Antique Safe Question

[NCL4701]

Maybe odd to post on a tractor forum but there seem to be quite a few folks on here with knowledge well beyond orange tractors.

This safe has been in my family for many years. Who exactly purchased it, where and when: no clue.

What I do know…
It has a key lock, skeleton key for the main door. Turn clockwise once to lock. Turn clockwise twice and it “double locks”. If double locked you have to insert the key half way, 1/4 turn counterclockwise, then back to starting position, insert fully, one turn counterclockwise to open. The handle doesn’t turn, just a dead knob. The key moves the bolts. It’s a box inside of a box design with some sort of insulating material in between. Once the main door is open there’s an inside door that requires a second skeleton key and a couple little wooden drawers behind that door that require a third skeleton key. There are also dividers for organizing papers. Inside setup is pretty typical for an office style safe. Manufactured by Eisenman & Mangold, 156 Vine St, Philadelphia, PA. Found an 1864 notice in an archive of Press - Philadelphia (a newspaper) listing a Eisenman & Mangold Salamander safe for sale as part of an estate sale. Unable to find any other record of this company. 156 Vine St is still there but looks like fancy town houses currently. This thing weighs a LOT, particularly for its size.

What I think I know…
“Salamander” safes were marketed as fireproof safes. Doesn’t seem to be a manufacturer specific model or term. That explains the box in box with insulation between design. There’s no damage so I can’t tell what kind of insulation it has. Overall weight suggests concrete or something of similar density. That or the steel plating is quite thick. This type safe was first manufactured around 1840. Key locks started going out in favor of combination locks in the 1880’s and 90’s.

Don’t see any external rivets on it. Will look at it harder in the morning to see how it’s joined together: hammer welded, riveted, gas welded, stick welded, etc.

Anyway, if there are any antique safe experts out there that know anything about this thing: how old it is, if it’s worth anything, if it’s really fire resistant, what happened to Eisenman & Mangold Makers of 156 Vine St., your knowledge would be greatly appreciated.

BTW: It still works perfectly and is still used.

 

[DustyRusty]

Thanks for the instructions on how it works. Could you please provide me with your address so I can come to try to break into it. Cool looking item. I had an old safe in a home that I bought, and as far as I know, it is still in the cellar. Too heavy to move, and I taped the combination to the door, so anyone that wanted to look in it, could. I never kept anything in there, but I often thought of putting some realistic-looking skeleton bones inside to freak out the next homeowner.

 

[hagrid]

We cut open an oldie... turned out the same way Geraldo's did.

The insulation was powdered clay. Made one hell of a mess when I gouged into it.

 

[ve9aa]

You need to send it to "the lock picking lawyer" on youtube.
He has quite a following.

Sorry, no help here. Moving along. . . .

 

[Lil Foot]

I opened an old Wells Fargo box (not sure of the manufacturer) for a friend who inherited it from his grandpa. Used an amplified electronic stethoscope borrowed from work. Took about 5 hrs. We found some gold & silver US coins & an old pocket watch. Kinda fun.

 

[NCL4701]

I opened an old Wells Fargo box (not sure of the manufacturer) for a friend who inherited it from his grandpa. Used an amplified electronic stethoscope borrowed from work. Took about 5 hrs. We found some gold & silver US coins & an old pocket watch. Kinda fun.

That would be really fun to find something unexpected or valuable. There were some items in this one that were interesting from a family history standpoint but nothing of any monetary value.

Found the court orders associated with my father’s adoption and name change when he was 5, which completely refuted the story of his adoption he had always told us. A few similar items that cleared up some of the history that had been filtered to make it more palatable, but nothing earth shattering.

Somewhat funny story from tonight. Wife and I were at Dad’s house tonight continuing cleaning. She saw the safe pulled out from its usual spot under the stairs and said with it being on wheels it would be awfully easy to steal the whole thing. Told her if she could roll it 10’ without any machinery I’d give her $100. If she could get one corner off the ground without a lever or the forklift I’d give her $1000. She about gave herself a hernia and I got some entertainment, but I kept my money and she admitted no way two guys could toss it in a truck.

 

[bird dogger]

Maybe odd to post on a tractor forum but there seem to be quite a few folks on here with knowledge well beyond orange tractors.

This safe has been in my family for many years. Who exactly purchased it, where and when: no clue.

What I do know…
It has a key lock, skeleton key for the main door. Turn clockwise once to lock. Turn clockwise twice and it “double locks”. If double locked you have to insert the key half way, 1/4 turn counterclockwise, then back to starting position, insert fully, one turn counterclockwise to open. The handle doesn’t turn, just a dead knob. The key moves the bolts. It’s a box inside of a box design with some sort of insulating material in between. Once the main door is open there’s an inside door that requires a second skeleton key and a couple little wooden drawers behind that door that require a third skeleton key. There are also dividers for organizing papers. Inside setup is pretty typical for an office style safe. Manufactured by Eisenman & Mangold, 156 Vine St, Philadelphia, PA. Found an 1864 notice in an archive of Press - Philadelphia (a newspaper) listing a Eisenman & Mangold Salamander safe for sale as part of an estate sale. Unable to find any other record of this company. 156 Vine St is still there but looks like fancy town houses currently. This thing weighs a LOT, particularly for its size.

What I think I know…
“Salamander” safes were marketed as fireproof safes. Doesn’t seem to be a manufacturer specific model or term. That explains the box in box with insulation between design. There’s no damage so I can’t tell what kind of insulation it has. Overall weight suggests concrete or something of similar density. That or the steel plating is quite thick. This type safe was first manufactured around 1840. Key locks started going out in favor of combination locks in the 1880’s and 90’s.

Don’t see any external rivets on it. Will look at it harder in the morning to see how it’s joined together: hammer welded, riveted, gas welded, stick welded, etc.

Anyway, if there are any antique safe experts out there that know anything about this thing: how old it is, if it’s worth anything, if it’s really fire resistant, what happened to Eisenman & Mangold Makers of 156 Vine St., your knowledge would be greatly appreciated.

BTW: It still works perfectly and is still used.


View attachment 87429 View attachment 87430

I've never seen a safe lock mechanism like you described. But there are some "Salamander Safes" whose construction is very similar to yours. And there's a few that are identical to yours....but with different locking mechanisms and manufacturer's badges. It would seem one outfit was maybe making the actual enclosures for a few different "Safe" companies who installed their own locks and badges on them? The literature and info on them is scarce to non existant.

That's a cool safe, you have!! Some of the old office style safes have removeable inserts so that the purchaser could choose the "interior" that fit their needs or reconfigure it as needed.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

My dad had one about that size with a combination lock in his hardware store. I forgot the manufacturer but it had the original owner's name and seller (Orgill Brothers & Co.), now Orgill, Inc.) painted on it. One day a relative of the original owner came in the store with a worn out L C Smith double barrel that had been the old man's, so my dad traded him a new single shot for it.

Dad's had nickel?-plated finials that screwed on the top and bottom of each hinge. Looks like yours may be tapped for something similar.

 

[skeets]

Well 3 years in to this post,, did he ever get it open and what was inside ?????

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Well 3 years in to this post,, did he ever get it open and what was inside ?????

He always could open it.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

wife opened it first though.......

 

[NCL4701]

Getting into it was never a problem. Still using it. It had, and has, a bunch of family history type paperwork and papers important to my parents: marriage certificate, military discharge papers, etc.

The only thing of much monetary value was a $50,000 life insurance policy my father never told us about. He told us he didn’t have life insurance. It was a retirement benefit so maybe he forgot about it.

There was a little bit of CSA paper money, a few North Carolina issued silver certificates, some railroad scrip I suppose from my great great grandfather’s tenure as a civil engineer working for the NC railroad. Interesting stuff to us. Looked up values and none of it had market value in excess of sentimental and personal historical value.

Probably most interesting to me was a series of letters between my father and his sister regarding settlement of their mother’s estate. Of course I’d been told a brief story why they didn’t speak for the last 50 years of their lives. That story wasn’t exactly inaccurate but it was whitewashed a bit.