12 vdc gearmotor for a snowblower chute rotater

[flyidaho]

My three point blower has worked great for years now, especially with the larger L3301 tractor I now have, but the manual rotater for the chute has always been a PITA. Anyone done a powered mod for one? I'm thinking something like this for the drive motor :https://www.surpluscenter.com/Elect...M-12-Volt-DC-600-Watt-RA-Gearmotor-5-1719.axd

I'd rather have it over powered then under, and figure $200.00 as an upper limit for the project. Cheaper would be OK also! Like this smaller motor:https://www.surpluscenter.com/Elect...otors/100-RPM-12-Volt-DC-Gearmotor-5-1649.axd

It's hard for me to convert "inch-lbs of torque" to a muscle memory, I know how hard/easy it is to rotate, but just don't have a sense of a conversion into a torque that means. The first motor has a 40 rpm rating, that sounds good, the slower the better. I love Surplus Center, and have been dealing with them for decades, so i am pretty much confining my design around whatever they have, all part of the fun of a home brew project.

Right now the hand crank shaft (about 1/2" round rod) is connected to the rod that goes to the rotater, by a short length of heavy duty rubber fuel line with good hose clamps. This functions somewhat like a u joint as it's on a angle, not straight on. Simple but effective, and the method may be my first go to attempt on getting the motor power to the rotater, andit has the advantage of being "torque limited", as if the rotater gets bounds up for whatever reason, the shaft slips in the hose, no harm done. I'll post a picture of the current setup next time I get the tractor out.

 

[shelkol]

Wow, the first motor you mentioned draws 40+ amps! You'd have to run some big wire and heavy duty switches / relays. And I think 40 RPM is to slow. Lets say it is 20 turns lock to lock, that means you are sitting in the freezing cold for 30 seconds waiting for it to turn ( I don't have that kind of patients )

I think the second motor is much better suited, it is faster and only draws about 6 amps full load

 

[Yooper]

I would use something like this if I were to build a chute rotator:https://www.surpluscenter.com/Elect...tiometer-Creative-Werks-CWLACT6P-5-1822-A.axd

 

[GreensvilleJay]

friend used an 'ATV' winch ( $30). removed most of the cable, then 2-3 turns around chute and back to drum...
there HAS to be a youtube video of this kind of setup... HE can't be the 1st guy whose done it !!
Tons of low speed power, simple DPDTCO switch.....

 

[mendonsy]

friend used an 'ATV' winch ( $30). removed most of the cable, then 2-3 turns around chute and back to drum...
there HAS to be a youtube video of this kind of setup... HE can't be the 1st guy whose done it !!
Tons of low speed power, simple DPDTCO switch.....

I did the same thing four years ago. It's working fine so far.

 

[Dave_eng]

Here is a winch motor video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSBIgnxW1Uw

Dave

 

[SidecarFlip]

You have a remote on the back If you do, a cylinder and wire rope and a bellcrank will do i. If not, get a linear actuator/ Pulls minimal amps you can add one to the chute deflector as well. Surplus Center has them pretty cheap.

 

[RBA50]

Lots of threads about this on TBN. Many folks are using power window motors or power seat motors from cars. Fairly low amp draw, seem to have plenty of torque, and reasonable speed.

 

[flyidaho]

I've been knee deep in linear actuators all day! My wheel skis on the plane use them to retract and extend the skis, and I had to do a little work on one today that I got from Surplus Center, nothing wrong with it just my application, got it fixed and I just got done ski flying.

I never noticed the amp draw of that first one I posted, that's out! No hydraulics back there, and I get enough hydraulics on my day job crane service, so electrical it will be. This picture shows the worm gear and the hand crank, and the fact that the chute is square, not round, but I guess the cable/winch idea would still work, and I have plenty of aircraft cable and the tools to work it. As for the linear actuators, I'll have to cogitate on the geometry of it all, but yes they are gutty as heck and draw little power. I thought gear motor first as it was easiest to visualize. I counted and it takes right at 40 revolutions of the hand crank to turn the chute 180 degrees. I'll watch the videos, thanks, I should have thought of that! I also noticed that no matter what I do, I need to replace the plastic "bearings" under the chute, I have some slick poly sheet, scraps from a replacement of the plane's ski after getting into some rocks last year, just under the surface, hidden!

 

[flyidaho]

I watched about 20 YouTube videos of various homebrewed chute rotaters, and decided to go with gear motor #2, largely for simplicity. It's output shaft is the same dia as my manual handle, a nice bit of mechanical serendipity. I'll use a u joint for a 3/8" socket drive, and have it direct connected, simple. It will be a much cleaner install then a winch, more compact and with no hazardous or exposed moving parts. Not the cheapest way to go, but for sure it will be strong enough. I've been wanting to get around to this little project for about the entire 15 or 16 years I've owned the blower, well before i got the L3301, so screw it, I'm in! Should be about 30 seconds or a bit less, for max direction change. The way I blow my compound, that's more then fast enough, as I only need to re aim 2 or 3 times in the 20 minutes an average snow clearing takes. I have a momentary DPDT switch coming also, just let go and it stops. It will be up to me to eyeball it in operation so I don't hit the stop and keep grinding away and break something. A limit switch would be too much hassle, maybe I'll stay with the stiff rubber hose method for the power transmission, for it's ability to give/slip when deadheaded. I'll report back when and if it works as I think it will.

 

[Orange1forme]

Not sure if it would work on this, but it could easily be tested before buying anything. Just use any drill motor on hand and see if it will spin the chute.

On my Bercomac blower, for my riding mower, I used a drill motor. I made a basic mount for it and hard wired it to a switch.

In your case, mounting surface seems like there is plenty to work with. Running the wire would be the most difficult.

 

[shelkol]

I've had a window motor on mine for years. Don't worry about the stop you probably won't break anything, it'll just stop. I do have to mod mine to keep the ice and snow from building up on the gears as that will also stall my motor.

 

[torch]

My three point blower has worked great for years now, especially with the larger L3301 tractor I now have, but the manual rotater for the chute has always been a PITA. Anyone done a powered mod for one? I'm thinking something like this for the drive motor :https://www.surpluscenter.com/Elect...M-12-Volt-DC-600-Watt-RA-Gearmotor-5-1719.axd

I'd rather have it over powered then under, and figure $200.00 as an upper limit for the project. Cheaper would be OK also! Like this smaller motor:https://www.surpluscenter.com/Elect...otors/100-RPM-12-Volt-DC-Gearmotor-5-1649.axd

I have tried 3 different motors thus far (a power window motor and 2 others) and based on my experience, I would not consider motor #2, for two reasons. First of all, it is not sealed against the weather. Moisture will get in those holes and freeze. Second, 1/30 hp is just not strong enough. It will rotate the chute when you first install it, but won't have enough power to break things free when everything is packed with snow and ice.

Motor #1 looks good though. It is advertised as totally enclosed and at 1/2 hp should have enough umph in reserve to move a frozen chute. Yes, it can draw up to 50 amps, but I suspect that is the stalled rotor current. No load current is likely much less. Worth asking about. If so, it won't draw near full current unless the chute is frozen up. Use #10 or #8 wire. I would also consider limit switches at either end of the chute rotation due to the power.

40 rpm is a bit slow, but my chute takes 21 or 22 turns of the crank to go from one extreme to the other so 40 rpm is about 30 seconds for full travel. If you are just making occasional adjustments, that's probably fine.

The ideal motor is probably something in between those two. Fully enclosed, 75 or 100 rpm and say about 1/8 to 1/4 hp.

 

[flyidaho]

I'm committed to the "second choice" motor, as in, already ordered it. Yeah the ice build up was a factor, I know in times past, hand cranking was a bit** due to ice, and was the major reason I didn't mess with the power window type less expensive units. My "thinking" at this point is to pay attention when using it, to be on the lookout for a stalled condition due to ice buildup, (it is readily visible and easy to get at) my blowing is interspersed with plowing with my front blade, and my need for rotating the chute can be done while plowing, so rotational speed isn't much of a factor. In the past, I never noticed any ice buildup UNTIL I needed to rotate, what I need to do is "preflight" the rotater gear with this new motor addition. I see that spray de-icer they sell for windshields? Or maybe even better, fly to my local big time controlled airport in town and buy 5 gallons of the de-icing fluid used there, the advantage being I now have an excuse to fly my light sport ski plane to the towered airport in town! I can see the FBO guy's face now, when I ask to buy it, no reason they can't sell me some, if I bring my own container, I know they have it. Sooner or later, it always gets back to airplanes with me. My blowing around my access road (calling it a driveway denotes suburban pavement, this is a mountain gravel lane with major wind) is one direction, around my house, another, and in front of my hangar so I can open the door, yet another, all based on what direction the tractor is moving of course, which is based on the wind direction.

As for the motor weather protection.... I have some large scraps of EPDM, rubber roofing membrane (available at any dumpster on a large commercial building project!) and depending on how the motor eyeballs, I can/will protect it with a zip tied cover of that stuff. Same with the switch for it, it will have a EPDM weather cover. The tractor is stored inside.

While waiting for the motor to show, I got my new plastic sliders installed on the rotater, using countersunk aircraft rivets (there I go again) and short of ice build up, it is as easy to rotate as it'll ever be. I can see a dedicated squirter bottle, full of de-icer fluid, right there by my engine pre heat plug, so that every time before I get it out of the shed I get a reminder to make sure the rotater is freed up.

 

[torch]

Good luck. Let us know how you make out.

I tried sealing one motor with POR-15. It didn't work.

 

[flyidaho]

My gear motor got here today, and the first thing I noticed was that Surplus Center automatically includes the paperwork for a return, which got me thinking. Thanks to Torch's wake up call, I am changing directions. I believe he is right, I had forgotten how the snow and ice (ice mostly) builds up on the chute, I dreamed up the gear motor method with the tractor in a nice warm shop, since then I have blown out twice and got a reminder. I now have a new plan....

I will return the gear motor, and eat the UPS charges, and I will now try using my DeWalt impact driver to turn the chute! I have already drilled out a 1/2" drive socket to fit the auger shaft that turns the chute, all it will take will be a bit of welding, 30 seconds worth with the MIG, to give me a sq. half inch hole my 1/2" drive universal joint with snap into, and thus into the impact driver. This impact driver is my first, I've had it for a year, and I am still astounded on how torquey it is, I wish I had bought one years ago, when they first came on the scene. As of now, until I see how it works out, I will settle for simply turning in the seat and reaching behind me to insert the driver in the socket to turn the chute, not as slick as a dash mounted switch, but I really don't need that many chute direction changes. And, it will still be much better then dismounting, walking behind, and hand cranking the thing. A backup plan will be to use a 1/2 speed crank, which will still be better then the hand crank that came with the blower. I'll report back, we are supposed to up to 16" of snow this weekend. No wiring, no breakers, no switches, and if all else fails I can still set it back up the way it was.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Linear actuator. If a linear actuator is powerful enough to operate the duck bill and net knife in my round baler under load, it's plenty powerful enough to rotate your chute, frozen or not.

My Lucknow has a hydraulic cylinder with a bell crank and wire rope to rotate it. 10 years and no issues other than a little grease on the flanges.

 

[flyidaho]

The beauty of the impact driver scheme is, NO cost. Other then the socket I drilled out, a replacement new one will cost less then 10 bucks, and the impact driver won't live on the tractor, will still be a shop tool, it will just be carried out and used as needed. Many times I clear snow with just the front blade, just the big dumps combined with high winds make me need the blower, and having an easier to actuate chute is really just a luxury, so all the better not to dump 1 or 2 hundred bucks in the project. Changing the push pull of an lin actuator to rotating motion would be complicated by my chute being square, assuming wrapped around cables would be used.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The beauty of the impact driver scheme is, NO cost.

Sounds great, run with it and tell us how it works.

 

[orangekuby]

Feel free to copy my idea. I'm not sure how your exact setup works, but this one was simple and cost me a $25 motor (plus whatever bracket I make instead of the zip ties). The seat track motor has plenty of power when the chute gets iced up, and 190RPM is the right speed to move it quickly, but not too quickly.