2017 X1100C RTV has HYDRO hesitation- Dealer says Needs NEW TRANSMISSION!

[JFK2MAN]

Before my warranty was up I brought this RTV in to check the HYDRO because it was hard to shift. They adjusted the charge pressure and sent me home an hour away. The transmission then developed this Hydro hesitation deal where starting, stopping, and going down hills made it very uncomfortable to drive. I brought it back in and they found metal in the oil and declared the transmission was bad, ordering a new one under warranty. This one worked fine for a year or so and I brought it in for normal maintenance, I.E. oil and filters. They discovered bad ball joints so the total bill was $1000. When I picked it up, the transmission hesitated when I engaged the forward speed control (Accelerator). This occurred starting and stopping and on hills. They told me in my last experience with this that air in the system after filter changes might be the issue so I drove it up and down the road and to the field and back a few times. The problem got worse. I called the dealer and told them What happened so they sent a truck and hauled it in. A week later I finally heard from a technician saying he was about to start checking it out and asked me what it was doing. He also told me he saw there was 20 hours on it since they did the last maintenance. I only could have put maybe 5 on it to include idle time. I tried contacting the dealer again, left a message with the tech and then two with the GM of the store with no further response. Today I got a Service quote in my email for a part #K7731-14043 PA KPA - ASSY HST,T-24,71,C * 1.0000 $5,191.40! No call, just a quote with no explanation. THis will be the third Transmission in three years for a three year old machine.

First- Are these machines this unreliable?
Second-Does the dealer have a service issue?
Third- How should I approach all this?

Sorry this was so long but it looked like some of the best responses to this type issue came from this forum!
Thanks for your experienced advice!

 

[Omega123]

Red flag to me is no return calls from both service o Gm. Unless you are beating the heck out of your machine the trans should last more than 20hrs. I would dig into this further in person.

 

[Cathy Liebchen]

Replace with Kawasaki Mule instead

 

[lugbolt]

rare to have to replace an hst. Very very very rare. In 30 years I did ONE and that--was questionable, directed by Kubota to replace it (first gen RTV900).

They are fully rebuildable and I'd question why they think it needs a new unit. What part is bad, and why did it fail? That--is the question. Without knowing what caused it, in my educated opinion you are tossing about $5000 into the wind. The cause of multiple failures needs to be addressed before anything else at this point.

Suction leak somewhere? Or, a low fluid level issue-or potentially a fluid quality issue, perhaps result of filtration and/or fluid heating. There are two fluid reservoirs on the X1100's perhaps one was underfilled? Cooler plugged? What kind of metal are they finding in the fluid? Steel? Brass? That will dictate where the failures are, and might clue us into the source of multiple failures.

Only X1100 issue I seen was the trans plate would break/leak, but those were not common and factory defective--with a bulletin and warranty extension given by kubota to help with the cost of repairs.

Due to the complexity of the HST in the X1100's, some techs don't care to break them open to find the source of problems. I did because the customer deserved to know, and anyone who had multiple failures deserved to know where they (or whomever) went wrong. Multiple HST failures just don't happen unless something isn't right and what I mean by that is something is nowhere near right, like bass ackwards, abused, neglected, wrong, or whatever. HST's don't just fail without help.

 

[whitetiger]

Before my warranty was up I brought this RTV in to check the HYDRO because it was hard to shift. They adjusted the charge pressure and sent me home an hour away. The transmission then developed this Hydro hesitation deal where starting, stopping, and going down hills made it very uncomfortable to drive. I brought it back in and they found metal in the oil and declared the transmission was bad, ordering a new one under warranty. This one worked fine for a year or so and I brought it in for normal maintenance, I.E. oil and filters. They discovered bad ball joints so the total bill was $1000. When I picked it up, the transmission hesitated when I engaged the forward speed control (Accelerator). This occurred starting and stopping and on hills. They told me in my last experience with this that air in the system after filter changes might be the issue so I drove it up and down the road and to the field and back a few times. The problem got worse. I called the dealer and told them What happened so they sent a truck and hauled it in. A week later I finally heard from a technician saying he was about to start checking it out and asked me what it was doing. He also told me he saw there was 20 hours on it since they did the last maintenance. I only could have put maybe 5 on it to include idle time. I tried contacting the dealer again, left a message with the tech and then two with the GM of the store with no further response. Today I got a Service quote in my email for a part #K7731-14043 PA KPA - ASSY HST,T-24,71,C * 1.0000 $5,191.40! No call, just a quote with no explanation. THis will be the third Transmission in three years for a three year old machine.

First- Are these machines this unreliable?
Second-Does the dealer have a service issue?
Third- How should I approach all this?

Sorry this was so long but it looked like some of the best responses to this type issue came from this forum!
Thanks for your experienced advice!

You said, "It was hard to shift". Was it the Range lever that was hard to shift? If so, that has nothing to do with charge pressure, that is the Dump Valve adjustment.
Did they tell you what PSI they set the charge pressure at? What the charge pressure is set at makes a huge difference in the way the hydrostat works.
Did you check the hydraulic oil level in the reservoir under the passenger seat? That is what supplies the hydro. The yellow dipstick in the trans/axle is for lubrication of the trans/axle gears and bearings only, it has nothing to do with the hydro.
With the oil level higher than the charge pump and filters, the air is bleed out of them immediately upon starting the engine.

The hydrostat in RTV's are a very dependable, trouble-free unit and makes the diesel RTVs many times the workhorse that the other brands with their belt drives are. We have sold probably a hundred X series RTV's and have only had a few hydro problems. A lot of the units we service have 3000 plus hours on them also. I serviced a Pipe Line service unit a few weeks ago with over 6000 hours on it, hydro worked great.
It sounds like you need another dealer to access the unit, sounds like your dealer is over his head on this unit.

 

[JFK2MAN]

Thank you all for these reply's! I am really bothered (worried) about this issue and needed your informed opinions. I am a retired industrial technician. I know all about controls and what it takes to operate million HP steam turbines pushing out over 900 MW's of power to our homes and businesses but I haven't much experience on these RTV's other then I've seen them for years at all the plants I've worked at. Your first hand knowledge and wisdom is invaluable to me. As I suspected, your comments mirror my questions and concerns. I bought this unit so I could keep living in Minnesota, on our 60 acres, in the winter! Having a reliable work horse and a warm cab keeps me in the game. I'll keep you posted on this and as I said, I REALLY appreciate your time and effort answering my post! jfk

Edit: I just got a call from the tech that has been working on this... He said that they opened it up and found no metal particles, just some wear. Asked me if I do a lot of plowing with it. (Just my driveways and only used it twice for two small snowfalls this winter Last winter it seemed every day). Then he said it just doesn't build any charge pressure and that it has no power but it is back together and can be driven. He said he is going to try to get to Kubota today for advice and that he was going to try to fight for me... My thot's are since I am a technician, if I were him I would be wondering what the rest of the story was with me and I ask myself if I am using this vehicle more than is intended? I drive all over my 60 acres, I warm it up when I move it in the mornings when it is cold out just so I make sure it doesn't condense moisture on the inside (something from my past), I plow snow on my driveways, one dirt, one cement, and around the sheds and sawmill, I pull a small two section drag around the field once in a while to knock down the gopher mounds, we drive up and down the road or on our trails, last but not least I sometimes pull my wifes mower out of the soft bog she likes to mow... Where is my abuse?
jfk