L245Dt FEL front hydraulic pump and shaft problem

[TheOldHokie]

I'm pretty hard-headed, so I'd try to make the existing system work. After all, a similar system works on my L35. As @North Idaho Wolfman says, you might want to use something other than the rubber. At ~3000 rpm I'd be concerned about the shaft whipping and the rubber being too soft to restrain it. The L35 uses thin fiberglas disks. Thin steel disks, think shim stock, is used on commercial couplings, several pieces clamped together.

First, check the alignment of the crankshaft and pump shaft. Has something maybe cocked the pump relative to the crank? Is the length such that it doesn't put too much tension or compression on the disks?

Consider a filter or strainer on the tank outlet/pump suction, especially since you've had a prior problem. Filters are available at TSC et al; they are usually used on the tank return, but I think one would work on the pump suction like Kubota does.

My preference is chain couplers for the shaft and spin on wire mesh strainers with a bypass head for suction side use.

Dan

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[Russell King]

I appreciate all the help from you guys. i’m still a novice at wrenching on equipment. If there is a different system that works better. I’m willing to try it. I don’t mind the shaft. I just think it is gonna break again. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks.

Since you say you are a “novice”, the simplest solution is to use the tractor hydraulics by getting the block adapter (that you can purchase). That way you are really just putting the block on and moving (or replacing) hoses.

If it was me I would try to stick with what you have IF you can find someone to make you a suitable replacement coupling disk. Hopefully you still have the original disk that failed. I suggest that you take that to a machine shop or your Kubota service center or a local hot rod shop and see if they would make disc coupling to mount in place of the original. It must be a flexible disc (rubber, thin metal plates, fiberglass…).

Or you can get a new shaft made with a coupling (see the suggested coupling above) between the new shaft and the pump.

But the last two are a little above novice level but I think you can do either.

 

[Eaglenest]

TheoldHokie is there any chance I could buy one of those auxiliary blocks of you ?

 

[Russell King]

@Eaglenest,

Your post won’t alert @TheOldHokie that you added to this thread. You need to add the @ symbol in front of the name.

You can also send him a Private Message by clicking on his name on the left side of a post and starting a conversation with him.

This is the block you are discussing (since it was referred to in this thread) I assume.

B7100 Hydraulic block diverter (70060-00360 or 70070-00385)

Back in stock. CDN$40 plus actual shipping These are obsolete and no longer available. I have recently been contacted by a member asking if I will make him one of these after reading how I made mine. I know this comes up from time to time and would like to gauge the interest others might have...

www.orangetractortalks.com

I assume TheOldHokie will be along now to see your post above but if you don’t get a reply from him in a couple of days then you need to ask him about it again.

 

[TheOldHokie]

TheoldHokie is there any chance I could buy one of those auxiliary blocks of you ?

Send me a PM.

Dan

 

[Allegany Kubota]

As I dive into my crankshaft to FEL pump problems. The double chain sprocket couple is extremely worn, should replace both sprockets. The splines are worn off the crankshaft. Someone drilled and pinned that end. The pin, probably a 1/4 in bolt was gone. At the pump end, the key was sheared and a sliver fell out when removing. The collar has a 0.220 keyway. The pump shaft has a 0.19 inch keyway. My plan is to repin the crank, put a small key in the pump and run this a few more hours and rebuild it this winter. I need the FEL a few more hours to finish small light jobs. It sure wasn't a robust design. The tractor is a Kubota L245DT with 750 hours.

 

[TheOldHokie]

As I dive into my crankshaft to FEL pump problems. The double chain sprocket couple is extremely worn, should replace both sprockets. The splines are worn off the crankshaft. Someone drilled and pinned that end. The pin, probably a 1/4 in bolt was gone. At the pump end, the key was sheared and a sliver fell out when removing. The collar has a 0.220 keyway. The pump shaft has a 0.19 inch keyway. My plan is to repin the crank, put a small key in the pump and run this a few more hours and rebuild it this winter. I need the FEL a few more hours to finish small light jobs. It sure wasn't a robust design. The tractor is a Kubota L245DT with 750 hours.

Have you considered ditching the front pump entirely and using the tractor hydraulic system for the loader?

Dan

 

[Allegany Kubota]

Have you considered ditching the front pump entirely and using the tractor hydraulic system for the loader?

Dan

Yes, someone posted a diagram but I did not understand it enough to start that effort. I reassembled the shaft and my makeshift repair is working. I will remove the shaft and have my machinist rebuild the double sprocket and build a keyway in the shaft end and possibly even the pump shaft. I will continue to explore the tractor system. But I needed the FEL for some work now.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Yes, someone posted a diagram but I did not understand it enough to start that effort. I reassembled the shaft and my makeshift repair is working. I will remove the shaft and have my machinist rebuild the double sprocket and build a keyway in the shaft end and possibly even the pump shaft. I will continue to explore the tractor system. But I needed the FEL for some work now.

To use the tractor's hydraulic system you just install the outlet block and reroute the hoses.

Dan

 

[Allegany Kubota]

Tapping into the tractor hydraulics is the best option.

There is a block you remove and bolt on the tap block in it's place.


View attachment 162552

I'm investigating switching my front mounted FEL pump for the tractor hydraulic system shown above. The highlighted item (53) is actually the cover for the oil pressure block? 52 is the OP block? Then to plumb the replacement block to my FEL control valves looks challenging and I was wondering if someone had a picture of how they rounted those lines? Any thoughts are appreciated. My double sprocket chain coupler is shot and this looks like a goor alternative.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I'm investigating switching my front mounted FEL pump for the tractor hydraulic system shown above. The highlighted item (53) is actually the cover for the oil pressure block? 52 is the OP block? Then to plumb the replacement block to my FEL control valves looks challenging and I was wondering if someone had a picture of how they rounted those lines? Any thoughts are appreciated. My double sprocket chain coupler is shot and this looks like a goor alternative.

No. Item 53 gets removed and replaced with this. That gives you pressure out to and pressure return from the loader valve. The new block and two hoses is all it takes. EZ-PZ.



Dan

 

[Russell King]

See this thread post #1 for an example of installing the adapter block on another model tractor.

B7100 Hydraulic block diverter (70060-00360 or 70070-00385)

Back in stock. CDN$40 plus actual shipping These are obsolete and no longer available. I have recently been contacted by a member asking if I will make him one of these after reading how I made mine. I know this comes up from time to time and would like to gauge the interest others might have...

www.orangetractortalks.com

 

[Allegany Kubota]

No. Item 53 gets removed and replaced with this. That gives you pressure out to and pressure return from the loader valve. The new block and two hoses is all it takes. EZ-PZ.

View attachment 178568

Dan

I understand how your block works and where it is connected to the tractor hydraulics. My existing front pump system does not have a high pressure return. The pump provides the high pressure to the FEL valve and there is no high pressure return. Recycled hydraulic fluid is dumped into the tank which provides the low pressure return to the pump. I will need to understand my valve better to see how it could be plumbed to provide the return your block needs. Thanks for the quick reply for my questions, you have been very helpful. Would a picture of my valve be helpful?

 

[TheOldHokie]

I understand how your block works and where it is connected to the tractor hydraulics. My existing front pump system does not have a high pressure return. The pump provides the high pressure to the FEL valve and there is no high pressure return. Recycled hydraulic fluid is dumped into the tank which provides the low pressure return to the pump. I will need to understand my valve better to see how it could be plumbed to provide the return your block needs. Thanks for the quick reply for my questions, you have been very helpful. Would a picture of my valve be helpful?

You can use tank on the loader valve as the high pressure return.

Or do it right and install a power beyond dleeve in your exiting valve.

Or replace the existing valve with one that has both outlets.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

I understand how your block works and where it is connected to the tractor hydraulics. My existing front pump system does not have a high pressure return. The pump provides the high pressure to the FEL valve and there is no high pressure return. Recycled hydraulic fluid is dumped into the tank which provides the low pressure return to the pump. I will need to understand my valve better to see how it could be plumbed to provide the return your block needs. Thanks for the quick reply for my questions, you have been very helpful. Would a picture of my valve be helpful?

A picture or two of the valve showing the IN and OUT ports would be very helpful.

Dan

 

[Allegany Kubota]

You can use tank on the loader valve as the high pressure return.

Or do it right and install a power beyond dleeve in your exiting valve.

Or replace the existing valve with one that has both outlets.

Dan

The return tank on the loader valve is an open air low pressure and could not run the 3 point control valve. I did not understand the term power beyond dleeve. Replace the (loader) valve may be an option.
Question in the plumbing diagram showing 'Standard Condition' and Hydraulic Take Off, could I use port 2 from the standard condition and plumb my FEL valve to it and send the low pressure side back to the tractor tank?
The standard pressure from the FEL pump in 1,500 psi. Do we know what the tractor hydraulic pressure should be?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The return tank on the loader valve is an open air low pressure and could not run the 3 point control valve. I did not understand the term power beyond dleeve. Replace the (loader) valve may be an option.
Question in the plumbing diagram showing 'Standard Condition' and Hydraulic Take Off, could I use port 2 from the standard condition and plumb my FEL valve to it and send the low pressure side back to the tractor tank?
The standard pressure from the FEL pump in 1,500 psi. Do we know what the tractor hydraulic pressure should be?

You're getting your terms confused.
Your setup right now, goes from the tank, to the pump, to the valve, then back to the tank ( reservoir ) of the loader.
You will simply be swapping lines, the pressure line to the valve will go to the adapter block, and PB (old tank return line) will be going to the block as a return pressure line, it's not perfect but it works.
Yes you will need to change the line to a pressure rated hose.
The existing tank ( reservoir ) in the loader will be drained and abandoned.

Prefect would to change your valve to a newer valve that has Power in, Power beyond, and return.
You will need to add a port to the tractor for return,( it's usually done through the fill port).

 

[TheOldHokie]

The return tank on the loader valve is an open air low pressure and could not run the 3 point control valve. I did not understand the term power beyond dleeve. Replace the (loader) valve may be an option.
Question in the plumbing diagram showing 'Standard Condition' and Hydraulic Take Off, could I use port 2 from the standard condition and plumb my FEL valve to it and send the low pressure side back to the tractor tank?
The standard pressure from th FEL pump in 1,500 psi. Do we know what the tractor hydraulic pressure should be?

Your concerns are well founded.

The tank port on your current loader valve can be used for high pressure carry over (power beyond) but 1500 PSI is about 3x the max pressure rating on that port. Its dodgy but works acceptably in many cases.

Ideally that valve should be converted to a three port valve but the part to do that (conversion sleeve) is probably no longer available. Post a picture of the valve so we can see what you have.

You can buy a new 3 port loader valve for less than the cost of a rear PTO pump. If you cant convert your current valve thats probably the best solution. There.are many sources - here is one. That page has a good diagram showing the plumbing.

Hydraulic Directional Control Valve for Tractor Loader w/ Joystick, 2 Spool (Single Float Spool Optional), 11 GPM

This Monoblock Hydraulic Directional Control Valve uses a Joystick, 2 Spools and has a capacity of 11 GPM. These valves are used to start and stop fluid flow into hydraulic cylinders or hydraulic motors.

summit-hydraulics.com

Dan

 

[Allegany Kubota]

Your concerns are well founded.

The tank port on your current loader valve can be used for high pressure carry over (power beyond) but 1500 PSI is about 3x the max pressure rating on that port. Its dodgy but works acceptably in many cases.

Ideally that valve should be converted to a three port valve but the part to do that (conversion sleeve) is probably no longer available. Post a picture of the valve so we can see what you have.

You can buy a new 3 port loader valve for less than the cost of a rear PTO pump. If you cant convert your current valve thats probably the best solution. There.are many sources - here is one. That page has a good diagram showing the plumbing.

Hydraulic Directional Control Valve for Tractor Loader w/ Joystick, 2 Spool (Single Float Spool Optional), 11 GPM

This Monoblock Hydraulic Directional Control Valve uses a Joystick, 2 Spools and has a capacity of 11 GPM. These valves are used to start and stop fluid flow into hydraulic cylinders or hydraulic motors.

summit-hydraulics.com

Dan

Thanks, I'm slowly getting it. Attached is a picture of my current FEL valve. The supply line is where the pressure gauge is. The four lines are for the lift and tilt functions. So I could take the line that goes to the filter and connect it to the return port as shown on the previously posted hydraulic block diagram? I've previously thought of this as a lower pressure since it goes to filter on my tractor. The pressure at the gauge is 0 until the levers are operated and goes to 1,500 +/- .
What is the nominal pressure to the 3 point (control valve?) system from the pump?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Thanks, I'm slowly getting it. Attached is a picture of my current FEL valve. The supply line is where the pressure gauge is. The four lines are for the lift and tilt functions. So I could take the line that goes to the filter and connect it to the return port as shown on the previously posted hydraulic block diagram? I've previously thought of this as a lower pressure since it goes to filter on my tractor. The pressure at the gauge is 0 until the levers are operated and goes to 1,500 +/- .
What is the nominal pressure to the 3 point (control valve?) system from the pump?

New they ran 2000psi on the on board hydraulic system.
You would be better off with a new valve, but if you ran it off of this one you eliminate this (in red) and just use a high pressure hose.