Able to lift the FEL by hand?

[catalyst]

I was doing some driveway maintenance and when I was back dragging some gravel with the bottom of the bucket, I noticed that the bucket sort of flopped back up and didn't drag properly. I got off the tractor and was able to lift the bucket by hand like there was a partially empty hydraulic cylinder. I could lift it up and it would just drop back down. RPM's were in the PTO range, so it had power. I moved the curl function a bit and it firmed back up again, but this problem repeated itself a couple of more times. It seemed to happen during a certain range of movement in the curl function. Is this normal? I don't remember it ever acting like this, and thought that the bucket was always firmly in place throughout the entire range of motion.

There is still pressure, because the curl will lift and hold the tractor.

Last year the dealer had replaced the hydraulic return line under warranty and before that, one of the rear axle seals slipped out and spilled a bunch of SUDT-2 (which was replaced). Could there be an air pocket in that cylinder or something?

 

[SRRGC1]

I think it would be usual for a air pocket to develop as the hydraulic pressure would push any air out. I never had an issue when replacing hyd. lines. May just be the nature of the loader valve. What does your dealer say about that issue?

 

[Dave_eng]

I was doing some driveway maintenance and when I was back dragging some gravel with the bottom of the bucket, I noticed that the bucket sort of flopped back up and didn't drag properly. I got off the tractor and was able to lift the bucket by hand like there was a partially empty hydraulic cylinder. I could lift it up and it would just drop back down. RPM's were in the PTO range, so it had power. I moved the curl function a bit and it firmed back up again, but this problem repeated itself a couple of more times. It seemed to happen during a certain range of movement in the curl function. Is this normal? I don't remember it ever acting like this, and thought that the bucket was always firmly in place throughout the entire range of motion.

There is still pressure, because the curl will lift and hold the tractor.

Last year the dealer had replaced the hydraulic return line under warranty and before that, one of the rear axle seals slipped out and spilled a bunch of SUDT-2 (which was replaced). Could there be an air pocket in that cylinder or something?

This reply is an educated guess.

Possibly your loader has a "quick dump," feature which as the name implies allows a loaded bucket to dump faster than if its movement where being controlled by hydraulic output from the main pump.

This feature takes place within the loader valve and directs fluid from one end of the bucket cylinders to flow into the opposite end of the same cylinder resulting in faster dumping.

This feature was developed to overcome the "floppy bucket" syndrome which happens when the pump could not fill the end of the bucket cylinder as fast as the weight of the material in the bucket could cause the bucket to dump.

What this youtube video and see if it matches your symptoms.

youtube


Dave

 

[catalyst]

After watching that video, it almost feels like the bucket curl is stuck in some type of "float" setting, despite the stick not being pushed all the way forward into the float feature, since the bucket is still 2 feet off the ground.

I have not yet talked with the dealer. I was hoping to avoid a costly visit.

 

[Old_Paint]

Pushing the stick forward would (should) put the boom in float, not the bucket curl, unless you swapped the boom and curl functions with the hoses, or the dealer stacked the valves wrong. There is a distinct latching detent for floating the boom and it will actually hold the lever forward to vent both ends of the boom cylinders to tank (transmission case). Even with the long stick, the detent on my LX2610 is very pronounced, and in fact, hard to pull it back out. I'm assuming this will get a little easier with age and wear. This mode is to avoid breaking the curl cylinders if you have the bucket curled too far forward and you're trying to backdrag. It just lets the weight of the bucket and boom do all the work. As described, the quick dump is normally pushing the stick to the far right, which vents the curl cylinders, but there is no latched detent for that and the curl motion should not stay in a "quick dump" mode. Be aware, that if you push the lever to put the boom in "float" it's gonna come down REAL fast if you have it raised. There is no restriction in the head-end of the cylinder when it vents. This is also useful if you find yourself in a tipping situation, assuming all your brain power doesn't go into controlling your sphincter muscles as the tractor is rolling to it's side. This is probably what would happen to me. That I can think of, the only reason for the bucket to freely move is quick dump, and that's a temporary position for the valve. It doesn't latch. At least not on the valve used on the LX series and LA535 loader.

 

[Justasquid]

I would inspect the quick couplers. Pop them off and look down inside the female side. Sometimes, the O-ring becomes damaged and will allow pressure to be release. Also, sometimes, a coupler not fully seated can cause odd problems. I would also inspect the hose that was replaced to make sure everything is still tight.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You have broken a cylinder!
You should never back drag with the loader curled under!

 

[random]

You have broken a cylinder!
You should never back drag with the loader curled under!

Would you mind elaborating please? What does that do?

 

[RCW]

Would you mind elaborating please? What does that do?

random - - comes up occasionally.

This is a short thread I found. There are others. Problem arises when curl cylinder(s) are extended way out and backdragging:

Bent rods in FEL bucket cylinders

Well, my education into the FEL 1150SG loader bucket curl malfunction on the used L48 continues.... the used dealer called today and said both rods in the bucket cylinders are bent. I expected the relief value to not let that happen? Well, I guess that assumes there is a relief valve in that...

www.orangetractortalks.com

 

[D2Cat]

Would you mind elaborating please? What does that do?

The back dragging with the bucket rolled all the way back extends the cylinders fully and when something solid is snagged there is too much pressure on the cylinder rams and they tend to snap.

 

[catalyst]

I am aware of this issue and it was not anywhere near fully extended when backdragging.
None the less - how do I check / verify a broken cylinder? Wouldn't a broken cylinder either be always broken or not? Not sometimes broken and sometimes not?

The quick connect o-rings would likely be a non issue. I've had the whole FEL off 1 time. with the Skid steer attach bucket, it is just easier to leave the FEL on, and take the bucket off for mowing my lawn.

 

[Dave_eng]

I am aware of this issue and it was not anywhere near fully extended when backdragging.
None the less - how do I check / verify a broken cylinder? Wouldn't a broken cylinder either be always broken or not? Not sometimes broken and sometimes not?

The quick connect o-rings would likely be a non issue. I've had the whole FEL off 1 time. with the Skid steer attach bucket, it is just easier to leave the FEL on, and take the bucket off for mowing my lawn.

If your loader has two bucket cylinders, it can be confusing when one of the two is damaged.

To verify which one, you could disconnect and cap the lines on one cylinder and see if the floppy condition goes away.
Remove the cylinder whose lines are capped or a lot of oil will squirt out as the bucket moves.
If the floppy condition remains then the remaining operating cylinder is the damaged one.

Dave

 

[catalyst]

I own a newer BX1880. This has a larger single cylinder.

[update]
just as an update. ive put 5-6 more hours on it and haven't had a single issue. i dont know what caused the issue initially, but i cannot get it to repeat the problem. looking at the loader cylinder, there seems to be no issue. it has a smooth cycle throughout the entire range of motion. if it happens again, i'll be sure to grab a video and update the thread.