A HST oil change gone wrong, what would you do?

[MapleLeafFarmer]

our retired farmers club meets over coffee and pie 6X mornings a week. We like to argue about anything farming related. All in good fun.

Today was about a guy who botched his HST oil change on a L3901 kubota tractor. He rarely uses his tractor. Mostly for driving his kids around his yard it seems. Says he does about 75 hrs use a year, seems very light duty.

So he makes a hst 4wd L3901 hst oil change. WSM says he needs 23.5l SUDT fluid. So he opens up the 2 drain bolts at the rear end and replaces both hst filters. Drains out 21 litres of oil in total. But wait book says 23.5L??? we find he forgot to open the 2 drain bolts under the engine. Was 2 1/2 litres left behind? at least he knew to measure fluid out before fluid back in.

So he makes only a partial oil change!! so new filters but only 21 out of 23.5 litres of fluid (not to mention the fluid in the lines on loader, etc....) was changed 21 / 23.5 about 90%

So what does he do is the argument after say 1 hour of driving his kids around the yard.

I say keep the new filters in place, drop the fluid (4 place drain and all 23.5 litres not just 21) and continue getting good natured ribbing from the club. Fluid is cheap.

A couple said complete start from scratch with new filter and new fluid should be made.

The majority said quit over thinking and just go with it. New filters and 90% oil (21 out of 23.5 litres) is good enough for this "gentleman farmer".

what would you do?

Most said I was wrong. 2 new filters, 21 out of 23.5 litres good enough and stop over thinking. Solution by dilution is good enough.

what say you?

 

[hagrid]

Sell the tractor.

 

[JasonW]

Two drains under the engine would be for engine oil. You must mean the two under the Transmission?

These scenarios only work if the fluid quantity is accurate in the manual. Do people really take the time to measure the amount drained?

I use the quantity listed in manuals as a guideline for how much fluid to have on hand.

Dipstick/sight glass has the final say.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

Two drains under the engine would be for engine oil. You must mean the two under the Transmission?

These scenarios only work if the fluid quantity is accurate in the manual. Do people really take the time to measure the amount drained?

I use the quantity listed in manuals as a guideline for how much fluid to have on hand.

Dipstick/sight glass has the final say.

sorry yes of course not engine oil drains the hst drains.

Measuring fluid out is kinda a local thing i guess. it was very common a while back that when you ordered a drum of oil or when a local ag. rep. came around or when a fuel delivery came in they would leave "gifts". hats and pens got old quickly. At one time Monsanto used to give battery operated calculators with hard paper rolls. Very common was banded oil pitchers to measure oil in and out. every barn probably has a dozen of them kicking around so became common place to use. a local thing i guess.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Hahaha, I had to re-read the first choice a few times…..But I think thats what I would do too.

As a matter of fact, I did EXAXCTLY that, on one of my wifes oil changes a while back.

Caution “Back story ahead”:

I was testing my “oil sucker” out a couple years ago, when I decided to change my wifes oil. Well I sucked out “all” of the oil, then cracked the filter loose and changed it.

Well when I went to refill it, it only took 5 quarts????? Long story short………You have to change the filter FIRST. Something about that engine holds a about a quart of oil if you don’t, so it only got 5 quarts, instead of 6.

Being a Rebel,….”I ran it, like I stole it”…and she is still working fine!!!!!

I vote for #1!!!!!!!

 

[Bmyers]

To my limited understanding, you never get all the old oil out. So, I take option one of your survey.

The more important question isn't if he should redo the hydraulic oil change or not, but the important question is what diesel fuel additive he is using? Without knowing this, it can make the whole hydraulic oil change or any other maintenance useless.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

wow...ok..... guess this is going to cost me a round of pie all-around tomorrow morning for being out in left field. I would have replaced the oil but kept the filters.

Not sure how those engines / transmissions layout internally but going to have to guess the rear axle drain plugs must be very close to being lowest point natural flowing down hill kinda thing in whole internal HST oiling system.

 

[Trash Panda]

Wait until you find out how much “old” ATF is left in an automotive transmission during a fluid change…

He is fine. 89.3% New fluid isn’t going to hurt anything.

 

[William1]

I'd not lose sleep over a 90% change, especially in a machine that gets light duty. You never change it all anyways. Continue to change based on runtime hours and actual years (depending on where/how it is stored).
I'm more concerned that my deer burger is medium rare.

 

[JasonW]

wow...ok..... guess this is going to cost me a round of pie all-around tomorrow morning for being out in left field. I would have replaced the oil but kept the filters.

Not sure how those engines / transmissions layout internally but going to have to guess the rear axle drain plugs must be very close to being lowest point natural flowing down hill kinda thing in whole internal HST oiling system.

What would happen if you drained all 4 drain plugs(and measured) and only got 22L out? Not 23.5L? As said before this scenario only works if the manual is 100% correct on fluid amount for a drain and fill.

Most manuals for automatic transmissions list an initial full and then a drain and fill quantity.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

What would happen if you drained all 4 drain plugs(and measured) and only got 22L out? Not 23.5L? As said before this scenario only works if the manual is 100% correct on fluid amount for a drain and fill.

Most manuals for automatic transmissions list an initial full and then a drain and fill quantity.

if it was me and I pulled all 4 plugs I would start with putting back in same that came out then fine tune from there.

I have seen a lot of manuals on farm stuff that maybe not so accurate as they should be. Someone mentioned above a great example about auto trans changes on say a F150. Drain atf fluid and only about 1/3 actually comes out as torque converter does not drain. If you added what the manual says ATF fluid capacity is (ie; not measure what comes out) you would get a huge over fill on your hands.

unfortunately he said he only pulled 2 of the 4 plugs. I was surprised he got out so much out from pulling only rear axle drains but guess these must be lowest points so he did pretty well with 90% drain. I actually thought it was BS when he told us 21l drained so that is why I thought starting again and dump the oil from all 4 spots would be warranted.

would love to hear from someone who wrenches a lot on these kinda machines to confirm if what he told us could be actually correct. At the time my first gut instinct said no way an axle drain would be so complete of entire system but i have no experience first hand.

 

[Sawdust&Shavings]

What would happen if you drained all 4 drain plugs(and measured) and only got 22L out? Not 23.5L? As said before this scenario only works if the manual is 100% correct on fluid amount for a drain and fill.

Most manuals for automatic transmissions list an initial full and then a drain and fill quantity.

our retired farmers club meets over coffee and pie 6X mornings a week. We like to argue about anything farming related. All in good fun.

Today was about a guy who botched his HST oil change on a L3901 kubota tractor. He rarely uses his tractor. Mostly for driving his kids around his yard it seems. Says he does about 75 hrs use a year, seems very light duty.

So he makes a hst 4wd L3901 hst oil change. WSM says he needs 23.5l SUDT fluid. So he opens up the 2 drain bolts at the rear end and replaces both hst filters. Drains out 21 litres of oil in total. But wait book says 23.5L??? we find he forgot to open the 2 drain bolts under the engine. Was 2 1/2 litres left behind? at least he knew to measure fluid out before fluid back in.

So he makes only a partial oil change!! so new filters but only 21 out of 23.5 litres of fluid (not to mention the fluid in the lines on loader, etc....) was changed 21 / 23.5 about 90%

So what does he do is the argument after say 1 hour of driving his kids around the yard.

I say keep the new filters in place, drop the fluid (4 place drain and all 23.5 litres not just 21) and continue getting good natured ribbing from the club. Fluid is cheap.

A couple said complete start from scratch with new filter and new fluid should be made.

The majority said quit over thinking and just go with it. New filters and 90% oil (21 out of 23.5 litres) is good enough for this "gentleman farmer".

what would you do?

Most said I was wrong. 2 new filters, 21 out of 23.5 litres good enough and stop over thinking. Solution by dilution is good enough.

what say you?

To be honest, unless you change all of the hydraulic fluid in every implement you own you’ll will not have replaced 100% of your SUDT2 either. My recommendation is to pull a pint of micro-brewed beer from your kegerator put a USDA Prime steak on the grill and get back to enjoying life as it was meant to be lived.

 

[whatsupdoc]

No such thing as a 100% oil change in a hydraulic system.

The only issue exists in your head.

 

[Tughill Tom]

Run it like you stole it! TA DA.

 

[skeets]

I was testing my “oil sucker” out a couple years ago, when I decided to change my wifes oil.
Now I'm betting this is an interesting story

 

[Sawdust&Shavings]

I was testing my “oil sucker” out a couple years ago, when I decided to change my wifes oil.
Now I'm betting this is an interesting story

I wholeheartedly agree; but then I’m never sure if Runs with Scissors is lightly embellishing his responses for our amusement or if he forgets that there are four suits in a deck of cards. To be honest I really don’t care because I am both amused by his postings while learning something new about him and the topic at hand simultaneously and it always brings a smile to my face

 

[GeoHorn]

The way I read (past tense) #1…. he drained out 21 qts and was surprised because the book says it holds 23. THEN he replaced the filters ….and it only took 21 to refill the system.

This makes perfect sense…because the two filters held the 2-missing qts when the tractor was drained….(IF Indeed the system was “full” at the begiinning….he doesn’t specify)……and the New Filters are Empty….so the sump was filled with only 21 qts … Again.

After the machine is Started…..the filters will re-fill….and THEN the system should be checked for a FULL indication….. and I imagine it will then accept the addt’l 2 qts….to bring the entire system back up to the specified 23 qts.

Vote #1…. and suggest next-day… check the level of fluid.

 

[JonM]

our retired farmers club meets over coffee and pie 6X mornings a week. We like to argue about anything farming related. All in good fun.

Today was about a guy who botched his HST oil change on a L3901 kubota tractor. He rarely uses his tractor. Mostly for driving his kids around his yard it seems. Says he does about 75 hrs use a year, seems very light duty.

So he makes a hst 4wd L3901 hst oil change. WSM says he needs 23.5l SUDT fluid. So he opens up the 2 drain bolts at the rear end and replaces both hst filters. Drains out 21 litres of oil in total. But wait book says 23.5L??? we find he forgot to open the 2 drain bolts under the engine. Was 2 1/2 litres left behind? at least he knew to measure fluid out before fluid back in.

So he makes only a partial oil change!! so new filters but only 21 out of 23.5 litres of fluid (not to mention the fluid in the lines on loader, etc....) was changed 21 / 23.5 about 90%

So what does he do is the argument after say 1 hour of driving his kids around the yard.

I say keep the new filters in place, drop the fluid (4 place drain and all 23.5 litres not just 21) and continue getting good natured ribbing from the club. Fluid is cheap.

A couple said complete start from scratch with new filter and new fluid should be made.

The majority said quit over thinking and just go with it. New filters and 90% oil (21 out of 23.5 litres) is good enough for this "gentleman farmer".

what would you do?

Most said I was wrong. 2 new filters, 21 out of 23.5 litres good enough and stop over thinking. Solution by dilution is good enough.

what say you?

I'm voiced to texting this, so forgive the grammar errors

What would I do? Just leave it, you're not getting out. All the oil anyway, unless you're doing a complete system flush. That's what the 23. Whatever liters is for that means you're flushing out all the hydraulic lines.The loader lines if any everything. it's light duty use, not a big deal.

I just did the four hundred hour service on my l6060. i did not do a full system flesh on mine. So it wasn't quite cleaned out the little bit of fluid that's left over doesn't really make any difference. Your overthinking it

 

[jaxs]

What would I do and what I would recommend are entirely different things, depending on the situation. Were it RWS asking I would say #3 and it can't wait until morning, must be done asap tonight. In this case I vote #1.

 

[Killer Bee]

first off, very common for hydraulic filter replacement intervals to be 2-4x hydraulic fluid replacement intervals. both do not inherently need to be changed together every time.

for routine maintenance with no other known or suspected contamination, a 90% or better fluid replacement along with filters is widely acceptable. especially for light duty private owner/operator use. during a routine gravity drain, fluid will be left behind inside pumps, valves, coolers, control circuits, etc. so leaving a small percentage of hydraulic fluid behind after a regular scheduled filter and fluid change is not in itself cause for alarm.

for known contamination, especially hard particles and metal from internal component failure or dirt, sand, etc. from system exposure like blown hoses in the field, full system drain, flush, and refill is necessary. that includes filters, screens, couplings, hoses, cylinders, attachments, etc. everywhere fluid communicates. after repairs of course.

good luck!