Are you going to.....

[MNVikingsGuy]

Odd thing is that we get nightly Covid death counts for the counties in our part of the commonwealth, all of PA and the whole USofA. Then if we want to know the numbers for different cancers, heart attacks, suicides, etc we need to wait at least a year.

I am sure if we wanted to pay the taxes to fund the staff to do it they would be happy to ablige. I for one can wait.

 

[johnjk]

There are ongoing studies. Here is one.

Bottom line some immune cells last 6 to 8 months so far, but there are also examples of reinfection. May depend a lot on how good your immune system is.
Needless to say data for long term effectiveness of vaccines not available.

AAAS

science.sciencemag.org

So pretty much like the flu every year. Thanks for the link

 

[sheepfarmer]

So pretty much like the flu every year. Thanks for the link

Well not certain if just like flu. They currently only have data out to 6 to 8 months. Immunity could last longer, they just don’t know yet. It is similar to flu in that the virus mutates pretty fast, but it remains to be seen how good the immune system is at detecting that spiky exterior.

 

[MNVikingsGuy]

Well not certain if just like flu. They currently only have data out to 6 to 8 months. Immunity could last longer, they just don’t know yet. It is similar to flu in that the virus mutates pretty fast, but it remains to be seen how good the immune system is at detecting that spiky exterior.

The primary antigens on influenza are structured in a way to recombine into many, still functional, variants. Single strand mRNA viruses like Coronaviruses do mutate quickly but many are non-productive variants. We don't know yet for sure, but if the primary antigen in COVID-19 is sufficiently sensitive to mutation as to make the resulting virus non-infectious, then the vaccines will be viable for the long haul, not just one season like influenza. But at this point who knows.

 

[Magicman]

Hopefully this will not be much different from a "different" flu shots being available each year to counteract the yearly flu virus variations.

 

[Lil Foot]

I had some new neighbors move in next door, just before the whole covid thing started. They are nice folks, from a mideastern country. The teens, 16yr old girl, & 18yr old boy, were have regular parties, maybe one a month, maybe 20 young people in attendance. All at once the parties stopped. We asked the young man about it, and he said they were having regular teen parties, but with a covid lottery. Everyone put in $20, and whoever got the virus first, won the money. Well, an 18yr old kid got it, and died from it. His mother went to each attendee, and gave them back their money, with the agreement they would stop the lottery.
They told me the kid was healthy, but I would suspect he had an underlying condition no one knew about.
I'm told he died two weeks after diagnosis.

I know only three people who got the virus, and all recovered as if it was a normal flu.
The kid above I never met, but is the closest we have come to someone who has died from it.

 

[Lil Foot]

Funny part of the virus thing is that the wife and I were already practicing many of the protocols before the virus hit. (except the mask) Being caregivers for a 92yr old & a 90 yr old, just seems like the smart thing to do, long before the virus.
My wife used to be HR manager for a major contact lens manufacturer, and one of her friends managed their biologically clean cleanroom. The company closed this facility, and we did not want to relocate to the Peoples Republic of CA, (shudder!) so my wife moved on to another job.
Her friend opened a high end asian food restaurant, and we spent a lot of time listening to this woman explain the various protocols she put in place to keep diners biologically safe, using her expertise from the cleanroom.
Example: The biggest single spread of germs in eateries is from menus, so she cleaned all menus after each customer, and permitted no menus on the table after the food came out. She talked about restroom protocols, napkin protocols, chair & booth protocols, you get the idea. All of this was nearly 20 yrs before the virus, so the wife and I have been carrying hand sanitizer and wipes for years, and use them whenever we go out, eating, shopping, antiquing, whatever.
We're not germaphobes, just careful, because, like the regular flu, (maybe more so for covid) her folks getting it would be a virtual death sentence for them. Both have other medical problems.

 

[NHSleddog]

Actual covid = 400,000 or so deaths in US
Vaccine = 0 deaths in US

Covid is kicking the vaccine's butt in the lethality game.

Both of those numbers are wrong, but so what right? The media have tried to scare me for the last year, your bad numbers won't help.

My wife is a nurse and I have been surrounded by this. Good luck with your shots.

 

[MNVikingsGuy]

Both of those numbers are wrong, but so what right? The media have tried to scare me for the last year, your bad numbers won't help.

My wife is a nurse and I have been surrounded by this. Good luck with your shots.

Please cite credible alternatives and I will stand corrected.

My daughter is an ICU RN and got to see plenty go to the morgue - grim year for her.

 

[armylifer]

Please cite credible alternatives and I will stand corrected.

My daughter is an ICU RN and got to see plenty go to the morgue - grim year for her.

I suspect that no one will be able to cite what you consider to be credible numbers unless the source is from the SPLC or Wikipedia.

 

[MNVikingsGuy]

I suspect that no one will be able to cite what you consider to be credible numbers unless the source is from the SPLC or Wikipedia.

Give me a credible science-based source, shouldn't be too much to ask for if we are citing science. SPLC and Wiki are neither. A major university medical center, a government agency, a major private for-profit medical system, a peer-reviewed journal article from a reputable scientific publication, a major non-profit health system, etc. But of course, they are all in on the conspiracy right. So the only credible scientific data is unsubstantiated anonymous internet anecdotes? I guess we should just go back to bleedings and medical assistance from our barber - you know, the good old days.

 

[armylifer]

Give me a credible science-based source, shouldn't be too much to ask for if we are citing science. SPLC and Wiki are neither. A major university medical center, a government agency, a major private for-profit medical system, a peer-reviewed journal article from a reputable scientific publication, a major non-profit health system, etc. But of course, they are all in on the conspiracy right. So the only credible scientific data is unsubstantiated anonymous internet anecdotes? I guess we should just go back to bleedings and medical assistance from our barber - you know, the good old days.

I have seen several posts here that are from websites that you consider to be non-credible. What you apparently have failed to check is what those websites are sourcing their information from. The source is not the website, it is another source that in my opinion is credible. I have seen that the news in the United States is bent hard left and is following an agenda that is one of fear mongering. The MSM has zero credibility and anyone that follows MSM as their news sources is gullible.

 

[Magicman]

We have had 4 good friends to die from Covid. All were healthy with no obvious previous medical issues. One in her 80's, one in his 70's, (my age) and two in their 50's that were classmates with our children.

There were two more that I never heard the causes and didn't ask but it was a mother (70's) and her son (50's).

 

[MNVikingsGuy]

I have seen several posts here that are from websites that you consider to be non-credible. What you apparently have failed to check is what those websites are sourcing their information from. The source is not the website, it is another source that in my opinion is credible. I have seen that the news in the United States is bent hard left and is following an agenda that is one of fear mongering. The MSM has zero credibility and anyone that follows MSM as their news sources is gullible.

I provided numbers in response to another user. My numbers came from Mayo and CDC. My numbers were summarily dismissed by the other user without providing any alternative numbers. I offered to stand corrected if that user could provide alternative numbers with credible support. Not sure how that turns into a generalized MSM rant by a different user.

I gave numbers I believe to be credible and have pointed to two sources that generally align that are not media organizations of any type and that are viewed as world-class leaders in medicine - one a government agency that generated most of these numbers under the direction of the prior administration and one private medical system that has stood out for decades as one of the most credible names in medicine. I again welcome different death statistics from the vaccine and the virus from equally credible scientific sources. But I am guessing they will not come - as that's not how conspiracies are supported.

There were also anecdotes about a user and his nurse wife - somehow suggesting her profession lended credibility to his view. I offered a similar anecdotal experience from my daughter, a front-line ICU RN who has seen firsthand many many deaths in her ward - yet no clarification of that user's wifes role in all of this and the nauture of her specific experiences. I would be surprised if she was an ICU nurse in a major hospital and was still so cavalier, but maybe I am wrong.

I really don't care if folk want to do their own home-brewed medical assessment, more power to ya. But I do find it interesting how any request for scientifically valid sourcing is never responded to with any direct answer. It is always an in-direct response referencing conspiracies, personal attack, railing at the media, some one-off discredited hack, or not responded to the request at all. I hope that the average reader sees this for what it is. It is the 2021 version of a flat earth, fake moon landing, vaccines causing autism, 9/11 a CIA plot, HIV a GOP plot, etc etc. Has gone on forever, not going to stop now. But in the past 95% of Americans seemed to see through the silliness, somehow today QAnon and anti-vaxxers thrive. Maybe we have become dumber as a people. I hope not, but hard to be too optimistic these days.

 

[NHSleddog]

Please cite credible alternatives and I will stand corrected.

My daughter is an ICU RN and got to see plenty go to the morgue - grim year for her.

Is the CDC OK?

126 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 22, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 2,216 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports.

But how many were hit by busses?

 

[MNVikingsGuy]

Is the CDC OK?

126 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 22, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 2,216 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports.

But how many were hit by busses?

Yup CDC is a decent source. But did you purposely cut off this quote or just stop reading? Here is a screen clip of the CDC info you cite (bolding is theirs, not mine). You seemed to miss the actual conclusion. Zero is still the right number for covid vaccine deaths in the US.

And here is the full link (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html).

 

[NHSleddog]

They credited my friend with stage 4 cancer of dying of covid while in hospice. If you are going to count those, you need to count them all.

So you think the number is zero and I think that is wrong. Super UNDERINFLATED

And you think 400,000+ have died from it in America, again, I think that number is SUPER INFLATED based on how they have been doing it. Not CNN's take but science. At least nobody dies from the regular flue anymore, so I guess we have that going for us.

23 die in Norway after receiving Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine: officials

Common reactions to the vaccine, including fever and nausea, “may have contributed to a fatal outcome in some frail patients,” Sigurd Hortemo, chief physician at the Norwegian Medicines Agency, sai…

nypost.com

55 People Died in US After Receiving COVID-19 Vaccines: Reporting System - CatholicCitizens.org

By Zachary Stieber, Epoch Times, January 16, 2021 Fifty-five people in the United States have died after receiving a COVID-19 vaccine, according to reports submitted to a federal system. Deaths […]

catholiccitizens.org

Government Database Shows 7,844 Injuries and 181 Deaths Following COVID Vaccine as of Jan. 15 says Children's Health Defense

/PRNewswire/ -- The primary mechanism for reporting adverse vaccine reactions in the U.S., the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), reported 181...

www.prnewswire.com

California resident dies several hours after receiving COVID-19 vaccine; cause of death remains unclear

An individual in California who tested positive for COVID-19 in late December and was vaccinated Thursday died several hours after receiving the shot, the Placer County Sheriff's office announced Saturday.

www.foxnews.com

It doesn't matter. You should get one of each type of mystery shot just to be super sure. I had the actual Covid, I'm not standing in line for covid light.

 

[NHSleddog]

It is almost like they are trying to get rid of old people.

Old people are most prone to dying from Covid and old people are most prone to dying and complications from the "cure".

 

[MNVikingsGuy]

They credited my friend with stage 4 cancer of dying of covid while in hospice. If you are going to count those, you need to count them all.

So you think the number is zero and I think that is wrong. Super UNDERINFLATED

And you think 400,000+ have died from it in America, again, I think that number is SUPER INFLATED based on how they have been doing it. Not CNN's take but science. At least nobody dies from the regular flue anymore, so I guess we have that going for us.

23 die in Norway after receiving Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine: officials

Common reactions to the vaccine, including fever and nausea, “may have contributed to a fatal outcome in some frail patients,” Sigurd Hortemo, chief physician at the Norwegian Medicines Agency, sai…

nypost.com

55 People Died in US After Receiving COVID-19 Vaccines: Reporting System - CatholicCitizens.org

By Zachary Stieber, Epoch Times, January 16, 2021 Fifty-five people in the United States have died after receiving a COVID-19 vaccine, according to reports submitted to a federal system. Deaths […]

catholiccitizens.org

Government Database Shows 7,844 Injuries and 181 Deaths Following COVID Vaccine as of Jan. 15 says Children's Health Defense

/PRNewswire/ -- The primary mechanism for reporting adverse vaccine reactions in the U.S., the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), reported 181...

www.prnewswire.com

California resident dies several hours after receiving COVID-19 vaccine; cause of death remains unclear

An individual in California who tested positive for COVID-19 in late December and was vaccinated Thursday died several hours after receiving the shot, the Placer County Sheriff's office announced Saturday.

www.foxnews.com

It doesn't matter. You should get one of each type of mystery shot just to be super sure. I had the actual Covid, I'm not standing in line for covid light.

OK, now you don't believe the very CDC quote you yourself chose. And then you offer one post that is just a conclusion-free recitation of part of the CDC assessment that concluded ZERO. And a press release by one of the most rabid anti-vaxxer groups in the country citing the same unreviewed VAERS submissions that your CDC quote shows resulted in ZERO. Also provided is a fox article that cautions readers that the allegations are not yet verified. I agree the Norway article text smacks of the double-edged sword of "but they were old", but in the following 60 days since that article, nothing substantiating vaccine deaths in the US even with 100 fold more vaccinations, so I will leave that to Norwegians to figure out.

Your offering of CDC numbers while redacting their conclusion, but then attacking their analysis when this is pointed out, and throwing out random articles that just re-hash the same concepts is exactly the pattern of anti-vaxxers for the last 20 years. I hope the average American is tuning out this noise.

(Worth noting - anyone can submit a VAERS concern - no actual evidence is needed and can be submitted by folks who don't even get vaccinated and who have zero medical background. It is then the CDC's job to separate the false and misleading from the true.)

 

[NHSleddog]

OK, now you don't believe the very CDC quote you yourself chose. And then you offer one post that is just a conclusion-free recitation of part of the CDC assessment that concluded ZERO. And a press release by one of the most rabid anti-vaxxer groups in the country citing the same unreviewed VAERS submissions that your CDC quote shows resulted in ZERO. Also provided is a fox article that cautions readers that the allegations are not yet verified. I agree the Norway article text smacks of the double-edged sword of "but they were old", but in the following 60 days since that article, nothing substantiating vaccine deaths in the US even with 100 fold more vaccinations, so I will leave that to Norwegians to figure out.

Your offering of CDC numbers while redacting their conclusion, but then attacking their analysis when this is pointed out, and throwing out random articles that just re-hash the same concepts is exactly the pattern of anti-vaxxers for the last 20 years. I hope the average American is tuning out this noise.

(Worth noting - anyone can submit a VAERS concern - no actual evidence is needed and can be submitted by folks who don't even get vaccinated and who have zero medical background. It is then the CDC's job to separate the false and misleading from the true.)

YOU MISS THE POINT OVER AND OVER

The CDC COUNTED my friends CANCER death in the covid death count (the 400,000).
They counted the guy that got hit on the way to work by a logging truck, on and on.

If you are going to count every death that had poorly tested covid in their system with covid, you need to do the same with the people with the vaccine in their system.

How about if we tested anyone that died while having a common cold? And then blamed the death on the cold? Again, I believe those CDC numbers are way off. The numbers ARE provably WRONG, by how much is the question.

Believe what you want.