North Idaho Wolfman
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Staff member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
10 hr. Service for L3901
- Thread starter ArtinAz
- Start date
Rcflyer330
Active member
Equipment
Kubota B2650 Cab, B2779 Broom, B2782B Snowblower, RB1672 rear blade
In the grease you listed it's right in the name its a lithium complex. On most greases you need to look at the data sheet or for example amsoil its listed in data bulletin as the thickener. In the safety data sheet one of the ingredients would say bentonite clay or clay something. If you can't find it then you need to contact the manufacturer.
I will add that clay based greases are a non soap grease. That is a mistake in the first post I made.
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So if it is Lithium Complex, clay is used 100% of the time?.. Or if it is Lithium Complex there is the possibility clay is used?
So what is the downfall of clay based grease in tractor applications? Thinking FEL pins, PTO shafts and Pillow bearings and frequent grease applications.
I've already requested the MSDS sheets.
Thanks for your help.
Russell King
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L185F, Modern Ag Competitor 4’ shredder, Rhino tiller, rear dirt scoop
Back to the basics on grease:
You need a thick base and an oil mixed together.
The thick base can be clay based or lithium based or something else. There are a lot of different bases.
The base is referred to in many ways: base, thickener, soap...
Grease only has one base type, but that base type may be a complex mixture like lithium complex.
So clay based grease is not lithium based grease. As far as I know you would have to search out a clay based grease to buy it in today’s world.
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You need a thick base and an oil mixed together.
The thick base can be clay based or lithium based or something else. There are a lot of different bases.
The base is referred to in many ways: base, thickener, soap...
Grease only has one base type, but that base type may be a complex mixture like lithium complex.
So clay based grease is not lithium based grease. As far as I know you would have to search out a clay based grease to buy it in today’s world.
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There is a dealer near me but appears to be an individual with a Yahoo email. What's the difference between NLGI #1 ***2?
To get preferred pricing, looks like you need to join a membership. How many tubes do you go through a year? If its synthetic grease, would you still need to grease every 10 hours?
RCW
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
BX2360, FEL, MMM, BX2750D snowblower. 1953 Minneapolis Moline ZAU
Russell - thanks for that. I found myself at TSC this morning reading Valvoline grease tubes....
I didn’t need any, just reading labels.
A few weeks ago I said here on OTT I thought I understood grease, but obviously didn’t!
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BigG
Well-known member
Equipment
l2501, FEL, BB, Rotary cutter, rake,spreader, roller, etc. New Holland TL80 A
NLGI#1 is thinner and more for extreme cold climates or in autolube systems.
NLGI#2 is probably the most commonly used and is great for nearly all applications for the average user.
To get the preferred prices you either have to become a preferred customer or a dealer. Same pricing for both. Dealer cost a little more and you'll get a monthly magazine.
I use about 3 cases of grease a year but I have a farm and operate a little more equipment than the average home owner. In most applications I don't grease every 10 hrs. Loader for example may only get greased 5 or 6 times a year. Baler on the other hand gets greased daily but for different reason. I use this time to go over everything and grease to keep trash pushed out. Balers are in a extremely harsh environment with a cloud of very fine particles following them the entire time they're in use.
My trackhoe gets the most grease for the lowest amount of hrs used but again it's commonly used in mud and water. I don't care what grease you use when it's submerged trash and grit will find it's way in. But even here the moly grease performs great.
Hope this answered your questions.
It did, thanks.
There is a dealer in the area & said he has this - is it the same as you have?:
GPOR2CR WHICH IS THE NLGI#2 RUNS 9.00 PLUS TAX FOR 1 OR 10 15 OZ CARTRIDGES RUNS $80 OR $8/CARTRIDGE.
That was his reply to me & said it was the same product.
The quarry I worked at bought clay base grease once because it was about $100 a drum cheaper. I greased my loader every day rain or shine without exception. Even then it was not uncommon to have grease veins get stopped up once a week. This happened nearly every time on the bucket pins. Sometimes it would be so bad we would have to knock the pins out to clean the bushing. 3 or 4 people on overtime for several hrs. That $100 savings was a smart move
Our pit loader didn't get service but maybe twice a week. Wore the bucket pins out and the boom had to be welded up and line bored. Been a while but seems like it was a $10k repair. Again, that $100 was gone a long time ago.
Don't know how many bearings on our conveyers we had to replace at $1000 - 1500 each. They literally looked like they were pumped full of dirt if they were caught before complete destruction.
The straw that broke the camels back was when a bearing in the jaw crusher went down. Over $50k to repair and it was greased twice a day.
We had some lasting effect from that grease but for the most part our problems stopped after we switched to something else.
That's the same moly grease I use. Very good, honestly the best I've ever used.
If you want or need something for wheel bearings get the GLCCR which is the multi purpose grease.
It shows some grease stays where it's put and most others don't.
I guess I can see the importance of that after seeing rocks get dropped into haul trucks hard enough that the windshield was knocked out. Shock loads and pound out is real problem in certain applications.
All these posts seem to beat around the edges of the subject without effectively addressing the question “What type grease should I use?”
The answer is “It depends”. It depends on what you are greasing.
A wheel bearing (roller or tapered bearing) needs lubrication AND cooling.
A Front End Loader (FEL) operates/hinges on plain pins and doesn’t need cooling because it only operates at slow speeds but it does need high-pressure/high-friction resistant grease, which is usually addressed by an additive “Moly” (for molybdenum disulfide).
NLGI is an acronym for “Nationals Lubricating Grease Institute” which is an industry trade-group that set standards for grease. A grease rated NLGI #1 is lighter in viscosity than NLGI #2.
NLGI #2 is the most commonly used in temperate climate zones.
Grease is a combination of a soap (carrier) and oil. There are mineral types and synthetic types. Mineral are usually less expensive and suitable for most purposes. Synthetics are usually specialty-greases but are often marketed for general purpose use because of potentially higher profit margins. It is ordinarily not required for agricultural tractors. (Hence why the dealer mentioned probably was not pushing the stuff. It simply will not provide meaningful benefits over the mineral greases for most purposes. While synthetic oils have generally longer-life in internal combustion sumps they do not enjoy that benefit in most grease applications because of contamination. I.E., things that require frequent greasing are usually exposed to the elements and the benefits of synthetic oils in greases do not outlast the mineral oils because they are both equally contaminated and needful of replacement.)
The base soaps are intended for different uses. All base soaps have the same purpose which is to “hold” the oil in suspension so it will be present for the lubrication purpose. Calcium and Aluminum based greases are generally superior in wet environments such boat trailer wheel bearings. Lithium is probably the most common and universal grease and is used for all sorts of roller, tapered, wheel and sliding bearings. DO NOT mix different types of greases because the different base soaps will not mix well and the oil will either run out and leave, or it will congeal and fail to lubricate. If you select a Lithium NLFI #2 for general purpose then don’t mix a different base grease with it before first REMOVING ALL TRACE of the earlier type.
“Moly” grease is recommended for plain pins and bushings that operate under high loads. It is a good idea to use Moly grease on your FEL, then use a lithium grease on your wheel bearings, tie-rods, open gears, etc.
When Kubota (and others) recommend ten hours as the greaseing interval for a FEL is based upon Ten Hours of USE...of that FEL. It’s doubtful the average owner constantly uses the FEL whenever the engine runs, so greasing the FEL every ten hours of engine time is not likely necessary (and why most owners get by just fine doing it 5 or 6 times annually instead.)
Now, to address clay-based or “Bentone” “bentonite” greases: They are intended for a specific purpose not usually used for tractors. They are intended for conveyors and rock-crushers, etc. which operate openly in a high-contaminant, wet-weather environment where daily service is performed. Clay based grease should not be used where the bearing or bushing is enclosed because the clay will harden and block the oil passageways. Some folks have used it because it is cheap, not knowing it is “special purpose” and NOT general-purpose.
TSC greases are fine for most operators and are no different than other brands, but read the labels to determine suitability. Concierge greases are for rich people. When Bentley makes tractors.... use it. Otherwise, read the label and think about what you are really paying for.
One more thing. Color. Grease is often colored with dyes to make them appealing to the eye and to make them more obvious when contaminated. If you buy a red grease and use it, then over time it will darken and appear dirty...because it IS. Blue, Green, or clear all do the same and color as little bearing on quality. (Sorry for that PUN.).
Hope this helps.
The answer is “It depends”. It depends on what you are greasing.
A wheel bearing (roller or tapered bearing) needs lubrication AND cooling.
A Front End Loader (FEL) operates/hinges on plain pins and doesn’t need cooling because it only operates at slow speeds but it does need high-pressure/high-friction resistant grease, which is usually addressed by an additive “Moly” (for molybdenum disulfide).
NLGI is an acronym for “Nationals Lubricating Grease Institute” which is an industry trade-group that set standards for grease. A grease rated NLGI #1 is lighter in viscosity than NLGI #2.
NLGI #2 is the most commonly used in temperate climate zones.
Grease is a combination of a soap (carrier) and oil. There are mineral types and synthetic types. Mineral are usually less expensive and suitable for most purposes. Synthetics are usually specialty-greases but are often marketed for general purpose use because of potentially higher profit margins. It is ordinarily not required for agricultural tractors. (Hence why the dealer mentioned probably was not pushing the stuff. It simply will not provide meaningful benefits over the mineral greases for most purposes. While synthetic oils have generally longer-life in internal combustion sumps they do not enjoy that benefit in most grease applications because of contamination. I.E., things that require frequent greasing are usually exposed to the elements and the benefits of synthetic oils in greases do not outlast the mineral oils because they are both equally contaminated and needful of replacement.)
The base soaps are intended for different uses. All base soaps have the same purpose which is to “hold” the oil in suspension so it will be present for the lubrication purpose. Calcium and Aluminum based greases are generally superior in wet environments such boat trailer wheel bearings. Lithium is probably the most common and universal grease and is used for all sorts of roller, tapered, wheel and sliding bearings. DO NOT mix different types of greases because the different base soaps will not mix well and the oil will either run out and leave, or it will congeal and fail to lubricate. If you select a Lithium NLFI #2 for general purpose then don’t mix a different base grease with it before first REMOVING ALL TRACE of the earlier type.
“Moly” grease is recommended for plain pins and bushings that operate under high loads. It is a good idea to use Moly grease on your FEL, then use a lithium grease on your wheel bearings, tie-rods, open gears, etc.
When Kubota (and others) recommend ten hours as the greaseing interval for a FEL is based upon Ten Hours of USE...of that FEL. It’s doubtful the average owner constantly uses the FEL whenever the engine runs, so greasing the FEL every ten hours of engine time is not likely necessary (and why most owners get by just fine doing it 5 or 6 times annually instead.)
Now, to address clay-based or “Bentone” “bentonite” greases: They are intended for a specific purpose not usually used for tractors. They are intended for conveyors and rock-crushers, etc. which operate openly in a high-contaminant, wet-weather environment where daily service is performed. Clay based grease should not be used where the bearing or bushing is enclosed because the clay will harden and block the oil passageways. Some folks have used it because it is cheap, not knowing it is “special purpose” and NOT general-purpose.
TSC greases are fine for most operators and are no different than other brands, but read the labels to determine suitability. Concierge greases are for rich people. When Bentley makes tractors.... use it. Otherwise, read the label and think about what you are really paying for.
One more thing. Color. Grease is often colored with dyes to make them appealing to the eye and to make them more obvious when contaminated. If you buy a red grease and use it, then over time it will darken and appear dirty...because it IS. Blue, Green, or clear all do the same and color as little bearing on quality. (Sorry for that PUN.).
Hope this helps.
Thanks for your input.All these [/LEFT]posts seem to beat around the edges of the subject without effectively addressing the question “What type grease should I use?”
- ]
The answer is “It depends”. It depends on what you are greasing.
A wheel bearing (roller or tapered bearing) needs lubrication AND cooling.
A Front End Loader (FEL) operates/hinges on plain pins and doesn’t need cooling because it only operates at slow speeds but it does need high-pressure/high-friction resistant grease, which is usually addressed by an additive “Moly” (for molybdenum disulfide).
NLGI is an acronym for “Nationals Lubricating Grease Institute” which is an industry trade-group that set standards for grease. A grease rated NLGI #1 is lighter in viscosity than NLGI #2.
NLGI #2 is the most commonly used in temperate climate zones.
Grease is a combination of a soap (carrier) and oil. There are mineral types and synthetic types. Mineral are usually less expensive and suitable for most purposes. Synthetics are usually specialty-greases but are often marketed for general purpose use because of potentially higher profit margins. It is ordinarily not required for agricultural tractors. (Hence why the dealer mentioned probably was not pushing the stuff. It simply will not provide meaningful benefits over the mineral greases for most purposes. While synthetic oils have generally longer-life in internal combustion sumps they do not enjoy that benefit in most grease applications because of contamination. I.E., things that require frequent greasing are usually exposed to the elements and the benefits of synthetic oils in greases do not outlast the mineral oils because they are both equally contaminated and needful of replacement.)
The base soaps are intended for different uses. All base soaps have the same purpose which is to “hold” the oil in suspension so it will be present for the lubrication purpose. Calcium and Aluminum based greases are generally superior in wet environments such boat trailer wheel bearings. Lithium is probably the most common and universal grease and is used for all sorts of roller, tapered, wheel and sliding bearings. DO NOT mix different types of greases because the different base soaps will not mix well and the oil will either run out and leave, or it will congeal and fail to lubricate. If you select a Lithium NLFI #2 for general purpose then don’t mix a different base grease with it before first REMOVING ALL TRACE of the earlier type.
“Moly” grease is recommended for plain pins and bushings that operate under high loads. It is a good idea to use Moly grease on your FEL, then use a lithium grease on your wheel bearings, tie-rods, open gears, etc.
When Kubota (and others) recommend ten hours as the greaseing interval for a FEL is based upon Ten Hours of USE...of that FEL. It’s doubtful the average owner constantly uses the FEL whenever the engine runs, so greasing the FEL every ten hours of engine time is not likely necessary (and why most owners get by just fine doing it 5 or 6 times annually instead.)
Now, to address clay-based or “Bentone” “bentonite” greases: They are intended for a specific purpose not usually used for tractors. They are intended for conveyors and rock-crushers, etc. which operate openly in a high-contaminant, wet-weather environment where daily service is performed. Clay based grease should not be used where the bearing or bushing is enclosed because the clay will harden and block the oil passageways. Some folks have used it because it is cheap, not knowing it is “special purpose” and NOT general-purpose.
TSC greases are fine for most operators and are no different than other brands, but read the labels to determine suitability. Concierge greases are for rich people. When Bentley makes tractors.... use it. Otherwise, read the label and think about what you are really paying for.
One more thing. Color. Grease is often colored with dyes to make them appealing to the eye and to make them more obvious when contaminated. If you buy a red grease and use it, then over time it will darken and appear dirty...because it IS. Blue, Green, or clear all do the same and color as little bearing on quality. (Sorry for that PUN.).
Hope this helps.
I got my tractor for grading (when the roads degrade with weather) on my property, moving around dirt & gravel for the area, and using the backhoe on ocassions. In total, I'll probably be operating the tractor about 100 hrs/ year, at most, unless something else comes up requiring more.
Based on this, you're saying the synthetic would be, generally, overkill for the hours I'll using my tractor for? Right now, I have Lucas X-tra Heavy Duty NLGI #2 with polyurea that I was intending to use (haven`t opened it up yet), until conversing with bulldog. I read on a Messicks site that greases with Polyurea would be a great multipurpose for FEL joints and areas enduring high temps as well. They also indicated synthetic is exceptional, if you care to spend the extra $s.
If the Polyurea would work just as well, guess I can stick with that (was only $5 vs $9 for synthetic). I just dont want to have a huge expense down the road. I use synthetic on my Tacoma but that's a different thing altogether.
Maybe, maybe not but I'm not gonna argue the point. What I use, LE works fine for me and has for 15 years now.