30 yr old FEL, cyls leaking, which route to take..?

[GeoHorn]

I’ve got a (approx 1996) M4700DT. It’s got a LA-1002-5R1 loader….S/N A0410.

It’s a low-time unit, only 700 hrs on it, despite the 30 yrs.

The boom cyls started dripping yesterday….both of them where the ram exits the cyl.

I go to the Messicks site and start looking at Seal Kits… and I think (?)** i’ve figured out the PNs for the kits req’d….. I’m thinking to kill all the birds at once and do both boom cyls….as well as the bucket cyls …since they’re all the same age.

The seal-kits are about $160 ea for the boom cyls, …and $60 ea for the bucket cyls.

I’ve got a local guy I’ve never used who says he’ll come to my place and do them….and wanted to know the PNs for the kits. I sent him that info. I’m waiting for his response.

This AM I called the local Kubota dealer, who says they’l charge $350 plus parts for each PAIR of cyls. That’s if I bring the cyls in to them… plus two more hours labor if I bring the tractor to them and they have to remove them. They told me to plan on 2 days AFTER they get the parts (if they don’t already have them.)

Note: I never want to order parts myself and then hand them to a repair shop/guy….because that means the wrong parts if MY fault.…My delay….My extra expense. For that reason I prefer the repair facility/guy to acquire the parts.

Here’s my questions:
1-Although I like the idea of supporting an individual businessman, …. The number of different seal kits (according to Messicks) creates the possibility of ordering/receiving the wrong kit… which would deeply complicate things if I use a local hydraulics-guy. Plus, it surprises me the number of seals within these cyls. If we open them up…. I want ALL the new seals/parts installed…. not just a few. The local guy may not be as-familiar with thee particular cylinders…and that could become an issue out here on the property with a disassembled tractor.

2-It seems to me that the Kubota Dealer would be more familiar with this product, has a direct-line to parts, and I would be better positioned to hold responsible for any results. I’m probably looking at $1000 labor if I take the tractor in…. and let them do all 4 cyls. (plus about $500 parts)


How would the group advise me?

Thanks.

**
====== IF I got this correct (?)”
The PNs are:
Boom Seal Kit: 75565-63600 @ $112 ea.
Bucket Seal Kit: 75565-64600 @ $60 ea

 

[D2Cat]

I guess I'm fortunate because I have a nearby hydraulic repair shop that does excellent work. I've taken complete cylinders to them, I've taken just the ram with all components on it, I've told them the infor for a cylinder and had them order components... and always get good results.

They are a high quality shop and can fix any component of a cylinder. They do all the repair for World's of Fun, many big construction companies, and trash haulers.

I had them get the seals for the lift cylinder on a Westendorf loader. Only did the one that was leaking because I needed the tractor and figured I'd do the other side later. Never have done the other side and it's functioning fine.

Another example, I needed seals for the bucket on a Bobcat skid steer. Went to bobcat and they could order the parts, take a few day to get them, cost was around $50. went over to Mid America Hydraulics and he order a seal kit------$12(and some change). I told him to order two!

Whether you get one side fixed or both, it's a matter of opinion. If it's something that earns money and you need it to keep working, get it repaired before it quits, if not you have an option. If local hyd repair shop can't do you any good, you have no option there either.

I support my Kubota dealer 100%, but I'm not married to them! For example, I do not buy antifreeze or engine oil there.

 

[chim]

We had two good hydraulic shops that could do anything related to hydraulics. Drop off broken stuff and go pick up repaired stuff. I don't recall needing to give them much information. I even had one build a hydrostatic drive cable winding machine. Told them the force required and desired RPM's. It had its own pump and plugged into the wall in our cable shop.

 

[hedgerow]

I have a lot of hydraulic cylinder around this farm. I fix them as needed. When they start dripping oil they come off and go to the hydraulic shop to be repaired. I am lucky to have one of the biggest hydraulic repair shops in our state less than twenty miles from me. I stopped messing with cylinders probably twenty years ago. These folks are good. I have never had a cylinder I had to take back because of a problem. They have built pistons, barrels and rods for me for cylinders that the company is no longer in business.

 

[jyoutz]

I want to echo the local hydraulic shop recommendations. Just take the cylinders to a shop and they will source the correct size seals and rebuild the cylinders. They won’t source them from a Kubota dealer; they will just measure them and use their own sources.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Me three. I rebuilt the first couple, no big deal, using Kubota kits. But the kits got so high it was better to take them to a shop 20 miles away. So far, he's had the parts in stock and charges $100 per cylinder for parts and labor. I usually loosen the head before I take them off. If I call ahead, he'll do it while I kill an hour or so at the NH/Kioti dealer across the street.

 

[TheOldHokie]

If I call ahead, he'll do it while I kill an hour or so at the NH/Kioti dealer across the street.

Say it ain't so

Me four

Dan

 

[GeoHorn]

Well, … I guess I’m setting a bad-example…for a guy asking advice…and then not even waiting to read it when it was offered…

I’m still awaiting the local hyd-guy’s response. (I like the idea of supporting the little-guy….but here’s what developed while awaiting his response):


Meanwhile , “Cody” at my local Kubota dealer called me back this afternoon and told me he was “back at the shop” and that they already have kits for one pair of my cylinders…and can order the kits for the other pair ”if I wanted to do them since they’re of similar age”….. and can have the other parts by Sat or Mon at the latest. He said he’d like to have a couple days to do it…. So I agreed to drop the tractor off on Monday and plan to pick it up on Wed.

Just guessing/estimating…but the dealer will likely cost me 1/3rd more than the local guy on labor …and the kits will be the same price…. So that convinced me to pay the extra to keep it simple, and have the Dealer that I can hold-responsible if any issues arise in the near future with the job.

I’ll post back what the experience is like later next week.

Thanks for the responses.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Say it ain't so

Me four

Dan

Not shopping, it's for re-affirmation that I own a superior machine .

If Kioti would develop a support network, they could make a move. But that would increase costs and be reflected in their price. There are things about my neighbor's JD utility tractor I like too, but it ain't Katy.

 

[GeoHorn]

Not shopping, it's for re-affirmation that I own a superior machine .

If Kioti would develop a support network, they could make a move. But that would increase costs and be reflected in their price. There are things about my neighbor's JD utility tractor I like too, but it ain't Katy.

When I wanted to upgrade my lift-links to telescoping links I remembered that on one of my routes there’s a Kioti dealer….so I stopped-by around sunset (they were closed for the day) to look at one that was sitting outside facing the highway…..mostly to measure the lower links…and noticed they would be a good fit for my ’96-era M4700.
So next-day I called them…asked about that model Kioti and if the lower links could be ordered…..and the manager said, “Yeah…I saw you out in the “lot” looking at the one we haver out there…. (notice he didn’t come out to try to sell me anything despite he being present)
Then he transferred me to his “service dept guy”….. who identified which lower links I wanted and said he’d check to see how much and when he could get them for me.
I’ve never heard back. And as far as I can tell…. they don’t do much business.

 

[hedgerow]

 

[JohnDB]

... Just guessing/estimating…but the dealer will likely cost me 1/3rd more than the local guy on labor …and the kits will be the same price…. So that convinced me to pay the extra to keep it simple, and have the Dealer that I can hold-responsible if any issues arise in the near future with the job. ...

Looks like your on the way to getting them fixed

I'm estimating that a hydraulic shop would charge less than 50% of the price of the Kubota seals of comparable or better quality and you'd still have only one party to hold responsible. They would probably have the right seals on the shelf.

I wouldn't be surprised if your Kubota dealer supplied the seals and contracted the work out to a local hydraulic shop.

 

[GeoHorn]

Looks like your on the way to getting them fixed

I'm estimating that a hydraulic shop would charge less than 50% of the price of the Kubota seals of comparable or better quality and you'd still have only one party to hold responsible. They would probably have the right seals on the shelf.

I wouldn't be surprised if your Kubota dealer supplied the seals and contracted the work out to a local hydraulic shop.

I believe it’s correct in that the cylinders Leak might be stopped using generic O-rings.
I think that’s what a lot of independent guys likely do, and maybe that’s OK.

I’m being a bit picky perhaps. If I’m going to go to this trouble and expense I don’t want just the leak stopped.
It looks to me that these particular cyls have a few specially-shaped / lipped seals ….and while generics may work…. For the time and money spent, my comfort will be satisfied only if the oem parts are used.

Either scheme will probably out-live me tho’. The grandkids can re-do it with ordinary O-rings in 2050 when these parts are no longer obtainable.

 

[Gus1957]

I have a lot of hydraulic cylinder around this farm. I fix them as needed. When they start dripping oil they come off and go to the hydraulic shop to be repaired. I am lucky to have one of the biggest hydraulic repair shops in our state less than twenty miles from me. I stopped messing with cylinders probably twenty years ago. These folks are good. I have never had a cylinder I had to take back because of a problem. They have built pistons, barrels and rods for me for cylinders that the company is no longer in business.

Hello,

What is the name of the shop and state?

TY

 

[GreensvilleJay]

A possible option. price out new, aftermarket cylinders. Easy to do, measure yours for bore ,stroke, configuration. Years ago I had TWO custom cylinders made and all new hoses CHEAPER than what the local hydraulic shop wanted to repair(seals) one OEM cylinder.

 

[John T]

I want to echo the local hydraulic shop recommendations. Just take the cylinders to a shop and they will source the correct size seals and rebuild the cylinders. They won’t source them from a Kubota dealer; they will just measure them and use their own sources.

I agree with all the smart guys.
Bring it to a HYD. shop ..... (as opposed to "I know a guy" )

drop em off.... Call me when they are done.

EZ-PZ

 

[GeoHorn]

I just texted the local guy to let him know my plan so not to waste his time…. and … …Now he does respond/text back”
“Yes, (if) they have parts in stock for me I would charge labor 135 ea if you removed them.”

So, ….(ignoring the cyl-removal/ taking the tractor in) …. I would have saved $60,… and perhaps the tax.

Remaining to be seen and posted: Quality of work.

PS: I don’t think he’s just a “local guy”…. he is known locally as “Hill Country Hydraulics” and listed in the business directory.
I’m not intimidated about removing the cyls and taking them in. I just don’t want to.

@ GreenvilleJay : I know what you mean. When my mid-80s Ferguson Compactor steering cylinder died , I shopped online and found “Magister” brand cylinder to replace it. $200. easy/peasy
But it was black.

 

[John T]

So, ….(ignoring the cyl-removal/ taking the tractor in) …. I would have saved $60,… and perhaps the tax.

Remaining to be seen and posted: Quality of work.

Exactly.

If the shop does them and they leak.... you bring them back and say Fix em.

if Joe Blow does them, you hold yer hand on your backside.

Buy once, Cry once.

 

[GeoHorn]

Exactly.

If the shop does them and they leak.... you bring them back and say Fix em.

if Joe Blow does them, you hold yer hand on your backside.

Buy once, Cry once.

Thx for that thought.… leads me to recognize that WhoEver does the work… if I “take them in”….then I don’t Really Know if they’re not leaking still…… until I install them and operate the loader a few times.
If they leak again…. what a PITA.

Taking the tractor in….. solves that issue. Remove/Drive ‘em in / Pick ‘em up and Drive home….Insall….. leak test…. Remove/Instaall & take it in again…. doesn’t occur.

(That is probably a small-risk…but nevertheless…and as for cost….I’m fortunate enough to be retired and, don’t like spending, but can afford to let someone Else do it. If this were a “money-thing”…. I’d do the entire replace-the-O-rings-myself. It’s really not rocket-science or you-know-who couldn’t do it..

 

[jyoutz]

Thx for that thought.… leads me to recognize that WhoEver does the work… if I “take them in”….then I don’t Really Know if they’re not leaking still…… until I install them and operate the loader a few times.
If they leak again…. what a PITA.

Taking the tractor in….. solves that issue. Remove/Drive ‘em in / Pick ‘em up and Drive home….Insall….. leak test…. Remove/Instaall & take it in again…. doesn’t occur.

(That is probably a small-risk…but nevertheless…and as for cost….I’m fortunate enough to be retired and, don’t like spending, but can afford to let someone Else do it. If this were a “money-thing”…. I’d do the entire replace-the-O-rings-myself. It’s really not rocket-science or you-know-who couldn’t do it..

Removing the cylinders is such a quick job. Easier than loading and trailering the tractor.