B3200 Pulling Power

[mowmow]

Hey everyone - I'm a new Kubota owner and new to the forum. I already took my first online steps by joining this forum and adding "Kubota" to my Firefox browser's spell checker so it stops suggesting "Bogota", so I'm ready for my first forum post!

I recently purchased by B3200 used and it has about 370 hours on it. I've been though it pretty thoroughly now, with the exception of changing out the hydro fluid and filters, as the dealer said it's not due until 400 hours, even given its age. It looks like clean Super UDT2 though. Anyway, I've been using the tractor for a month or so now, and have a pretty good feel for it. A couple of days ago I tried to pull a 4x6 post out of the ground, which was concreted in. I wrapped a chain around the post and around the ball on the draw bar. The post was down a bit on a slope, so the chain was probably angled at 45 degrees or so, so this was an upward pull. I put the tractor in 4WD, low range, brought the engine up to speed and proceeded forward. Initially, I spun one rear and one front wheel on the lawn, so I locked the rear diff and continued. To my surprise, the tractor didn't move this time. I believe it was a hydraulic "slip" or relief, but I can't be sure. The engine RPMs didn't drop, but my recollection was that I then turned around and used the bucket and was able to remove the post and concrete vertically.

Having owned a D**re 855 for nearly 20 years, I feel like that tractor would have spun all four tires into the ground, or stalled the engine in trying to perform that pull. Does this seem like normal behavior for the B3200? I know the mechanics of the pull were not ideal, but I want to make sure the slip is OK. Medium and Low range did the same thing, and I didn't leav it slipping for more than a couple of tenths of a second. I have no other issues with this tractor as far as questionable performance. I have mowed very heavy lawns with the 60" mid-mount to the point of engine RPM drop, and the tractor easily (accidentally) will lift it's front (R4) tires off the ground with the LA504 loader bucket.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

 

[johnjk]

Does your B3200 have a FEL? I did bucket hooks on mine and with a chain, pull straight up. Ballast is your friend as well loaded tires, front weights and FEL are great ways to add more punch to the pull. Watch with pulling via the drawbar especially if that force is more down than straight. I found that mine didn’t stall but either lifted the front end off the ground or caused the rear to hop. Adjust what you do to your desired pucker level

 

[SDT]

Hey everyone - I'm a new Kubota owner and new to the forum. I already took my first online steps by joining this forum and adding "Kubota" to my Firefox browser's spell checker so it stops suggesting "Bogota", so I'm ready for my first forum post!

I recently purchased by B3200 used and it has about 370 hours on it. I've been though it pretty thoroughly now, with the exception of changing out the hydro fluid and filters, as the dealer said it's not due until 400 hours, even given its age. It looks like clean Super UDT2 though. Anyway, I've been using the tractor for a month or so now, and have a pretty good feel for it. A couple of days ago I tried to pull a 4x6 post out of the ground, which was concreted in. I wrapped a chain around the post and around the ball on the draw bar. The post was down a bit on a slope, so the chain was probably angled at 45 degrees or so, so this was an upward pull. I put the tractor in 4WD, low range, brought the engine up to speed and proceeded forward. Initially, I spun one rear and one front wheel on the lawn, so I locked the rear diff and continued. To my surprise, the tractor didn't move this time. I believe it was a hydraulic "slip" or relief, but I can't be sure. The engine RPMs didn't drop, but my recollection was that I then turned around and used the bucket and was able to remove the post and concrete vertically.

Having owned a D**re 855 for nearly 20 years, I feel like that tractor would have spun all four tires into the ground, or stalled the engine in trying to perform that pull. Does this seem like normal behavior for the B3200? I know the mechanics of the pull were not ideal, but I want to make sure the slip is OK. Medium and Low range did the same thing, and I didn't leav it slipping for more than a couple of tenths of a second. I have no other issues with this tractor as far as questionable performance. I have mowed very heavy lawns with the 60" mid-mount to the point of engine RPM drop, and the tractor easily (accidentally) will lift it's front (R4) tires off the ground with the LA504 loader bucket.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Always use low range when attempting to perform such (abusive) tasks.

In low range both rear tires should have slipped with differential locked and one or both front tire(s) should have slipped.

 

[D2Cat]

Welcome to the forum. Where you located.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

What where the RPM's?
Did the transmission make any noise?

Trying to pull a cemented imbedded post out of the ground horizontally is not easy task, period.

 

[Russell King]

I have no idea about your pulling problem but want to warn you of potential consequences when engaging the differential lock. If you try to engage the differential lock when you are spinning one rear wheel you have a potential to break a pin or locking mechanism in the differential case of the tractor. So you should stop the tractor from spinning wheels, press on the lock mechanism and then slowly rotate the wheel until you know that the differential is locked. Also don’t try to turn when the differential is locked. Once you are done you can stop tractor, release the lock mechanism and drive a few feet in reverse to get it to pop loose if it doesn’t unlock immediately.

And you probably already know all this, I am just stating it for anyone that reads this thread and doesn’t know.

 

[mowmow]

Wow, so many responses! I'll try to reply to each here:

1) By FEL you mean front end loader, yes, that's how I eventually pulled it. My rear tires are fluid-filled BTW
2) Always use Low range for this. Yes - I only tried Medium to briefly see if there was any difference in behavior.
3) Both rears should have slipped. That's what I was expecting, but what it felt like was a hydrostatic pressure relief.
4) I am in NW Ohio
5) Differential Lock use. Yep - that's the way I try to use it. I have noticed that the rubber floor mat interferes with fully engaging the lock lever. I need to have a look in there to make sure nothing's out of place.
6) Transmission noise? Nothing unusual - if it was a hydro pressure relief, it was very, almost too, graceful.
7) Pulling the post is a big job. I should add that the post was very near water level in a pond, and water immediately started seeping into the hole through the clay-like bank. So my thought was to take it slow and steady if it didn't come right away, but with the unknown slippage, I quickly shifted away from using the draw bar.

Maybe with the math on the angle, pull force and friction, it was simply a correct hydraulic pressure relief and the engine just didn't sound like it. That is one difference that I definitely noticed in my Kubotas vs my Yanmar engines: The Kubotas seem to have a much sharper governor, hardly dropping in RPM until they are overloaded, where the Yanmars progressively drop in RPM with load. So I may be misinterpreting the load conditions on this B3200.

 

[Shawn T. W]

Doesn't sound like anything wrong with it to me, just too big of a job asked for the situation ...

While the FEL did the job, the 3pt arms tend to be stronger, while have less height movement ...

 

[6869704x4]

The strongest force is typically going to be the breakout, or curl, of the bucket or attachment.

 

[mowmow]

Well thanks guys! I will take this as a simple learning experience on my newish Kubota and be comforted in the idea that nothing was likely wrong with the tractor here.

 

[D2Cat]

Be sure to follow Russell's advise on differential lock usage. You shear that locking pin and it's fun to get to! Simply have no wheels spinning when locking or unlocking.

 

[Grandad4]

The amount of torque your hydro transmission can put to the ground is controlled by that foot pedal. Thing is, it works just backwards to how the similar appearing gas pedal functions in our cars and trucks. So maximum pulling power is achieved when the HST pedal is lightly applied, not when you stomp on it.

Just checking if that has/has not been factored into what happened with that post.

 

[mowmow]

Be sure to follow Russell's advise on differential lock usage. You shear that locking pin and it's fun to get to! Simply have no wheels spinning when locking or unlocking.

What I see here is that you should avoid shocking the locking mechanism, which makes sense. Regarding not turning while locked, I'm not sure what the danger would be here on dirt - I hope it's designed heavy enough for that, not that it's a good idea unless somehow necessary in a pinch.

The amount of torque your hydro transmission can put to the ground is controlled by that foot pedal. Thing is, it works just backwards to how the similar appearing gas pedal functions in our cars and trucks. So maximum pulling power is achieved when the HST pedal is lightly applied, not when you stomp on it.

Are you attributing this to an initial hydro relief (static) being greater than an ongoing (dynamic) one?

 

[Sawdust&Shavings]

What I see here is that you should avoid shocking the locking mechanism, which makes sense. Regarding not turning while locked, I'm not sure what the danger would be here on dirt - I hope it's designed heavy enough for that, not that it's a good idea unless somehow necessary in a pinch.



Are you attributing this to an initial hydro relief (static) being greater than an ongoing (dynamic) one?

My owners manuals confirms what the two smart gentleman already provided you,

 

[Russell King]

What I see here is that you should avoid shocking the locking mechanism, which makes sense. Regarding not turning while locked, I'm not sure what the danger would be here on dirt - I hope it's designed heavy enough for that, not that it's a good idea unless somehow necessary in a pinch.

I am not 100% sure that on dirt that turning (with the lock on) would damage the lock or not. The tractor simply does NOT turn well at all when the lock is on. So why try to turn and possibly damage the lock if it isn’t going to turn anyway? That is my logic.

I do know that if you are getting the front end to move sideways (when the differential lock is on) that one wheel has to turn more than the other. That puts a lot of stress on the differential lock and will break it. So depending on how hard the dirt is it could break the system that is difficult to repair. Now if you get stuck in a bog then damage is unlikely but you also probably can’t turn either!

 

[mowmow]

My owners manuals confirms what the two smart gentleman already provided you,

Fair enough. I just don't like the wording of these sometimes. Assuming the diff lock pedal pushes a spring that tries to engage the diff lock itself, then in all likelihood, "engaging the diff lock when one wheel is spinning and the other is completely stopped" is often unavoidable, unless you are expected to repeatedly slip one wheel, press the lever, and feel for the change in spring resistance - but it doesn't say to do that.

I am not 100% sure that on dirt that turning (with the lock on) would damage the lock or not. The tractor simply does NOT turn well at all when the lock is on. So why try to turn and possibly damage the lock if it isn’t going to turn anyway? That is my logic.

I do know that if you are getting the front end to move sideways (when the differential lock is on) that one wheel has to turn more than the other. That puts a lot of stress on the differential lock and will break it.

Totally agree with you, and I wouldn't think of doing these things, but are people actually breaking the diff locks on these?

 

[Russell King]

To be clear there are at least two different types of differtial locks that I have seen used on Kubotas. One style is a pin that gets inserted into one of a series of holes. The other is a dog clutch style that pushes the dogs together. In either case I believe it is the force from your foot on the pedal that forces them into place and a spring that forces them apart when you release the pedal.

The probability that they are aligned when the wheels are stationary is about 0%. So you will have to let the spinning wheel rotate SLOWLY while holding the pedal down. You can usually feel when the lock mechanism moves into place and the wheel should stop spinning (or both will start to spin). Then you can increase the engine speed and power after it is locked. Kubota does not want you to try to engage the differential lock while one wheel is spinning at fast speed, that will break the lock and there are many reports of that happening.

I recall a few reports of the lock being broken by turning the tractor, but it is much less common (as far as I know). Most times the operator doesn’t realize the lock is still engaged after releasing the pedal and tries to turn and hears a popping sound, then the differential lock is inoperative. The locks can get jammed up due to the high load during operation. That is why backing up or moving forwards a little bit after you release the pedal is a good idea. Reverse if you were using the pedal moving forward and then if you were using the pedal in reverse, try moving forward a little bit to remove any pressure on that system.