not ideal. I certainly like the idea of knowing that the fluid has been filtered before entering the pump (especially on old equipment that is used infrequently) but I hate the thought of possibly starving the pump so that is why I thought return install was better.

3/4" is the suction side fitting coming from the reservoir (frame of hoe). Do you think this is large enough to handle installing the filter here?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Better to starve a pump then to have it over pressure because of a clogged return filter!

Yes 3/4 is fine for the filter fittings, this would be my pick for the filter assembly.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/Zinga/3-4-NPT-9-GPM-FA1112-25-SUCTION-FILTER-W-GAUGE-9-077-A.axd

 

[ted928]

Better to starve a pump then to have it over pressure because of a clogged return filter!

Yes 3/4 is fine for the filter fittings, this would be my pick for the filter assembly.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/Zinga/3-4-NPT-9-GPM-FA1112-25-SUCTION-FILTER-W-GAUGE-9-077-A.axd

Excellent. Thanks for the help - now I know how to get started.

 

[ted928]

Thanks for your reply and offer to help - I would like to take you up on it.

I have a pto shaft from my tiller that I can use but I need to adapt it to the pump. I measured the pump shaft diameter as 0.92". It has a key and a through hole. Where can I find this adaptor?

The return fitting is broken. I think I need to grind it off and weld a new fitting on. Where should I look for a filter housing and fitting?

I can post some pictures from the parts diagram if that would help.

Thanks

Does this look like what I need?
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-...-X-1-3-8-6T-SPLINE-F-M-PTO-ADAPTER-1-2241.axd

I was thinking about putting it on the return instead of suction. Do you have a recommendation?
The pump is mounted to the hoe frame. The pump shaft is 1" with a key and I have a spare pto shaft that is 6 splined.

Well I ordered the adaptor. It is too big. I forgot my own measurement from my first post. My pump shaft is ~0.92", not 1"; and the keyway is over 0.3, not 1/4".

The adaptor did not come with a .25" key. Do you think I should buy the .25" key and see if the set screw will take enough of the slop out and run it or do I need a different adaptor or a special implement yoke?

What size is this pump shaft?
Thanks

 

[ted928]

Well I ordered the adaptor. It is too big. I forgot my own measurement from my first post. My pump shaft is ~0.92", not 1"; and the keyway is over 0.3, not 1/4".

The adaptor did not come with a .25" key. Do you think I should buy the .25" key and see if the set screw will take enough of the slop out and run it or do I need a different adaptor or a special implement yoke?

What size is this pump shaft?
Thanks

Time for an update.

I mounted a filter, replaced some hoses, and made a coupler between the pump mounted on the hoe and a PTO shaft. I fired-up the PTO and tried the backhoe. It worked but the pump must not be putting out enough pressure because I was only able to dig the top 10 inches of soil. Not enough power to go deeper.

So I need a new pump. The stock pump is rated at 8 gpm at 2000 psi.

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Have you done a pressure test to make sure it's the pump and not the relief valve or the controls causing the problem?
Did you clean the tank completely before use?
If the pump is being starved for fluid then it won't work, is the pick-up screen clean?

 

[ted928]

Have you done a pressure test to make sure it's the pump and not the relief valve or the controls causing the problem?
Did you clean the tank completely before use?
If the pump is being starved for fluid then it won't work, is the pick-up screen clean?

You raise some good questions.
I did clean the tank.
I did not look inside the pump intake to see if there is a screen.
I'll have to look for a port to install a pressure gage. Maybe the pump has a port - I'll have to look.

How can you tell if its the pump or the relief valve?
The hoe operates fine. The pump does not make any noise. When I bottom-out a cylinder a hear the tractor strain a little.
I'll look at my backhoe parts manual to see if it helps.

Thanks for the help.

 

[gpreuss]

I'd put a pressure gauge on the pump output or the valve input, to see what I have.
Keep in mind that the strength in a backhoe is all in the wrist action at the bucket; the leverage for the digger stick or left arm simply isn't there.

 

[ted928]

I'd put a pressure gauge on the pump output or the valve input, to see what I have.
Keep in mind that the strength in a backhoe is all in the wrist action at the bucket; the leverage for the digger stick or left arm simply isn't there.

I will try to find a spot to tap into pump pressure. When I had this hoe powered from the loader pump (driven from the front on my 53 ford NAA), the hoe dug much better.
Thanks

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

It could very well be a tired pump, a pressure reading while under operation will tell you.

 

[ted928]

It could very well be a tired pump, a pressure reading while under operation will tell you.

If it is a tired pump, can it be rebuilt or do I need a replacement. The housing looks like aluminum and it appears to be a gear pump. If it is a gear pump, I don't see what wears out.

I will try running it at higher speed (1000 rpm) to see if that helps since my tractor has that option to see if that helps.

It looks like I can get a prince pto pump (which is a gear pump) for ~$450. There are also gear pumps that mount to the hoe frame (like my current pump) for under $200. They also appear to have an aluminum housing. I don't understand why the big price difference since they are both gear pumps. And I don't understand what wears on a gear pump that would cause the output pressure to drop.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

If it is a tired pump, can it be rebuilt or do I need a replacement. The housing looks like aluminum and it appears to be a gear pump. If it is a gear pump, I don't see what wears out.

I will try running it at higher speed (1000 rpm) to see if that helps since my tractor has that option to see if that helps.

It looks like I can get a prince pto pump (which is a gear pump) for ~$450. There are also gear pumps that mount to the hoe frame (like my current pump) for under $200. They also appear to have an aluminum housing. I don't understand why the big price difference since they are both gear pumps. And I don't understand what wears on a gear pump that would cause the output pressure to drop.

Both the gears and case can wear over time and cause a loss of pressure.
Most pumps are not rebuildable, too much wear happens an the tolerance becomes to great.
Does your pump have a gear box attached to it or just direct drive from the PTO?
If it doesn't then that's your issue, it's probably needing a 1000 rpm just to work right.
The stock pump had a gear box to bump up the PTO speed to 2000RPM driven by 540RPM PTO.