Any Wizards of Smarts...besides Wolfman, of course ;-)

[D2Cat]

Last summer I bought an injection pump for my L305 from Oregon Fuel Injection. Excellent to deal with. Good price, good shipping, good product.

Kubota wanted $1200-1300 for pump (I don't remember the exact number) and had to order it. (I didn't check with Coleman's at that point).

Cost from Oregon Fuel Injection was like $425, including shipping and no core required or charge. Got it to Ks. in about three days.

I would highly recommend them.

 

[ShaunRH]

In retrospect I wish I'd have seen ShaunRH's post and at least disassembled the valves to see if that would have been a good way to go. But at least this way I'll know the head is up to specs and I can consider it a $367 lesson learned.

Eh, you didn't miss anything. Having it professionally done gives you all kinds of warm fuzzies and at least a short warranty of service to work with. With the head off, you should clean the carbon off those pistons though. I've seen a couple of YouTube videos that show that SeaFoam soaking overnight on the top of the pistons does a good job of loosening up the carbon. A brass brush will usually clean up what's left.

By the way, you can see the difference between a wizard and the rest of us flunkies. He provides diagram and well written instructions, and speaking for myself only, I only provide blather that might contain something useful...

 

[OlTrailDog]

Wolfman has to be Mr. Wizard because look at the size of his pics compared to my teensy weensy ones . Perhaps with mo' knowledge comes mo' priviledges, eh?

Either there is a secret to posting readable images or the big ones that I've seen in previous posts finally taxed the xbox server and restrictions needed to be enacted to keep the pics to a smaller size.

Thanks for the tip on using Seafoam on the block. I was going to start on that task today.

I also need to bust into the leaky pump and see if it has o rings or a gasket. I have seen some posts on orange that say that even though the diagrams don't show it, there may be o rings in the pump delivery valve holders. If so, this should will stop the seeping out of the holder threads. Anyone ever use teflon or thread sealant? It didn't leak when I got it. However, when I loosened the lines to bleed the system after replacing the fuel filter the d-valve holder busted loose before the lines did. I also needed to remove a couple of lines to get at #1 glowplug. I'm sure I over tightened the holders after I bled the lines because from what I have been able scrounge up if the d-valve holders are supposed to be torqued to around 40lbs.

 

[OlTrailDog]

We have good news and bad news. Which would you like to hear first?

Okay, the bad news is the cylinder head had cracks in at least one seat, the shiny round metal area opposite the valves (covers up the injector and glowplug grotto), and what the machinist believed to be fine cracking along two of the channels that lead from the injector chamber to the cylinders. Toast. I wonder if this is from an over heated engine or the magic of ether to start a recalcitrant tractor? Possibly faulty injectors as evidenced by the excess oil deposits and ports lead to over heating the head?

The good news is after gaging the cylinder bores it looks like they are within spec. That would substantiate the lack of smoke once the tractor is running, the lack of blowby, the dry/wet compression tests, the leak down escaping gases source, and minimum to no ring ridge. I didn't see any over heating evidence or damage in the cylinders. So I will go with slapping a new head on, sending up a few more prayers, and hopefully eek some more years service out of this critter.

The next step appears to be picking up a new head or rebuilt head. So, I'll bounce a couple of ideas off the group. I am more inclined to spend the $700 for a complete head versus purchasing a bare head, new parts, and installing them. I am not inclined to use to valves and etc. off of the old head given the questionable history of the integrity of the head.

OFI had the new injectors and copper washers here in two days, wow. I will also need to take the pump delivery valve holders apart to see if there is an o ring to replace (I've seen contradictory information on whether there is O rings or not). I hope there is because it the slow leak at out the holder threads must be stopped.

When the new head arrives it sounds like there will be a couple of tricky reassembly steps such as: "To check piston to head
clearance, insert a soft lead wire through injection nozzle holder hole. Rotate crankshaft by hand until lead wire is fiattened by piston top. Measure thickness of fiattened wire to determine
top clearance which should be 0.7-0.9 mm (0.028-0.035 inch)."

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Well I have mixed feelings on the subject:

One sorry to hear the head had a big issue.
Two I'm glad the head had a big issue!

Finding a major issue like that can sometime be good because it gives you a reason for your issues.
The #1 reason for those kind of issues normally is from killing the motor with the compression release, if you don't have compression release could have been from dirty or contaminated fuel, or running it hard and hot and not giving it time to cool down before shutdown.
While you may never know really what caused it, you should get many more years of service out of it.

 

[Apogee]

That will be a very nice tractor once repaired.

If it were me, I'd buy a complete head with all of the bits. That being said, Kumar's price on a bare head is pretty good also. But, by the time you pay the machine shop to assemble it, you might as well just pay the $$$ for a complete head. Grainfarmer may or may not have a new head in stock, or he may be able to get one, so I'd be sure to ask.

http://www.grainfarmer.com/kubota-engines.html#Used Kubota Cylinder Heads

http://r.ebay.com/xA6deh

Regarding the injection pump, since it's leaking, I'd send it to OFI and have it serviced or rebuilt while you've got things apart. Sure you can possibly fix it yourself, but how will you test it for proper pressures once you're done? If you send it to them they will take care of the leaks and check to make sure the pressures are correct.

Finally, I stumbled on the following post while searching. Figured you might find it informative if you haven't already seen it:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?8825-Universal-5432-information&

Good luck with your project!

Steve

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I missed the Injection pump part of your issue, I have agree with what Steve said, I too would send it to OFI and have them go through it.
The can test, rebuild and reseal it.

 

[OlTrailDog]

Thanks for the advice and suggestions. I ordered the complete head from grainfarmer. I spent way too much time cogitating over getting a Kumar bare head and purchasing parts or go with the grainfarmer assembled head. I finally went with the grainfarmer.

Thanks for the link to the Ericson yachts info. Actually I came across that in earlier inquiries. I looks like this time I exceeded my allowed number of visits and had to register to get access to the forum. It was this information that gave me the confidence to purchase an ebay V1502 complete gasket set for the price other folks were asking for the head gasket alone! The one thing that remains unanswered is the information on using a V1702/V1902 to replace a V1502. The forum thread doesn't end with a successful swap only that so and so had heard from so and so it could be done. I have seen a similar incomplete swap attempted here on Orange without a definitive conclusion. Hopefully, I will not have to pursue it further.

As far as the pump goes. The tractor runs fine once it starts. The pump leak started when the d-valve holder came loose when I loosened the lines because apparently the lines were on tighter than the holder was torqued at (38-42lbs). I've come across several sources including a Ericson yacht thread, and a youtube vid, and an orange thread where folks have had similar leaks and cured it by carefully replacing just an o ring. If I fail then I will look at OFI for help.

I've struggled with finding a suitable socket to hold the d-valve holder in place while I tighten the lines so I don't have a repeat experience the next time I loosen the injector lines, e.g. when bleeding the lines after fuel filter replacement. No 12 pt. crowfoot or flare end wrench will get in around the holder because of the tight clearance between holders. The best I have now is a 3/4 box end that I cut and ground to be thin enough to fit. I am planning on cutting a chainsaw scrench (19mm) to see if that will work. Failing that I am looking at the Laser sockets

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIESEL-INJECTOR-LINE-SOCKET-SET-FITS-BMW-VW-AUDI-12mm-19mm-/361200224567?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5419360937

But that is a $90 solution, yeesh! However, the best thing about this project is the rationale that I can/have purchase mo' tools because I am saving so much money versus have the Kubota dealer do the work, eh?

 

[Gundoctor]

Just update and trade it for a new one.

 

[D2Cat]

OlTrailDog, I appreciate your tenacity to keep your "old" tractor going! I find great satisfaction in taking thing others would/do discard and making something out of them. It's often times a real easy task with great rewards. Usually takes more time then money by doing your due diligence.

Many do as Gundoctor said, "Just update it and trade it for new." It is a very common and easy solution.

A new 30HP tractor will cost about 15K-17K. Then add a loader, another 4K. But you get zero interest for 5 years. So take your 17K add the 4K and you're at 21K divide by 60 months equals $350 a month. That's $4200 a year.

If you use your tractor 50 hr. a year that's a cost of $84 per/hr. for the first 5 years.

Oh, I know this is all stupid math because after 5 years you own the tractor, have no payments, can sell it and re-coop all your money......and life is easy.

 

[Apogee]

OlTrailDog,

A couple of other injection pump wrench options based on the 3/4" spec you noted. Might help save a few bucks...

http://www.autotoolworld.com/Kent-Moore-J29698A-Injector-Line-Wrench-34_p_148598.html ~$42

http://www.mactools.com/en-us/Specialty-Tools/Fuel/SC62A/Diesel-Fuel-Line-Socket-12-pt-3-4 ~$68

***Note 6 pt socket***
http://www.amazon.com/OTC-7453A-Diesel-Fuel-Wrench/dp/B00063YWIM ~$70

***Note all 1/2" drive - smallest size is 6 pt***
http://r.ebay.com/X1taZe ~$99

Finally, regarding metric O-rings (and just about everything else imaginable), McMaster-Carr is a great resource if you're not familiar with them:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#o-rings/=vt3tzj

Smart move on the head from Grainfarmer I think. He's been dealing in this stuff a long time so he likely knows what he's doing. Plus, it will hopefully be an original Kubota head.

Hope this helps!

Steve

 

[OlTrailDog]

Thanks Apogee for the links. Some of those options I have been watching on ebay. The last Craftsman link is actually what I have now, i.e. an old Proto box end that I cut a "flare nut" gap and ground the sides to fit around the d-valve holder. I used it to hold the d-valve holders in place while I removed the injection lines to take the head off. However, on one holder there was sufficient give to the wrench that it slipped a cog on one of the holders, so I know it isn't quite perfect.

I am presently watching some of the OTC sockets but they seem to be way more than I want to spend for a single use socket. I have also been watching ebay for similar MAC and Snapon versions, but the 3/4 or 19mm haven't appeared yet. The Kent-Moore is almost ideal and would be perfect if it was a 19mm. I had homed in on picking up a Bonney 3/4 crowfoot because it looked to have the narrowest walls of the quality socket makers on ebay. But when it arrived it was a tad to wide and I didn't want to grind on it since it was such a beautiful socket. I thought I'd rather grind on the old Proto box end. The Kent-Moore is very tempting because it is specifically advertised as an injection line socket, albeit for 3/4 instead of 19mm. I added this item to my ebay searches, but I may end up paying full price for one of these sockets.

The big advantage I see in the Laser sockets is 1) they are also made for injectors, 2) however the socket drive is opposite the wrench side so you know that it will fit over the fuel line and flare nut ( I have concerns that the OTC, MAC, Snapon socket shape may not fit over the whole fuel line, flare nut, and holder assembly for a good fit?) and 3) for $90 shipped from England I recieve 6 sockets versus one.

A newer tractor just isn't in the cards. I'm retired, so now I have more time than money, I'll be hitting that big bump in the road not many years hence, and my wife would bring that bump along sooner if I showed up with a new tractor.

I really appreciate the time you folks have put into scrounging up links and providing advice and direction. If I put my two cents regarding a bit of advice it isn't to denigrate a suggest. Rather it should be taken as bouncing ideas around for feedback. In the end maybe we will all get "knowed up" a bit, eh? THANKS!

 

[Daren Todd]

Have you checked lowes for the sockets? They have a set that I picked up for my kid that are open on top, and the ratchet portion actually hooks around the out side of the socket. I've actually (borrowed) stolen his set to get into some strange and odd ball locations

 

[Apogee]

You're welcome. I figure it's a team effort as well and I'll take all the getting knowed up that I can!

For the record (not at all being insulting), 3/4 inch = 0.75 inch = 19.05 millimeter. Hence, I wouldn't be concerned about choosing either one as they're VERY close in size.

Best,

Steve

 

[Apogee]

Daren's tip is an interesting one. However the Lowes version doesn't mention whether or not it includes a 3/4 (or 19mm) size. Reviews for the Lowes version mentioned that Sears has a better product. I'm intrigued by this and may need to pick one of these sets up:

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-19pc-universal-max-axess-socket-and-ratchet/p-00931088000P

For larger diameter stuff I think this would be the set to get as the 1/2" drive would give a larger pass through hole in the center:

http://www.amazon.com/GearWrench-891226-Ratchet-Locking-Flex-Head/dp/B000NIAKJK

 

[Daren Todd]

Daren's tip is an interesting one. However the Lowes version doesn't mention whether or not it includes a 3/4 (or 19mm) size. Reviews for the Lowes version mentioned that Sears has a better product. I'm intrigued by this and may need to pick one of these sets up:

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-19pc-universal-max-axess-socket-and-ratchet/p-00931088000P

For larger diameter stuff I think this would be the set to get as the 1/2" drive would give a larger pass through hole in the center:

http://www.amazon.com/GearWrench-891226-Ratchet-Locking-Flex-Head/dp/B000NIAKJK

I had gotten my kid a set. Went from 1/4 up to 1/2" drive. Believe it went up to 1" and I believe either 22 or 24 mm. Had one ratchet with adapters for 1/4 to 1/2" drive. If you watch them around the holidays, they get the deluxe kit's with all the goody's And the sockets would work for standard and metric. He's just into tinkering so I figured it would be a good starter kit for him.

If I have to make a tool, cut or grind down a wrench, or a socket, then I go to harbor freight for a cheapy

 

[OlTrailDog]

I am assuming the Lowes and Sears socket sets are similar to the Armstrong Eliminators or the Matco special forces. I have a set of 3/8 and 1/2 drive SAE and Metric Eliminators that I use except when I need a different configuation to get at a particular bolt or nut. These style wrenches do not work for the d-valve holders because you can't get a closed socket or wrench over the top because of the fuel line.

 

[whitetiger]

Wolfman has to be Mr. Wizard because look at the size of his pics compared to my teensy weensy ones . Perhaps with mo' knowledge comes mo' priviledges, eh?

Either there is a secret to posting readable images or the big ones that I've seen in previous posts finally taxed the xbox server and restrictions needed to be enacted to keep the pics to a smaller size.

Thanks for the tip on using Seafoam on the block. I was going to start on that task today.

I also need to bust into the leaky pump and see if it has o rings or a gasket. I have seen some posts on orange that say that even though the diagrams don't show it, there may be o rings in the pump delivery valve holders. If so, this should will stop the seeping out of the holder threads. Anyone ever use teflon or thread sealant? It didn't leak when I got it. However, when I loosened the lines to bleed the system after replacing the fuel filter the d-valve holder busted loose before the lines did. I also needed to remove a couple of lines to get at #1 glowplug. I'm sure I over tightened the holders after I bled the lines because from what I have been able scrounge up if the d-valve holders are supposed to be torqued to around 40lbs.

When you are bleeding the air from your injection lines ,loosen them at the top of the line where the air is, not at the injection pump. We have people bring in equipment all the time that tried to bleed their lines at the bottom and broke the delivery valve loose resulting in a leak. I would never try to seal them with tape or sealer, if you get a piece in the pump or injector you have bigger problems than a washer and o-ring for each delivery valve.

 

[OlTrailDog]

Actually, I should correct this. It wasn't from bleeding the lines that caused the initial pump leaking leaking. I only need to loosen the injector side of the lines to bleed, and use the bleeder valve on the pump to bleed from the filter to the pump. The initial leak started when I needed to test and replace the glowplug that is hidden behind the injector lines (bad design). I also needed to remove the line to get access to the glowplug hole for compression tests. The d-valve holder came loose when loosening the lower flare nuts. Unfortunately, it is such a tight fit between the d-valve holers that I needed to remove other lines just to get access to tighten the middle d-valve holders. Hence my quest to find the right tool to fit between the d-valve holders to hold the d-valve holder in place while loosening or tightening the flare nuts. I don't know if there is more room on a 3 cylinder pump, but the 4 cylinder pumps have little room between the holders (another great design)

Thanks, for answering my question on teflon or sealant. I thought this might be the case because I have never come across anyone using either. Probably because the high pressure would not prevent a leak with teflon or sealant if the seal was intact, period.

 

[Tooljunkie]

Flare nut wrenches definetly are not all created equal. I was stuck and bought the only one available that day. It stretched. Heated it with torch and quenched it in some used diesel motor oil. Three times. It worked perfectly. I was desperate and needed that wrench to work.

Just a point that may help with weak tools.