15 degrees F no hydraulics

[Creektrails]

Hi, I'm new to Kubota, bought a used M7040 2008 this summer. Shuttle shift. Was going to move some cut timber today with the front loader at 15 degrees outside. It's not gotten above 30 for about 2 weeks here. Tractor started great but none of the Hydraulics work. I let it warm for 30 minutes and still nothing. Couldn't lift the loader off the ground and wouldn't move an inch in forward or reverse. Finally shut her down and gave up. I don't know the oil used in the transmission but I thought that I would at least get something after warm up.

Second question, if I need new tranny oil is it really 15 gallons?

 

[Dave_eng]

Sent you a pm

Dave

 

[Dave_eng]

Hi, I'm new to Kubota, bought a used M7040 2008 this summer. Shuttle shift. Was going to move some cut timber today with the front loader at 15 degrees outside. It's not gotten above 30 for about 2 weeks here. Tractor started great but none of the Hydraulics work. I let it warm for 30 minutes and still nothing. Couldn't lift the loader off the ground and wouldn't move an inch in forward or reverse. Finally shut her down and gave up. I don't know the oil used in the transmission but I thought that I would at least get something after warm up.

Second question, if I need new tranny oil is it really 15 gallons?

Make certain all hydraulic control valves are in the middle position. In cold weather sometimes one will stick in a detent position and essentially drain all hydraulic pressure for other stuff. Not being able to move is not one typical symptom caused by a stuck valve.

The brakes are not locked down by the lever above the pedals?

Lots of oil in the hydraulic system. Transmission and hydraulic system all the same reservoir.

Provide more detail about your tractor. # hours, any date(s) written on any filter, Cab or open station, FEL factory one. History of when you bought it and previous owner(s) and documents you have re servicing. # of rear remotes and any items on the tractor beside the FEL such as a grapple.

Make certain the range lever is in either hi or low range. You could have a couple of problems one being the hydraulic system and another from not being in a range gear.

Dave

 

[Creektrails]

THanks, I will gather all the info this am and reply. For now I'm not going to attempt to run her. THere should be a warm up next week and she ran good in the warmer weather.

 

[Creektrails]

the tractor is a shuttle shift and has 2150 hours on it. The two filters both say that they were changed in 2015 at 1927 hrs. The hydraulic fluid level is actually a little high on the stick and clear as glass. It is 4 wheel drive with kubota loader. I also have a box grader on the three point hitch. I usually after I park the tractor, turn it off and then drop the box grader down but I didn't let it down the last time I used it.
I bought it in the summer and I usually use it for lite farm work. I did notice that if I lug it in any gears except 1st it will lose power and I have to down shift. I figured that was from the hydraulic drive. Don't know about the former owner but it is cosmetically perfect. Obviously garage kept.
Are there any settings for the hydraulics that could be hampering it when cold?

 

[vvbigbb]

I have the same problem with my 2005 M5700 except everything hydraulically run is OK except the tractor won't move. I put a 500 Watt work light under the filter section, as close as I can get it 2 hours ago and nothing yet. It is in an unheated garage and the inside thermometer registers about 9 degrees and one foot of snow outside.

 

[jdl25]

I just came here to post a similar thread.

Following...

 

[Creektrails]

I just came here to post a similar thread.

Following...

Are your hydros completely gone? I just started mine and ran for an hour at 1000 RPM and nothing. Not even steering hydros.

 

[jdl25]

Are your hydros completely gone? I just started mine and ran for an hour at 1000 RPM and nothing. Not even steering hydros.

I wish they were. I got power steering, all my front end loader function, lift is correct. Just don't have any power at the wheels. Almost like the clutch is not disengaging. But low range first gear seems to work...

 

[Bulldog]

You may be money ahead to service it with new oil and filters so you know what's in it. So many people cut corners with their fluid and then can't understand why it doesn't perform as it should.

Can't say you don't have a problem but I know the other morning it was 10 degrees and my tractor performed as good as it does in the summer. I use Amsoil full synthetic hydraulic fluid in mine.

And for your other question 15 gallons sounds about right. My M9000 hold 22 gallons if memory serves correct.

 

[1970cs]

Or another thought, with the frigid weather is possible water in the hydraulic system is now cold enough to freeze!

Pat

 

[Creektrails]

Or another thought, with the frigid weather is possible water in the hydraulic system is now cold enough to freeze!

Pat

Thats about all that I can figure. Why would all of the hydraulics quit? Not even steering. Sounds like somethings frozen in either the pump or the filters. I will know soon enough. The weathers supposed to break Sunday. Looks like I may need a complete fluid and filter change.

 

[Dave_eng]

Are your hydros completely gone? I just started mine and ran for an hour at 1000 RPM and nothing. Not even steering hydros.

I want to point something out to you that I am not yet absolutely certain about.

This illustration from the WSM shows two hydraulic pumps which have marked #1 and #2. Dont confuse my red numbers with the ones in the illustration by Kubota.

The challenge with the two Kubota WSM's is that they do not show you a completely integrated illustration of the complete hydraulic system. The two WSM are one for the tractor and a second one for the FEL

The one for the tractor does not include the FEL as an example but the WSM for the FEL shows the FEL circuits but not a compete one for the tractor with a FEL.

From what I see the power steering hydraulic pump shares the filters with the main hydraulic pump for the 3 pt and FEL. The PS pump also serves the pto clutch and the hydraulic shuttle.

How many rear remotes do you have and are their controls working freely in the cold? The in cab levers freeze up despite their complicated design.

I am trying to decide if you have one problem or two. One problem could be frozen hydraulic filters as any water could collect there and their blockage would stop both pumps and their respective systems.

If I asked you about a detent do you know what I mean. An example I would give you would be for a woodsplitter. Many have a feature where you don't have to hold the lever to retract the push plate and cylinder. You pull the hydraulic valve lever all the way back and let go. the cylinder retracts and when it reaches the end of its retraction the hydraulic pressure suddenly spikes because the cylinder no longer can move. This spike in pressure kicks the hydraulic valve back to a neutral position.

Remote valves often have detents and detents are not all the same.
A valve staying in a detent position can cause all sorts of problems because there is no pressure for other functions.

Is your bucket self leveling?

Do you have Kubota's easy ride system for your FEL?

I would change the hydraulic filters if you get to that point and then if still having cold weather problems change the fluid. The special fluid is expensive and from your description and hours on your filters since they were changed it does not seem necessary.

You talk about the excellent appearance of your tractor in spite of it being 7 or 8 years old. I wonder if the original owner used a pressure washer on it. A bad practice unless done with great knowledge as water is forced past seals.

Cleaning around the fill plug, pto shaft and 3pt lift arms and linkages could inject water into the main transmission/hydraulic reservoir.
Dave

 

[Creektrails]

@Dave_eng I didn't realize that there were two pumps. And if they share the filters. (which I ordered two of today and will be in in the morning) then it does seem that the filters may be frozen therefore stopping ALL hydraulics. But if there is that much water in the system that the filters would freeze wouldn't that indicate the entire system has an excessive amount of water in it?
I don't believe that I have the easy ride system or self leveling. I have three rear remotes and I did run a wood splitter this summer. I cannot recall whether the remote had a detent or not. I know that my wood splitter has one built in. I really think that the problem has to do with temp. though since the transmission is also affected to the point that it doesn't even try to move when put in forward or reverse. It is as if there are NO hydraulics. I used the tractor two weeks ago in 40 degree weather and everything worked fine. Since I can't move the tractor and I don't have a pressure gauge I don't know if the remotes have any pressure or not. I will let you know tomorrow if the filters do the trick. Thanks for your insight.

 

[Dave_eng]

@Dave_eng I didn't realize that there were two pumps. And if they share the filters. (which I ordered two of today and will be in in the morning) then it does seem that the filters may be frozen therefore stopping ALL hydraulics. But if there is that much water in the system that the filters would freeze wouldn't that indicate the entire system has an excessive amount of water in it?
I don't believe that I have the easy ride system or self leveling. I have three rear remotes and I did run a wood splitter this summer. I cannot recall whether the remote had a detent or not. I know that my wood splitter has one built in. I really think that the problem has to do with temp. though since the transmission is also affected to the point that it doesn't even try to move when put in forward or reverse. It is as if there are NO hydraulics. I used the tractor two weeks ago in 40 degree weather and everything worked fine. Since I can't move the tractor and I don't have a pressure gauge I don't know if the remotes have any pressure or not. I will let you know tomorrow if the filters do the trick. Thanks for your insight.

My thinking re the filters, fluid and water. A stationary tractor is essentially a water and oil separator. The water would be on the bottom and the fluid on top. Thinking more about this, opening the drain plug slowly and seeing what comes out or not comes out would be a big clue. The drain should be at the very lowest spot and if you find ice when you remove the drain plug it will tell you a lot.

I have also been thinking about this approach but am not ready to recommend it so far. Remove the IN line to the FEL valve and direct it into a clean bucket so you can reuse. Have someone start tractor and at very low revs. If fluid comes out in steady stream it would tell a lot.
Dave

 

[Creektrails]

My thinking re the filters, fluid and water. A stationary tractor is essentially a water and oil separator. The water would be on the bottom and the fluid on top. Thinking more about this, opening the drain plug slowly and seeing what comes out or not comes out would be a big clue. The drain should be at the very lowest spot and if you find ice when you remove the drain plug it will tell you a lot.

I have also been thinking about this approach but am not ready to recommend it so far. Remove the IN line to the FEL valve and direct it into a clean bucket so you can reuse. Have someone start tractor and at very low revs. If fluid comes out in steady stream it would tell a lot.
Dave

Will pull the drain plug as well tomorrow and check for ice. Thanks

 

[jdl25]

You may be money ahead to service it with new oil and filters so you know what's in it. So many people cut corners with their fluid and then can't understand why it doesn't perform as it should.

Can't say you don't have a problem but I know the other morning it was 10 degrees and my tractor performed as good as it does in the summer. I use Amsoil full synthetic hydraulic fluid in mine.

And for your other question 15 gallons sounds about right. My M9000 hold 22 gallons if memory serves correct.

Sounds like good logic I believe I'll start here.

 

[Creektrails]

Ok, so i took the numbers off of the kubota filters and since I don't have a Kubota dealer within a pretty good distance I ordered in two filters from NAPA. WRONG size. Where in the operator or Workshop manual does it give the filter number? I guess I'll have to travel to another town for filters

 

[Newlyme]

Ok, so i took the numbers off of the kubota filters and since I don't have a Kubota dealer within a pretty good distance I ordered in two filters from NAPA. WRONG size. Where in the operator or Workshop manual does it give the filter number? I guess I'll have to travel to another town for filters

An interesting experience I had picking up hydraulic filters. And it was at my Kubota dealer.
I asked for two filters for my M4900. He brought out the wrong filters. He was confused a little when I said I thought those were incorrect. He went back in the book and then asked if I had a cab. He brought the correct ones out the second time.
I have/had no idea why a cab would make a difference in filter size.

 

[Creektrails]

Ok, I went out tonight while the temps have been in the low 40's today, cranked her up and hydros worked fine. Still tdon't know the culprit but will start looking for water in the hydro system. I'll get back when I figure it out.