B-8200 total loss of hydraulic pressure?

[ChuckHasenkamp]

I have an old B-8200 Std Trns 4x4 with a front loader. Last use 2 years ago, everything worked fine. Today, it started and runs fine. But, the hydraulics are totally inoperable. Neither the 3 pt lift or the loader responds to controls. Nothing moves even a smidgen. The dipstick to check the transmission fluid shows proper fill level and the fluid is clean. There is little to no information related to the hydraulics in the owner manual. I know about the mesh filter and that was cleaned a few years back. The tractor has very little use since, so I cannot imagine that would be clogged at this point. I am suspecting the actual pump mechanism? I cannot seem to find anything that looks like a serviceable pump.

I am not a mechanic, but can change parts occasionally, depending? Is there anyone who knows about the location of the pump responsible for the loss of pressure?

 

[TheOldHokie]

I have an old B-8200 Std Trns 4x4 with a front loader. Last use 2 years ago, everything worked fine. Today, it started and runs fine. But, the hydraulics are totally inoperable. Neither the 3 pt lift or the loader responds to controls. Nothing moves even a smidgen. The dipstick to check the transmission fluid shows proper fill level and the fluid is clean. There is little to no information related to the hydraulics in the owner manual. I know about the mesh filter and that was cleaned a few years back. The tractor has very little use since, so I cannot imagine that would be clogged at this point. I am suspecting the actual pump mechanism? I cannot seem to find anything that looks like a serviceable pump.

I am not a mechanic, but can change parts occasionally, depending? Is there anyone who knows about the location of the pump responsible for the loss of pressure?

You need to check for flow coming to the loader.

Dan

 

[Jim L.]

Dan, I believe that you had mentioned in a previous thread for that model to check the position of the directional valve.

Two years without use it's possible that someone moved that valve.

 

[Russell King]

You need to check for flow coming to the loader.

Dan

To do this, test is accomplished by removing the hose going to the Power In port on the FEL Valve and putting it in a clean bucket (or insert it in the transmission fill port if you can see it). Just be sure the hose end stays where you put it.

Start the tractor and fluid should come out of the hose. Flow should be similar to a garden water hose so will fill a bucket quickly and is also emptying the transmission if using the bucket method.

You don’t need to time it just see if the flow exists for now. Don’t run tractor for to long or you can make a mess or damage the pump if it ran dry of fluid.

 

[ChuckHasenkamp]

Thanks Dan and Russell. That sounds like a good way to test. My original question was actually "where on the tractor was the pump located?". I finally found it, for anyone with a similar question. The right side engine cover must be removed. The pump is located on the right hand side of the engine, down low, towards the rear, right behind the fuel filter, which looks as if it has to be removed along with its mounting bracket to access the pump mounting bolts. Looks like a real tight space to work, but must be doable. We'll see. Thanks again for your response.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks Dan and Russell. That sounds like a good way to test. My original question was actually "where on the tractor was the pump located?". I finally found it, for anyone with a similar question. The right side engine cover must be removed. The pump is located on the right hand side of the engine, down low, towards the rear, right behind the fuel filter, which looks as if it has to be removed along with its mounting bracket to access the pump mounting bolts. Looks like a real tight space to work, but must be doable. We'll see. Thanks again for your response.

Do not mess with the pump until you run some tests. Thats why I did not answer that question.

Dan

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Do not mess with the pump until you run some tests. Thats why I did not answer that question.

Dan

Spoil sport!

 

[ChuckHasenkamp]

I certainly don't intend to "mess" with the pump if not absolutely necessary. Not sure I'm even capable. At 81 most parts of my body are beyond their "use by" date. I will probably have to hire some help if it comes to that. Plus the $850 price tag, couple hrs trip to Caldwell. Sheesh !!!

I can do some stuff. So, I cleaned the oil strainer today. It was a real slimy mess to say the least. But, with a bucket of kerosene, compressed air and a tooth brush it looks pretty good now, but a flash light will not shine through it. I'm wondering, Can those be clogged beyond cleaning/repair?

Anyway I re-installed that, refilled the transmission case, and now the three point operates as it should, and the loader operates somewhat. It has full range of movements, but is extremely slow, and much weaker than normal. It can barely lift the front wheels of the ground.

So back to your test recommendation. Please forgive my ignorance, it took me a while to even figure out what you meant, but could you verify that "FEL" valve refers to Front Loader? That being the case, which of the seven hoses would be the "Input"?

Three of them appear to be coming from the rear end of the machine and have quick disconect couplings a few feet below the valve body. One of those connects on the left, (inside) end of the loader control valve housing by itself. The other two are connected along with all the rest on the top. I'm thinking maybe that's the feeder?

If so, would that top threaded conection be the disconect point? Or would I use the quick disconect coupling further down on the hose?

Thanks in advance for your atention. Really apreciated! Chuck

 

[TheOldHokie]

I certainly don't intend to "mess" with the pump if not absolutely necessary. Not sure I'm even capable. At 81 most parts of my body are beyond their "use by" date. I will probably have to hire some help if it comes to that. Plus the $850 price tag, couple hrs trip to Caldwell. Sheesh !!!

I can do some stuff. So, I cleaned the oil strainer today. It was a real slimy mess to say the least. But, with a bucket of kerosene, compressed air and a tooth brush it looks pretty good now, but a flash light will not shine through it. I'm wondering, Can those be clogged beyond cleaning/repair?

Anyway I re-installed that, refilled the transmission case, and now the three point operates as it should, and the loader operates somewhat. It has full range of movements, but is extremely slow, and much weaker than normal. It can barely lift the front wheels of the ground.

So back to your test recommendation. Please forgive my ignorance, it took me a while to even figure out what you meant, but could you verify that "FEL" valve refers to Front Loader? That being the case, which of the seven hoses would be the "Input"?

Three of them appear to be coming from the rear end of the machine and have quick disconect couplings a few feet below the valve body. One of those connects on the left, (inside) end of the loader control valve housing by itself. The other two are connected along with all the rest on the top. I'm thinking maybe that's the feeder?

If so, would that top threaded conection be the disconect point? Or would I use the quick disconect coupling further down on the hose?

Thanks in advance for your atention. Really apreciated! Chuck

Thats a good start - the screen was clearly part of the problem. Trust me - I am very much in tune with the 81 year old issue !!

The next step is to verify the directional control valve on the hydraulic outlet for the loader is in the correct position. The outlet block is located just below the hydraulic pump and the three hoses should be connected to it. Here is a drawing from the Operator's Manual. The valve is a quarter turn selector and should be turned fully clockwise until it contacts the stop. Please check and verify that before we continue.

Dan

 

[ChuckHasenkamp]

Yes, already identified that and it is in the correct position. Your picture is exactly what mine looks like. The picture in the manual that came with this tractor has a completely different form factor. In that figure the valve stem is located on the top right end of the unit parallel to the frame as opposed to perpendicular like this one. Anyhow it turns freely and is in the extreme clockwise position.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Yes, already identified that and it is in the correct position. Your picture is exactly what mine looks like. The picture in the manual that came with this tractor has a completely different form factor. In that figure the valve stem is located on the top right end of the unit parallel to the frame as opposed to perpendicular like this one. Anyhow it turns freely and is in the extreme clockwise position.

Good. I have seen the other variant of the outlet block before and was similarly confused.

The question now seems to be why is the 3pt seemingly OK but the loader is slow and weak. Are you sure the 3pt will lift its rated capacity?

Dan

 

[ChuckHasenkamp]

No. I had to remove the tiller that was attached, in order to access the trans drain plug. If I can get my neighbor to help me today I will try and get it back on there to do that test and report back.

 

[TheOldHokie]

No. I had to remove the tiller that was attached, in order to access the trans drain plug. If I can get my neighbor to help me today I will try and get it back on there to do that test and report back.

Excellent. That will be helpful in deciding where to go next.

Dan

 

[ChuckHasenkamp]

By the way, I've read lots of conflicting opinions on fluids. I have been using TSC Premium Tractor Trans/Hydraulic fluid. It is labeled as compatible with Kubota equipment. The last time I cleaned the screen was many years ago, like 14 or maybe more. I use the tractor very seldom. It sits for months/years betwen use. I wanted to sell it a long time ago, but my wife loves it. So....!

Could that be the source of my current problem? What are your thoughts?

 

[TheOldHokie]

By the way, I've read lots of conflicting opinions on fluids. I have been using TSC Premium Tractor Trans/Hydraulic fluid. It is labeled as compatible with Kubota equipment. The last time I cleaned the screen was many years ago, like 14 or maybe more. I use the tractor very seldom. It sits for months/years betwen use. I wanted to sell it a long time ago, but my wife loves it. So....!

Could that be the source of my current problem? What are your thoughts?

No - the problem there is lack of scheduled maintainance.

Your Operator's Manual lists UDT and a number of third party alternatives. The TSC Premium UTF may not be the finest UTF on the market but it is perfectly fine in your tractor.

Dan

 

[ChuckHasenkamp]

No - the problem there is lack of scheduled maintainance.

Your Operator's Manual lists UDT and a number of third party alternatives. The TSC Premium UTF may not be the finest UTF on the market but it is perfectly fine in your tractor.

Dan

I plead guilty to al that. Never my strong suit. Life just happens.

Anyhow, we put a 6" landscape rake (250 lbs) on the 3 Pt hitch and it raises and lowers pretty much normally based on past experience. The loader is still sluggish. We adjusted the directional valve a bit and the loader seems to operate best if the valve is positioned just a bit shy of full clockwise. The stop pin at the full counter clockwise position is bent down so that it lets the valve turn a bit past where that would normally stop. But I would not think that should affect anything in the clockwise setting.

I don't really want to mess with disconnecting hoses. And, since things are operating somewhat there wil obviously be some sort of observable flow. I don't see where eyeballing some random amount of flow would accomplish much.

Is there a port somewhere to tap into the system to measure expected pump output performance with a pressure gauge?

 

[TheOldHokie]

The directional valve is a drilled cross hole so misalignment can make a noticeable difference. Did you make a typo with "counter-clockwise" ?

I would suggest measuring pressure at the hydraulic outlet block. Put a quick connect tip on the gauge, disconnect the coupler on the pump outlet hose, and plug the gauge into the hose. Start tractor and record pressures at max and idle RPM. Dont run the tractor more than a minute ir so with that setup because you are deadheading the circuit.

Make sure you get the correct size and type coupler. It may not be a agricultural series.

Dan

 

[ChuckHasenkamp]

What if I got two connectors and mounted them onto each end of a TEE inline with the pressure source hose and placed a gauge there? That would reveal fluctuating values as the loader was operated without interfering with flow. Do you know the pressure values to look for?

 

[TheOldHokie]

You



What if I got two connectors and mounted them onto each end of a TEE inline with the pressure source hose and placed a gauge there? That would re it should be veal fluctuating values as the loader was operated without interfering with flow. Do you know the pressure values to look for?

You could but that's not what you want to know. You want to know the maximum pressure the tractor is producing and you want to eliminate as much as you can from the circuit when measuring that pressure. With the gauge on the end of the hose you are measuring tractor relief pressure and the drawing I posted says it should be 1420 PSI.

Once we know tractor supply pressure is correct we will measure at the loader outlet side to see if its the same. The idea is to work along the circuit in an orderly fashion looking for any loss at each step.

Dan