B7800 Spring/locknuts missing from feedback bar. Replaced and Lever still floppy, bar does not reach spring

[Russell King]

Thank you


Thanks so much for guiding me on where to look next. I hopefully understand the pin situation, what is the red circled area representing?

I originally thought that the red circle was a broken bolt so I circled it. Then I looked at the parts diagram and saw there was NOT a bolt there, but it appears to be just some sort of nub sticking up. Sorry for confusing you, I meant to say ignore that.

If you look at the picture in post #11, that is a similar arrangement as you have with the “holes”. That external part has been pulled away from the tractor (towards the left) exposing the rod that goes in the tractor (towards the right). The two holes that are highlighted should be aligned and have a pin going through them to link them together. Your hole on the external part have the pin sticking out of the hole, but there is a hole 180 degrees from the pin that is probably open.

 

[Chaos2art]

And here is a tool set that is designed to remove the roll pins. Since you have an inner and outer roll pin you will need to drive the inner (locking) pin out before you can remove the outer pin.

If you get this type of tool make sure it is for metric roll pins (assuming that Kubota uses metric pins).

View attachment 177551

Thank you so much. Since my pin is horizontal I get the idea that it is sheared off and I will have to drive it out. My Irwin punches aren't metric and I get the impression the measurement must be exact, so thanks for the picture of the pin punches. I will purchase those as well. My next step as I interpret it is to use a vice grip and pull the existing roll pins out with a twisting motion. If I can't see completely through the hole I will need to use a punch and drive out the broken pin. Then I align the hole and put in the larger pin followed by the smaller pin. SHOULD THE PINS ONCE INSERTED FIT FLUSH INTO THE HOLE? Ordering the pins now since I have to get a part for my other broken tractor. Fingers crossed. Everyone - thank you so much.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Thank you so much. Since my pin is horizontal I get the idea that it is sheared off and I will have to drive it out. My Irwin punches aren't metric and I get the impression the measurement must be exact, so thanks for the picture of the pin punches. I will purchase those as well. My next step as I interpret it is to use a vice grip and pull the existing roll pins out with a twisting motion. If I can't see completely through the hole I will need to use a punch and drive out the broken pin. Then I align the hole and put in the larger pin followed by the smaller pin. SHOULD THE PINS ONCE INSERTED FIT FLUSH INTO THE HOLE? Ordering the pins now since I have to get a part for my other broken tractor. Fingers crossed. Everyone - thank you so much.

The chances of the pin being sheared off are really low, it looks like it just moved out that last little bit and became disconnected.
The new pins will fit in flush to both sides or really close to it.

 

[Russell King]

Thank you so much. Since my pin is horizontal I get the idea that it is sheared off and I will have to drive it out. My Irwin punches aren't metric and I get the impression the measurement must be exact, so thanks for the picture of the pin punches. I will purchase those as well. My next step as I interpret it is to use a vice grip and pull the existing roll pins out with a twisting motion. If I can't see completely through the hole I will need to use a punch and drive out the broken pin. Then I align the hole and put in the larger pin followed by the smaller pin. SHOULD THE PINS ONCE INSERTED FIT FLUSH INTO THE HOLE? Ordering the pins now since I have to get a part for my other broken tractor. Fingers crossed. Everyone - thank you so much.

Since it appears that your pins have removed themselves from the holes, I don’t think you need to worry with getting that set of pins. I would suggest that you try to grab the pin(s) you can see sticking out with a pair of pliers (maybe vice grip type) and see if you can wiggle the pins out of the hole. You just need to be careful about pulling hard and the pliers or pins coming loose. That would slam an elbow or wrist/hand into something that would cause some pain or injury. If that didn’t work, I would use the largest pin that matches the that matches the larger pin ( marked in green in post #18) and insert it into the hole opposite the pins sticking and try to tap them out. (There may be no room on that side to do that though).

That “special“ tool just makes it easier to start driving the roll pins out by centering the pin in the center of the tool pin and having the correct diameter to go into the hole. You are correct that the size is important, you don’t want to have the pin being driven against the surface of the hole, you want it on the shoulder of the pin. Too small a diameter would go into the pin and expand it and get the pin and punch stuck in the hole.

 

[Chaos2art]

Since it appears that your pins have removed themselves from the holes, I don’t think you need to worry with getting that set of pins. I would suggest that you try to grab the pin(s) you can see sticking out with a pair of pliers (maybe vice grip type) and see if you can wiggle the pins out of the hole. You just need to be careful about pulling hard and the pliers or pins coming loose. That would slam an elbow or wrist/hand into something that would cause some pain or injury. If that didn’t work, I would use the largest pin that matches the that matches the larger pin ( marked in green in post #18) and insert it into the hole opposite the pins sticking and try to tap them out. (There may be no room on that side to do that though).

That “special“ tool just makes it easier to start driving the roll pins out by centering the pin in the center of the tool pin and having the correct diameter to go into the hole. You are correct that the size is important, you don’t want to have the pin being driven against the surface of the hole, you want it on the shoulder of the pin. Too small a diameter would go into the pin and expand it and get the pin and punch stuck in the hole.

I was able to remove the pins and replace them with a cotter pin. I removed the extra spring. NO CHANGE AT ALL. Does that mean I'm tearing the linkage apart and looking for a pump or something? Please any other ideas?

 

[Chaos2art]

The chances of the pin being sheared off are really low, it looks like it just moved out that last little bit and became disconnected.
The new pins will fit in flush to both sides or really close to it.

I could not push the pin back in I but was able to remove the pins and replace them with a cotter pin. I removed the extra spring. NO CHANGE AT ALL. Does that mean I'm tearing the linkage apart and looking for a pump or something? Please any other ideas?

 

[Chaos2art]

Since it appears that your pins have removed themselves from the holes, I don’t think you need to worry with getting that set of pins. I would suggest that you try to grab the pin(s) you can see sticking out with a pair of pliers (maybe vice grip type) and see if you can wiggle the pins out of the hole. You just need to be careful about pulling hard and the pliers or pins coming loose. That would slam an elbow or wrist/hand into something that would cause some pain or injury. If that didn’t work, I would use the largest pin that matches the that matches the larger pin ( marked in green in post #18) and insert it into the hole opposite the pins sticking and try to tap them out. (There may be no room on that side to do that though).

That “special“ tool just makes it easier to start driving the roll pins out by centering the pin in the center of the tool pin and having the correct diameter to go into the hole. You are correct that the size is important, you don’t want to have the pin being driven against the surface of the hole, you want it on the shoulder of the pin. Too small a diameter would go into the pin and expand it and get the pin and punch stuck in the hole.

I was able to remove the pins and replace them with a cotter pin. I removed the extra spring. NO CHANGE AT ALL. Does that mean I'm tearing the linkage apart and looking for a pump or something? Please any other ideas?

 

[Russell King]

Well that is disappointing.

I am not sure what to tell you now, but did re-read your first post. And I copied it here for convenience. I modified it somewhat to remove extraneous comments to focus more on the issue. And I have a few questions for clarification.

QUOTE="Chaos2art,
I only use the Belly Mower on my B7800. No other implements are attached.
Hydraulics seemed fine last week. Now control lever is floppy and my mower is on the ground.

I noticed the spring and lock nuts were missing from the feedback bar.
I ordered replacements and slid them on the bar and placed the screws as far as possible on the threaded part of the rod.

Everything else seems connected ok.

Hydraulic fluid is good and the knob between your legs is almost all the way on. (Behave.)

No change in the arm or movement of the hitch.

The feedback arm moves but does not engage the spring.

The interlocker assy is still tight and were it was prior. Pin spring is still attached to lifting arm and feedback arm slides up and down - just never touches the spring or moves the hydraulics.
END QUOTE

First please post another picture of the feedback rod now that you believe it is connected correctly.

You say the knob is almost all the way “on”. Not that it matters but what do you mean? Can you move it to a middle position?

Is the feedback rod moving if you lift the short lift arms from the lowest position to the mid up position? Are you able to move the short lift arms at all or not?

Post a picture of the “interlocker assy” since I have no idea what that is describing. I think you may mean the part with a thumbscrew that is on the feedback rod.

When you use the control lever does the tractor engine change sound or RPMs?

Are you sure that when you move the control lever it is now rotating the pin into the tractor case?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Is the lever still floppy?
If it is and you made sure you connected the lever (040) with the arm (010) via the holes.(green)
Then you more than likely have the arm and the valve misaligned / disconnected. (Blue)

 

[TheOldHokie]

I was able to remove the pins and replace them with a cotter pin. I removed the extra spring. NO CHANGE AT ALL. Does that mean I'm tearing the linkage apart and looking for a pump or something? Please any other ideas?

People here cant see and evaluate what you have done unless you post pictures of the newly installed pins and feedback linkage.

Dan

 

[Chaos2art]

Well that is disappointing.

I am not sure what to tell you now, but did re-read your first post. And I copied it here for convenience. I modified it somewhat to remove extraneous comments to focus more on the issue. And I have a few questions for clarification.

QUOTE="Chaos2art,
I only use the Belly Mower on my B7800. No other implements are attached.
Hydraulics seemed fine last week. Now control lever is floppy and my mower is on the ground.

I noticed the spring and lock nuts were missing from the feedback bar.
I ordered replacements and slid them on the bar and placed the screws as far as possible on the threaded part of the rod.

Everything else seems connected ok.

Hydraulic fluid is good and the knob between your legs is almost all the way on. (Behave.)

No change in the arm or movement of the hitch.

The feedback arm moves but does not engage the spring.

The interlocker assy is still tight and were it was prior. Pin spring is still attached to lifting arm and feedback arm slides up and down - just never touches the spring or moves the hydraulics.
END QUOTE

First please post another picture of the feedback rod now that you believe it is connected correctly.

You say the knob is almost all the way “on”. Not that it matters but what do you mean? Can you move it to a middle position?

Is the feedback rod moving if you lift the short lift arms from the lowest position to the mid up position? Are you able to move the short lift arms at all or not?

Post a picture of the “interlocker assy” since I have no idea what that is describing. I think you may mean the part with a thumbscrew that is on the feedback rod.

When you use the control lever does the tractor engine change sound or RPMs?

Are you sure that when you move the control lever it is now rotating the pin into the tractor case?

Rain again, too bad it didn't come in early July. Hay is $4 a bale more expensive than last year. I have the pins coming ($15 shipping for a $2 part, but I am getting use to it. ) Right now there is a substitute cotter pin in place.
NONE OF THE 3 PT HITCH OR BELLY MOWER MOVES THE CONTROL ARM WHEN MOVED BY HAND. THE CONTROL ARM IS STILL FLOPPY - BUT IT DOES MOVE THE FEADBACK ROD. I will try to get a video
Yes you are correct the "interlocker assy" is the thumb screw on the feedback rod.
No change in RPM.
The pin "area" rotates, but I am thinking it is not connected to something else inside the case. Wolfman sent me a diagram, but can't quite match parts from the diagram to the actual tractor. I'll post more when things dry out. Thanks.

 

[Chaos2art]

Is the lever still floppy?
If it is and you made sure you connected the lever (040) with the arm (010) via the holes.(green)
Then you more than likely have the arm and the valve misaligned / disconnected. (Blue)
View attachment 178053

I am not sure figure 40 is connected to figure 10 (the blue circled area.) Should I be able to see the blue area without have to take the case apart? I'll have to see if I can figure that out when it quits raining. (Tractor is parked in the mosquito playground.) Thanks,

 

[Chaos2art]

People here cant see and evaluate what you have done unless you post pictures of the newly installed pins and feedback linkage.

Dan

I'll try to get a short video and post it. Probably Monday. Thanks.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I'll try to get a short video and post it. Probably Monday. Thanks.

i dont need (or want) a video. A clear picture of the feedback linkage is all we need to determine you now have it corrnected correctly. The original installation (below) was not even close.

Dan

 

[Russell King]

I am not sure figure 40 is connected to figure 10 (the blue circled area.) Should I be able to see the blue area without have to take the case apart? I'll have to see if I can figure that out when it quits raining. (Tractor is parked in the mosquito playground.) Thanks,

The control valve is inside the tractor case. It is item 10 in this diagram. It is part of what @North Idaho Wolfman circled in blue. The front of this is moved by part 10 in the blue circled area. Then that item 10 is connected to the control lever by item 40 that the green line goes to. The pins connect these together.


I would disconnect the cotter pin and see if you can get the control lever off of the pin (as shown in the picture I posted in post #11). Then see if you can rotate the pin going into the tractor with your fingers. If it is floppy, then it has probably become disconnected and you will need to get the top of the case off. Don’t do this unless @North Idaho Wolfman agrees this is a valid test.

 

[Chaos2art]

i dont need (or want) a video. A clear picture of the feedback linkage is all we need to determine you now have it corrnected correctly. The original installation (below) was not even close.

Dan

View attachment 178099

Two pictures showing the feedback bar with one spring and cotter pin temporarily replacing roll pins.

 

[Chaos2art]

The control valve is inside the tractor case. It is item 10 in this diagram. It is part of what @North Idaho Wolfman circled in blue. The front of this is moved by part 10 in the blue circled area. Then that item 10 is connected to the control lever by item 40 that the green line goes to. The pins connect these together.

View attachment 178101
I would disconnect the cotter pin and see if you can get the control lever off of the pin (as shown in the picture I posted in post #11). Then see if you can rotate the pin going into the tractor with your fingers. If it is floppy, then it has probably become disconnected and you will need to get the top of the case off. Don’t do this unless @North Idaho Wolfman agrees this is a valid test.

Thanks, I am heading out of town to volunteer teach for a week. Waiting on Wolfman and working on my RM550 as well.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

With the new cotter / hairpin in, is the lever still floppy?
If it doesn't spring to middle then you have a disconnect inside the case.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Two pictures showing the feedback bar with one spring and cotter pin temporarily replacing roll pins.

Not even close - your feedback linkage is essentially disconnected and that affects the lever on the other side. You need to fix that FIRST.

Dan

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Not even close - your feedback linkage is essentially disconnected and that affects the lever on the other side. You need to fix that FIRST.

Dan

UMMM... It's assembled properly, although maybe not adjusted properly, that will come to play once it works.
And there is no lever on the other side, this is a canceling feedback, not an active feedback.
It only engages when it reaches max lift and max drop of the three point.
Max drop is the stop 100,110,120
Max lift is 130,140