Another childhood Idol gone

Old_Paint

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I think the real point is we should hold ALL politicians and every branch of Government to a higher standard and stop letting Big Pharma and Big Oil and Big Insurance lobby our futures away. Stop letting the FDA release drugs that KILL people. I don't have all the answers, but if the CEO of Moderna was charged with homicide for each person that died from the vaccination, ......
 
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Henro

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[snip[
... Stop letting the FDA release drugs that KILL people. I don't have all the answers, but if the CEO of Moderna was charged with homicide for each person that died from the vaccination, ......
Why not extend that thinking to charging each surgeon that has a patient die after an operation (it does happen, sometimes on the operating table) with homicide as well?
 

armylifer

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Why not extend that thinking to charging each surgeon that has a patient die after an operation (it does happen, sometimes on the operating table) with homicide as well?
They have a fancy name for that. It's called medical malpractice. Give it a fancy name and you can get insurance for it.
 

Old_Paint

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Why not extend that thinking to charging each surgeon that has a patient die after an operation (it does happen, sometimes on the operating table) with homicide as well?
There is a difference. Think about it for a minute. How much money does the average surgeon or his yacht club typically contribute to lobbyists to get a procedure approved, versus how much does Big Pharma pay to lobby the FDA to get their poison on the market?
 

D2Cat

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Now we're on a roll. Hold every company accountable for every death involving their product. Every auto, airline, tractor, 4 wheeler, hand tool, vehicle jack, tire..... Oh, wouldn't it be easier to shut down all law schools for 10 years? :unsure:
 
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Old_Paint

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Now we're on a roll. Hold every company accountable for every death involving their product. Every auto, airline, tractor, 4 wheeler, hand tool, vehicle jack, tire..... Oh, wouldn't it be easier to shut down all law schools for 10 years? :unsure:
That isn't what I said at all. The idea is to open discussion about the present day plight of trying to retire with a decent income from what we've worked our whole lives to save. And preferably before our physical condition is such that we can't enjoy the fruits of our labors. I don't want to work until I can't stand up.

But strangely enough, pretty much everything you point out is covered by some sort of product liability and the frivolous suits abound making the cost of a bicycle today more than what a Volkswagen cost in the 60's. Shutting down law schools for 10 years might just unload the system of some of the deadbeats with law degrees that still live in their parents' basement and play XBox all day while waiting for the government to make me to pay off their loans for a degree they can't use because they can't pass the bar. But, that isn't what I was suggesting either.

I can climb out on the limbs of extreme logic, too, but that is not my intent, and I'm usually pretty aware about which side of me I should be sawing on. My intent is to provoke thought (just the thoughts, not the feelings) for rational and logical changes, not more give-away programs for so many that don't deserve it at the cost of those that have already paid for it.
 
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aaluck

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I think the real point is we should hold ALL politicians and every branch of Government to a higher standard and stop letting Big Pharma and Big Oil and Big Insurance lobby our futures away. Stop letting the FDA release drugs that KILL people. I don't have all the answers, but if the CEO of Moderna was charged with homicide for each person that died from the vaccination, ......
Let's not get crazy here.... Yes, without question, Big Pharma/Insurance/oil take advantage of all of us and do whatever they can to rob us blind. And yes, like you, I believe ALL politicians suck. However, they also keep millions of folks alive with drugs (type 1 diabetes as an example).

There is no requirement (yet) to take the vaccination just as there is no requirement to take medication for high blood pressure or whatever ails you. In fact, you can sell your tractor and cars to make sure you don't support Big Oil. You can even cancel your insurance and hope nothing ever goes wrong.

Also if you think Big Anything is going away, guess again. In a year they will control the country and what your allowed think and talk about.
 

Old_Paint

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Let's not get crazy here.... Yes, without question, Big Pharma/Insurance/oil take advantage of all of us and do whatever they can to rob us blind. And yes, like you, I believe ALL politicians suck. However, they also keep millions of folks alive with drugs (type 1 diabetes as an example).

There is no requirement (yet) to take the vaccination just as there is no requirement to take medication for high blood pressure or whatever ails you. In fact, you can sell your tractor and cars to make sure you don't support Big Oil. You can even cancel your insurance and hope nothing ever goes wrong.

Also if you think Big Anything is going away, guess again. In a year they will control the country and what your allowed think and talk about.
Howdy neighbor. I'm just right up the road in Helena, just west of Pelham.

I think we're actually saying the same thing. I'm a firm believer in free enterprise, but when the commodity being supplied is not just a want, but a NEED, then there needs to be at least some control on that greed. There was NEVER any reason gasoline should have hit $4.00+ per gallon after Hurricane Katrina, and open season should have been declared on oil executives much like bread scalpers and looters. The government steps in to control pricing on bread, water, milk, sugar, etc during times of crisis, so why not gasoline? Oh, so transportation fuel is more expensive, so it's ok for grocery prices to go up (some). Any time any part of our country (or all of it) goes into crisis mode for pandemic or disaster, there should be a ZERO percent price increase on ANYTHING until that crisis is over.

As for your comment about Type 1 Diabetes, I'm all too familiar with that. We can buy round-trip tickets to Australia, buy a YEAR supply of insulin, stay for three weeks with family and have a good time for less than it costs for 90 days insulin here. There's something wrong with that. Especially considering the insulin we had to buy DownUnder was EXACTLY the same brand she buys here. AMERICAN made insulin. Less than half the price of ONE pen of Novalog here gets you five CASES, 5 pens per case, of exactly the same medication there. Theres something SERIOUSLY wrong with our healthcare system when I have to pay more for insurance to cover 13 million non-paying bludgers that the current regime wants to give a free pass.

You were almost wrong about the vaccination. Foreign travel to most countries, especially the UK or it's territories now requires a negative test before a visa is issued, and another before exiting the country being visited. I don't think I want to get in a tin can for nearly 30 hours to go to Oz at the moment anyway. That's a lotta recycled air.

I'm more of a moderate than either extreme. There can be a balance with moderation it's pretty obvious that Novalog is cheap to make if it can be GIVEN away in Australia. There's no excuse for the outright robbery of our healthcare system. What insurance companies now legally get away with put a lot of mafia figures in jail in the 1930's. They called it extortion and racketeering back then.
 
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aaluck

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As for your comment about Type 1 Diabetes, I'm all too familiar with that. We can buy round-trip tickets to Australia, buy a YEAR supply of insulin, stay for three weeks with family and have a good time for less than it costs for 90 days insulin here. There's something wrong with that. Especially considering the insulin we had to buy DownUnder was EXACTLY the same brand she buys here. AMERICAN made insulin. Less than half the price of ONE pen of Novalog here gets you five CASES, 5 pens per case, of exactly the same medication there. Theres something SERIOUSLY wrong with our healthcare system when I have to pay more for insurance to cover 13 million non-paying bludgers that the current regime wants to give a free pass.
Bingo neighbor!! When I see the breakdown of "how much I saved" with my BCBS I laugh and cry at the same time--its like $980.00. With my wife's blood pressure medication its like $1,800--both for a MONTH.
 
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Old_Paint

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Bingo neighbor!! When I see the breakdown of "how much I saved" with my BCBS I laugh and cry at the same time--its like $980.00. With my wife's blood pressure medication its like $1,800--both for a MONTH.
That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. How can the same brands/packaging be FREE in Australia, and cost $1800 here, especially when it's made here? There is no logical in this other than the Government allowing unbridled greed on something that is completely necessary to sustain life. I don't have a problem with high prices on unnecessary drugs or vitamins, or elective surgeries. I do when it comes to a life saving drug or procedure. It isn't like the patient really has a choice.
 

armylifer

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That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. How can the same brands/packaging be FREE in Australia, and cost $1800 here, especially when it's made here? There is no logical in this other than the Government allowing unbridled greed on something that is completely necessary to sustain life. I don't have a problem with high prices on unnecessary drugs or vitamins, or elective surgeries. I do when it comes to a life saving drug or procedure. It isn't like the patient really has a choice.
Maybe the Australian government is subsidizing the drugs you are talking about. Could that explain why it is "free" over there and not here?
 

Old_Paint

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I wouldn't think so, but then again, they do have socialized healthcare. Which works.
 

aaluck

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Maybe the Australian government is subsidizing the drugs you are talking about. Could that explain why it is "free" over there and not here?
Possibly. But as a person with a type 1 diabetic in my family I can tell you its highway robbery. Think about it -- ONE prefilled syringe holds 3mL, which weighs .1 oz. They come in a five pack for a total of .5 (one-half) oz of medication--so an ounce is $3,600. it's more than TRIPLE the cost of GOLD and need to be purchased once a month.

When I was a Marine I never realized the cost--never had to worry about it. Now as a business owner with my own insurance (which by the way costs $1,987.00 a month of a family of four--yeah $24,000 a year!!) I can tell you something is amiss.

@Old_Paint may be on to something. I thing WE are the ones subsidizing it for the rest of the world.
 
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Old_Paint

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@Old_Paint may be on to something. I thing WE are the ones subsidizing it for the rest of the world.
BINGO! Give that man a cookie! Or a beer if you need to avoid the sugar. Maybe some sugar free cookies? (AKA Cardboard). ;)
 

D2Cat

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BINGO! Give that man a cookie! Or a beer if you need to avoid the sugar. Maybe some sugar free cookies? (AKA Cardboard). ;)
The fallacy in your comment Old Paint is whether the reward is a cookie, a beer or sugar free cookie, or a saltine cracker the body turns all of that into carbohydrates (sugar) for energy. So no matter what is consumed it will require more insulin, and that is what you're complaining about !!!!
 
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Old_Paint

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The fallacy in your comment Old Paint is whether the reward is a cookie, a beer or sugar free cookie, or a saltine cracker the body turns all of that into carbohydrates (sugar) for energy. So no matter what is consumed it will require more insulin, and that is what you're complaining about !!!!
Don't recognize irony or sarcasm when you see it, do you?
 

armylifer

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I trust you have proof of this? Or just B.S. talk?
How is this? Here is an excerpt from an article on Christianity today. I doubt that you will take the time to read the whole thing so I copied and pasted two paragraphs. I also included a link to the article.

The institute distinguishes between vaccines like Moderna and Pfizer that used the cells for testing to confirm the antibody response and others that rely on the abortion-derived fetal cells to produce the vaccine itself.

Though they are not yet approved for use in the US, the AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson vaccines used the old fetal cell lines to develop and create the vaccine itself, as well as in lab testing. AstraZeneca’s vaccine was approved in four countries in the last week. Both companies have signed an agreement with the recently formed global consortium COVAX to distribute vaccines to low- and middle-income countries. Their vaccines are also cheaper, making them more accessible for some countries.


Here is another article concerning the development of vaccines from so called immortalized human fetus cell lines. These articles and many more explain the use of these immortalized cell lines in the development of the vaccines. Changing the names of the cell line does not negate the fact that a human fetus was used in development of the vaccines. Of course, some people don't mind that little fact but I do, as I am sure that others do too. Do what you will with the information but what you do is on you come judgement day.


BTW, I chose these two articles because they are from a Christian source. There are many other articles such as the one from USA Today but I normally choose not to visit their site. I did in just this one case so you can see the news from a godless source too. Since you may not want to read far enough to reach the relevant paragraphs I will past them below and the link to the story below that.

When it comes to the COVID-19 vaccines, at least five candidates undergoing clinical trials use fetal-derived cell lines: from China's CanSino Biologics, the University of Oxford partnered with AstraZeneca, Janssen (a subsidiary of Johnson & Johnson), the University of Pittsburgh and California-based ImmunityBio.

HEK-293, used by four of the developers, is a kidney cell line derived from a fetus aborted in 1972. PER.C6 is a proprietary cell line owned by Janssen that was created from eye cells from an 18-week-old fetus aborted in 1985, according to Science.


Again, there are many sources to find this information if one wishes to educate themselves on the subject of using fetal cell lines in the development of vaccines in general, not just the covid vaccines.

So, no BS Talk.