1999 B21 won't start..

[bsmart]

This has happened a couple of time now. A few days ago I ran it for half an hour, shut it off, and tried to re-start it, but no go. Starter turned over just fine, but engine acted as if it wasn't getting fuel. No sign of exhaust gas or air pressure. Tank was full of fuel, and the filter/bowl was full of fuel. I dropped the bowl to check fuel flow and there was plenty flow.
So, what beyond the bowl is keeping the fuel from getting to the engine?
I let the tractor sit for about half an hour while I pondered what to do. I looked for anything in the fuel line path, but saw nothing. Jumped back in the seat to re-try and it just started up.
Today it is acting the same way again, but this time it hasn't started again. I'll try it again tomorrow and see what happens.
Any ideas??

 

[L35]

Is the fuel shutoff solenoid actuating?

 

[bsmart]

Well, that's a very good question. I can sometimes hear a SNAP sounding like a solenoid core, but I'm not always in 'tune' with listening for it. I have noticed that sometimes I hear a SNAP soon after turning on the glow plugs and sometimes much later after the glow plugs are ON. Maybe 90 - 120 seconds after they're on. So is this an engine block temperature related interlock determining when the fuel shutoff solenoid is actuated? This is a rental tractor, so I'm not that familiar with the inner workings of it. thanks

 

[L35]

It’s on the right side of the engine by the injection pump. Engine temp will have something to do with glow plug pre heat but not the FSS. May. be time for a call to the rental company if your not familiar with the machine. There may be a problem with the glow plug controller if the plug light illuminates anytime past when the engine is running.

 

[bsmart]

Well it's rented from an acquaintance not a rental company. So can the FSS position be seen to change when it actuated? I didn't realize you could see the solenoid core move. That would be really helpful if it can be observed moving. Or if there is an indicator in it to show OPEN or SHUT. I see only 1 electrical device in that area, so that must be it. But, it's some distance from the pump back toward the dash panel,

 

[bsmart]

Ok, I was reading another article on this Site with similar symptoms.
It appears that the FSS has 2 internal coils, 1 for START and 1 for RUN. When the ignition key switch is in the START position, there should be an audible SNAP of the solenoid core movement to allow the fuel rail to admit fuel to the cylinders. Then after the engine starts, and the key is released to the RUN position, the solenoid should remain energized by the other coil to keep the fuel rail in the RUN position. From that thread it sounds like there should be no delay in these actions.... waiting for the glow plugs to warm the engine block.
Another 'trick' mentioned was to remove the FSS from the block, and the engine should START, but would have to be shut down with a manual lever somewhere near the FSS. I don't know where that is yet.

 

[jaxs]

Ok, I was reading another article on this Site with similar symptoms.

Another 'trick' mentioned was to remove the FSS from the block, and the engine should START, but would have to be shut down with a manual lever somewhere near the FSS. I don't know where that is yet.

You should see a wire from FSS moving manual lever each time solenoid acts.

 

[L35]

My fss shaft is visible, I’m not sure about the smaller B21. Can you share a image? It should look like this, and I believe the fss is just to the left of the green arrow hidden behind the black tube that’s in this pic I found online.

 

[DustyRusty]

Considering that you don't own the tractor you should at least advise the owner of the problem, and let him determine how he wants to resolve the issue. That way, you can't be blamed for any other issues that arise in the future with this tractor. If it isn't your tractor you shouldn't be the mechanic unless you receive permission from the owner.

 

[bsmart]

Well, thanks for all the input on this issue. That's a great pic of a mighty clean engine. I've not been back here for a month so hadn't seen this pic before.
I've been just living with the situation, and once I get it started I don't turn it off until I'm finished for the day. It's a pain....but what I did notice the other day when trying to get it started was, the FSS solenoid 'snapped' immediately (open) when the key was placed in the glow plug position, but while waiting for the block to warm up, I heard it snap again (shut) after about 20 seconds. When I tried to start it after about 2 minutes of glow plug, it obviously had no fuel to the engine, no exhaust gasses. I waited tried to start it again a couple of times.... no success b/c I never heard the FSS snap again. I came back a few minutes later and tried again, and I heard the FSS snap and it fired up after cranking maybe 30 seconds.
Thinking back, this isn't the first time the FSS has acted this way. Any ideas on why its behaving this way?
I'll see if I can get a pic of the FSS and surrounding piping etc. I don't see any manual lever in the area though. thanks again

 

[fried1765]

Considering that you don't own the tractor you should at least advise the owner of the problem, and let him determine how he wants to resolve the issue. That way, you can't be blamed for any other issues that arise in the future with this tractor. If it isn't your tractor you shouldn't be the mechanic unless you receive permission from the owner.

I just wonder how many owners here would "rent" (or loan?) their tractor to a friend.
IMHO,..... either.....is a terrible idea!

 

[L35]

Well, thanks for all the input on this issue. That's a great pic of a mighty clean engine. I've not been back here for a month so hadn't seen this pic before.
I've been just living with the situation, and once I get it started I don't turn it off until I'm finished for the day. It's a pain....but what I did notice the other day when trying to get it started was, the FSS solenoid 'snapped' immediately (open) when the key was placed in the glow plug position, but while waiting for the block to warm up, I heard it snap again (shut) after about 20 seconds. When I tried to start it after about 2 minutes of glow plug, it obviously had no fuel to the engine, no exhaust gasses. I waited tried to start it again a couple of times.... no success b/c I never heard the FSS snap again. I came back a few minutes later and tried again, and I heard the FSS snap and it fired up after cranking maybe 30 seconds.
Thinking back, this isn't the first time the FSS has acted this way. Any ideas on why its behaving this way?
I'll see if I can get a pic of the FSS and surrounding piping etc. I don't see any manual lever in the area though. thanks again

Either the relay or the coil itself would be my best guess.