Hydraulic chute rotater

[thirdroc17]

I've had my new BX-2670 for a few snowfalls now.

When I bought it, I asked for the electric chute rotater, but the dealer suggested against it as they had had problems with them historically. Mostly due to things get icy and frozen in winter, and people have a tendency to push the switch and wait for it turn when it's frozen in place, and in doing so, burn out the motors. He suggested a manual crank, NOT an upgrade to the expensive hydraulic one, though if I wanted power rotation, that's what he'd suggest. Again, he never "pushed" the upgrade, just went with manual.

Well, the crank works fine, but I have compulsive selective participation. CSP, better known as, I'm lazy.

Now I've seen, and read about, several electric rotation systems set up and seem to work well. However, I keep looking at that handle my right hand rests on all the while I'm blowing snow. I'm using half of the directions it goes. A hydraulic rotation seems to me to be THE WAY to go. If nothing else, convenience, ease of just plugging in the other two hoses, etc.

Kubota wants over $800 for one. As much as I'd like to support my local dealer, that is simply out of my budget. Seems to me all it is is a couple of houses, a bracket, and a hydraulic motor.

Is it? I'm thinking I can still buy a few fittings and hoses from the dealer, give him some support, and still be able to afford my compulsive selective participation.

Doing a search turned up a couple references to hydraulic rotation. I think I'm on the right track. So long as nothing odd "surprises" me.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Your forgetting the spool control valve too, unless you have an extra spool valve that's not doing anything already.
Your also going to need a pressure/flow regulator, unless you want to run your shoot around at full motor speed!
Word of caution: hydraulic rotators are nice but they can also tear up equipment, brackets and parts because of their strength in a quick hurry.

 

[Kennyd4110]

As long as you can do the fabrication work to mount the motor and connect it to the crack handle, and find a suitable motor (one that turns slowly) for a reasonable price, you are on the right track. You can also add a small cylinder to the deflector for full hydraulic control of the snowblower.

 

[thirdroc17]

The spool valve is there.

I reckon a little experimenting before hooking the motor to the chute to check for speed would be in order. I think I could start by using small diameter hoses, a cost saving approach, then add a flow regulator if the hoses weren't enough restriction.

I have "basic" hydraulic knowledge, but this is my first "hydraulic" build, so if I sound stupid, it's because I am.

 

[Donystoy]

Here is a picture of my blower with the rotator that I made up when attaching the blower assembly to my tractor. It does rotate quite fast and one direction is faster than the other since the effective area on one side of the cylinder piston is less than the other side. I could put in a restrictor but I just gently operate the control. The trick is to have the rotate cable installed in such a way so that equal turning force is applied on opposite sides of the chute so that it will not bind.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Donystoy,
Nice job, I like the way you did it, cheap, simple and effective!

 

[ipz2222]

I have a JD mower with a front blade that I built for it. I used a electric window moter with the arm, problably in the early "80's, (current cars use cables), wired to a double pole switch, up and down. Blade weighs abolut 80 lbs.

 

[aeblank]

I like hydraulic for ease of use. Anyone know the flow rate of the "tilt"? How many revs of the manual crank to rotate? A small gear motor is what you need. What about travel limits, or can it go around and around now? Parker, sunsource, eaton, there are many mfgs.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[thirdroc17]

I guess I should add. It's a front mount blower, the crank operates a type of worm gear to run the chute, not the cable style.

A motor coupled to shaft right at the worm gear is really the only way to go. A simple through hole with a hairpin or something would act as a shear bolt to prevent twisting and breaking things.

I'm looking at a couple of motors on Surplus Center. One is only $50, and has a shaft excellent for the hairpin. Just need to slow that puppy down! Problem is, it's only rated to 1200PSI, the BX-2670 develops a max of 1850PSI.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydrau...otors/0-277-cu-in-CESSNA-HYD-MOTOR-9-1365.axd

However, would it every actually see the full pressure, unless it was stalled out? Does, say, hitting the end of travel with the lift cylinder, pressurize the other spool circuit? It's my understanding, most of the time the hydraulic system is operating at far below maximum pressure, the pressure only builds if and when the system is "working" against a load, like say, extending a cylinder under load, at which time it develops enough pressure to lift it, and no more, just enough to get the job done. Maximum pressures only occur when it's lifting more than it can, then it maxes out in it's attempt to do the job.

 

[Ancbill]

Here is an idea for you. To prevent tearing up something when the worm drive reaches the last tooth on the shoot. Simply cut teeth in the shoot all the around. So worst thing that would happen is you would blow snow in your face if you didnt stop the shoot rotation fast enough.

I've thought a lot about doing this to my blower too. I also suggest getting a coupler with an elastomer, placed between the worm and the hyd motor. Helps if you don't have things aligned perfectly.

 

[thirdroc17]

Ancbill, you're talking my language. I looked at the slots on the chute that serve for teeth. I plan to mark a template from existing teeth, and add to them from sides. IF they line up correctly, it'll spin all the way around harmlessly. IF it proves to be a partial tooth off when the teeth come all the way around, the "stopper" will be when it's pointed straight back.

While costly, I was planning on a lovejoy connection. While I can get it close, the odds of that perfect alignment will probably allude me.

 

[BAP]

I think you will find that motor is too fast too control for your need. Using a slow speed small motor or a hydraulic cylinder will give you better control and less likely to brake something. You might consider something like this electric right angle drive motor that is reversible. It is the same one that is used on dump trucks to operate the spring loaded automatic load tarps. These are slow motors with the gear reduction and work well. A little more money for the motor, but less overall not having to run the hydraulic lines and valve. The second link is for a switch that would work well for that motor.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electr...0-RPM-12-VDC-600-WATT-RA-GEARMOTOR-5-1719.axd
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electr...DC-50-AMP-ROTARY-MOMENTARY-SWITCH-11-3295.axd

 

[Minotbob]

I have wanted to make this modification to my BX2750D snowblower that fits on my BX24. As I was looking on Tractorbynet.com I found this thread, http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297468&highlight=Chute&p=3556051#post3556051 He provides links to all of the parts that were used.

I really like this installation and how he modified the chute by cutting nine teeth in the rotator so it can go 360º. This prevents binding and damage. Of course you can get a face full of snow if you turn it too far but I think that would be part of the learning curve.

I hope it's Ok to put a link to another forum.

 

[thirdroc17]

I am NOT interested in electric rotation. It adds complications I am not interested in messing with. I have a joy stick already there, that's only being half utilized. There are no, good, handy areas to mount an electrical switch.

The price of the motor listed above is about equal to the entire cost of the hydraulic parts I'm looking at.

A hydraulic cylinder will not provide the 270° chute rotation that's there now, much less any additional that can be gained by adding extra teeth.

I opted for a different hydraulic motor, that while more expensive, is slower, although not quite as easy to hook up.

The build listed on tractorbynet is more affordable, but does not fulfill my requirements.

If you have advice on the basic building of what I'm interested in, I'm ready to listen. Although, from what I learned on other forums, where people actually addressed my question, rather than going a different route, I'm pretty much set and ready to build. Once it warms up.

Thank you.

 

[Kennyd4110]

I've thought a lot about doing this to my blower too. I also suggest getting a coupler with an elastomer, placed between the worm and the hyd motor. Helps if you don't have things aligned perfectly.

While costly, I was planning on a lovejoy connection. While I can get it close, the odds of that perfect alignment will probably allude me.

Here's an idea for a cheap and effective coupling that would also provide some slip incase the chute got frozen, jammed with ice, or a stop limit reached: Couple the two shafts together with a piece of snug fitting heavy hose, like hydraulic hose and add simple hose clamps to provide clamping pressure one each shaft. Alignment is not critical, and it's easy to replace if it wears out.

Also, making a restriction orifice to slow things down is cheap and very easy to make, or you could use a adjustable needle valve style flow restrictor so you can fine to the speed, but they are about $40.

What motor did you decide on?

 

[BAP]

I am NOT interested in electric rotation. It adds complications I am not interested in messing with. I have a joy stick already there, that's only being half utilized. There are no, good, handy areas to mount an electrical switch.

The price of the motor listed above is about equal to the entire cost of the hydraulic parts I'm looking at.

A hydraulic cylinder will not provide the 270° chute rotation that's there now, much less any additional that can be gained by adding extra teeth.

I opted for a different hydraulic motor, that while more expensive, is slower, although not quite as easy to hook up.

The build listed on tractorbynet is more affordable, but does not fulfill my requirements.

If you have advice on the basic building of what I'm interested in, I'm ready to listen. Although, from what I learned on other forums, where people actually addressed my question, rather than going a different route, I'm pretty much set and ready to build. Once it warms up.

Thank you.

If your aren't really interested for advice from the people on this forum, then maybe you ought to stick the other forums you like to quote. On this forum, people try to help each other out by throwing out different ideas that might work for what they are trying to accomplish. Some of them are what members have already tried, and others come from past experience. Sounds to me like you already had your mind made up and just wanted somebody to agree with you that that was the only way to do it.

 

[Donystoy]

I agree that a hydraulic motor is the best option for your (OP) situation given that you have the teeth on your chute versus the cable system that I have. I was also intending on using a hydraulic motor originally as I happen to have one kicking around and would not have had to purchase a cylinder. As you stated 270 degree rotation would be difficult using a cylinder. I think I have about 200 degree rotation with mine.
You could roughly calculate out the speed of rotation required by counting how many seconds it takes for manual operation in seconds and converting it to revolutions per minute. From what I remember these hydraulic motors are listed as by how many revolutions per minute versus gallons of hydraulic fluid passing through it so by doing some math it could be roughly calculated out. For example if in my case my tractor pump supplies 4 gpm and is mated up to a pump that gives I revolution per gallon you would end up with a motor turning at 4 rpm or one turn every 15 seconds. This of course is way too slow for a chute rotator but you can do some calculation using the output of your pump to roughly figure out what the speed of any hydraulic motor would be.
With this type of rotator I would certainly try to get the teeth going all the way around as this would eliminate the need for an end stop. Without an end stop you eliminate the risk of creating the full pressure that the tractor pump is capable of and certain destruction of the teeth on the chute. If full rotation is not possible, a connection made up of a piece of rubber hose (as previously posted) would certainly be recommended as it would act as a slip clutch. Lovejoy couplers are fine for slight miss-alignments but will do nothing to stop damage from 2000lbs pressure.
With this set-up using a hydraulic motor with no end stops (full rotation), you could use the Lovejoy connection and only ever have negligible pressure in the system during operation.

 

[thirdroc17]

If your aren't really interested for advice from the people on this forum, then maybe you ought to stick the other forums you like to quote. On this forum, people try to help each other out by throwing out different ideas that might work for what they are trying to accomplish. Some of them are what members have already tried, and others come from past experience. Sounds to me like you already had your mind made up and just wanted somebody to agree with you that that was the only way to do it.

In one respect, you are right. I had decided on a hydraulic rotor for various reasons. I asked if anyone had experience building such.

There are dozens of threads on electric rotors. There was no need to start another.

I did NOT ask a wide open "How to", I asked, "How to with hydraulics." If it's not ok to remind people of the original question, rather than having them run off into left field, you just might be right again.

 

[thirdroc17]

Thank you to everyone who has gave advice.

I'm certainly hoping for 360° of chute rotation, it all depends if the teeth line up when they come together. I plan to add teeth, or maybe better said, grooves, from both sides, simultaneously. That way if they don't line up on the last one, the "stopper" will come when the snow is blowing directly into my face. If I can't stop the rotation before it's in my face, then it's going TOO fast.

There are times, I design more complicated than needed. Case in point. The hose instead of the lovejoy coupling. Woooo HOOO, simpler, cheaper, that's the kind of advice I was looking for, and THANK YOU!

Currently, I'm looking at this motor http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydrau...E-255040F3DD22AAAA-HYDRAULIC-MOTOR-9-8287.axd the math works it out as too fast. Since I can't build until spring, I'll have time to dicker with it over the summer. I'm planning on going forward with no volume control valves, instead opting for the smallest hoses and fittings, which in themselves will be restrictive. I can plug everything in, before hooking it to the blower, and run it. From there, I can determine what I'll need to do to slow things down.

Thanks.

 

[Kennyd4110]

Dale, you may have already seen these, but in case you haven't here are some great calculators to help pick a motor as well as other things realted to hydraulics: http://www.baumhydraulics.com/pages.php?pageid=4

One consideration with the motor you linked above is that it has a separate case drain port that needs to be plumbed to the tank, or presure can build up in the case and blow seals.

Also, since you have the time-set up some detailed searches on eBay, various motors show up there often.