BX25 trailer size

[tomkellyiii]

There appears to be some controversy about what size trailer is required to carry a BX25 with loader and backhoe. This photo shows a standard U-Haul 6ft X 12ft trailer. At first I had it in with the backhoe in the rear. I had a lot of sway. Backhoe to the front towed perfect.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Yeah as you see it fits and it worked. But if it was me I'd put it on a 16 foot deck and get the loader flat on the trailer bed and the boom down too. I don't like leaving loaders and booms up in the air when riding around. To much stress and strain on the hydraulics.

If a line blows and the loader comes crashing down it wont be pretty on that Uhaul trailer.

 

[hodge]

Yeah as you see it fits and it worked. But if it was me I'd put it on a 16 foot deck and get the loader flat on the trailer bed and the boom down too. I don't like leaving loaders and booms up in the air when riding around. To much stress and strain on the hydraulics.

If a line blows and the loader comes crashing down it wont be pretty on that Uhaul trailer.

I would want the loader and backhoe down, too. It lowers the center of gravity.
A longer trailer also gives you the ability to get the balance in front of the axle, so that it doesn't sway. It also allows you to get the balance without having to overload the tongue- you can keep most of the weight on the trailer axles, but far enough forward to keep the center of gravity in front of the axle.
A bigger trailer also gives you more room to chain the tractor down- that U-Haul trailer doesn't.

 

[85Hokie]

Tom,

My BX-25 D was delivered from the dealer via a private hauler, a 12' single axle trailer!!!!
I was stunned ! I have pulled mine a 14' double axle trailer without any sway or problems via a 2002 trailerblazer, inline 6.

Now I ran mine up on the trailer bucket first, bucket hangs over front tougue side - I have tool box and the teeth do not come down onto the box, I also swing the backhoe to one side or the other, as others have said, get the weight forward with in reason or it will sway like the wind! Approx weight is getting close to 3000 lbs. 1600 for tractor, 400+ bucket, 700+ hoe, 60 mmm is about 250, 6 gallons of diesel.....filled tires....

 

[Kubota_Man]

Here is how I roll. it is a Big Tex LP70 brakes on both axles the box size is 5' X 10'. I can tow this setup all day long. I have made a couple 300 mile trips with no sway or isssue. On the tractor I have lockouts for the loader so there is no issue with the hydro system. The BH is pinned on both holes and I strap the bucket to the trailer. The tractor is strapped down at the 4 corners

Again this how I do it. I have stopped at a couple of DOT scales and the experts there dodn't have an issue with the way I had it set up

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Best I can say is go with what works for you and what you feel comfortable with. But think things through for what could happen. Again for me I'd want a trailer big enough to have everything contained inside the deck of the trailer.

Around my parts Kubota Man's set up would get you in trouble for not having the boom outside the trailer marked with a red flag and not having the boom tied down to the trailer.

I would not want someone plowing into the ass end of the trailer and busting the boom all to crap because its hanging on the outside of the deck. Yeah a rear end hit is no fun but the tractor is less likely to get destroyed if it was inside the trailer deck. Looking at it from a fender bender point of view...

 

[hodge]

Best I can say is go with what works for you and what you feel comfortable with. But think things through for what could happen. Again for me I'd want a trailer big enough to have everything contained inside the deck of the trailer.

Around my parts Kubota Man's set up would get you in trouble for not having the boom outside the trailer marked with a red flag and not having the boom tied down to the trailer.

I would not want someone plowing into the ass end of the trailer and busting the boom all to crap because its hanging on the outside of the deck. Yeah a rear end hit is no fun but the tractor is less likely to get destroyed if it was inside the trailer deck. Looking at it from a fender bender point of view...

You also have to think about what might happen in an accident. Will the tractor stay on the trailer? Will protruding implements cause more damage or injury/death, and not to belittle that, but what about liability?
A couple of years ago, a local contractor was hauling a skidsteer on a tilt deck trailer. He forgot to lock the coupler on the ball, and was going down the road doing 45 or 50. The hitch came off, the safety chains broke, and the trailer veered off the road and went across two parking lots, hitting cars and finally coming to rest in the corner of a building. The skidsteer stayed on the trailer. I would imagine the damage would have been greater, if they had seperated. No one was injured, fortunately.
Towing is a HUGE responsibility. What works may work for a good while, but the law of statistics says that the more you tow, the more chance you have of being in an accident. Make sure that you have done a more than sufficient job of securing your tractor.
Another contractor I know hauls a Case 1845 Skidsteer on a homemade, single axle trailer, flat deck 4x8, no brakes, towing it with an extremely used 1/2 ton, 2WD chevy truck. He is an accident waiting to happen, but it hasn't happened, yet. He also hasn't gotten into trouble, but that doesn't mean that what he does is legal, or smart.

 

[olthumpa]

From: http://www.forconstructionpros.com/article/10116965/secure-your-load
[As an owner, manager or driver, you are responsible for the load on your trailer. It's as simple as that.
"It's your responsibility to tie down your load properly, securely and legally," says Jim Ladner, national sales manager, Landoll Trailers. "When you transport equipment, you accept the responsibility for any accident that may occur on your site, at a customer's site or on a public highway."]

Federal Rules: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/truck/vehicle/cs-policy.htm

Individual states can adopt stricter rules.

 

[tomkellyiii]

I actually set the payload bucket onto the tailgate after the photo. The boom pin was in, so the backhoe bucket and stick had no where to go. There are tie down posts at all 4 corners of the trailer. The top rails actually give a stronger tie down points then the rails on the sides of many flatbeds. I have never heard that hydraulic failues are a problem when towing on a trailer. Since just about any one motion can lift the tractor off the ground (boom, stabilizers and Payloader) I cant imagine the worst experience towing could overcome the hydraulic hoses. If you have any real info on that I would love to read it.

I have been pricing dump trailers and the price increases about $1k per ft. Over 10 ft. So smaller is better for the occasional times that I take the BX for a ride.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Well look at it like this boss, shit happens and it can and will happen in time. It's not a good idea for the loader to be bouncing around in the air, the weight can weaken the seals over time and cause cylinder problems down the road. Like I said earlier its YOUR tractor, you can haul it however you want too. For me everything sits flat on my trailer deck.

 

[Kubota_Man]

On mine while going down the road the BH bucket/boom IS strapped to the trailer. My straps are 4 each rated at 5,000 lbs each for 20,000 lbs total for a 2,500 lbs tractor. As far as the red flag if they can't see that orange (contrasting color) thing that is in front of them they won't see red any better. Besides it sticks out maybe 12" if they are closer than that they are wrong anyways.

 

[olthumpa]

I have been pricing dump trailers and the price increases about $1k per ft. Over 10 ft. So smaller is better for the occasional times that I take the BX for a ride.

Just two questions:

How expensive are parts and down time?
How expensive are tickets for improperly secured loads?

I know that where I am, DOT does not have ANY sense of humor.

 

[hodge]

On mine while going down the road the BH bucket/boom IS strapped to the trailer. My straps are 4 each rated at 5,000 lbs each for 20,000 lbs total for a 2,500 lbs tractor. As far as the red flag if they can't see that orange (contrasting color) thing that is in front of them they won't see red any better. Besides it sticks out maybe 12" if they are closer than that they are wrong anyways.

You should not overestimate the strength of your straps. Those ratings, I believe, are at failure. Two, that does not take into account the magnified force in an impact- and, you can't add the 4 together for a total load rating of 20,000 pounds, because only two hold in any direction; at the most, you have 10,000 pounds. Three, I would bet that in an impact, you would far exceed 10,000 pounds momentary load on those straps. I'm not trying to be contrary- I am saying that straps are fine for some things, but only chains are adequate for heavy loads in an extreme situation, which is possible as long as the rig is on the road. I've been rear-ended by a dumptruck before- it was a slow moving bump, and it shoved me, brakes locked, into the vehicle in front of me. I can't imagine the force if it had hit me at 30-40-50 mph.

 

[skeets]

mass (m) = 10000 pound = 4535.9236999975 kilogram
acceleration (a) = 2640 foot/second^2 = 804.672 meter/second^2
(30mph)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Solution:
force (F) = 820537.08365465 pound force

http://www.ajdesigner.com/phpforce/force_equation.php

That's a whole lot more that what your tie downs are rated for, the rating is for a static load, not shock load. So a crash at this speed would be about 41 times the rated static load rating of your straps.. Is this pertinent, I don't know, but I just thought I would toss it out there just to show that numbers are sometimes misleading

 

[skeets]

Orrrr


mass (m) = 2500 pound = 1133.9809249994 kilogram
acceleration (a) = 2640 foot/second^2 = 804.672 meter/second^2
(30mph)


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

force (F) = 205134.27091366 pound force

Ok even at 2500 pounds its still 10 times greater than the tie downs

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Orrrr


mass (m) = 2500 pound = 1133.9809249994 kilogram
acceleration (a) = 2640 foot/second^2 = 804.672 meter/second^2
(30mph)


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What in the hell did you just say?!?!?!

 

[benben]

Eric
you are right I think,but what is this for a Page K> Kubota or K. Kids,Boy ohh Boy those are adults?

Benben

 

[DanDan]

Orrrr


mass (m) = 2500 pound = 1133.9809249994 kilogram
acceleration (a) = 2640 foot/second^2 = 804.672 meter/second^2
(30mph)


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

force (F) = 205134.27091366 pound force

Ok even at 2500 pounds its still 10 times greater than the tie downs

If those numbers are to be believed, then we would need something like 17 individual 1/2" grade 80 chains to strap that little sucker down.

Certainly, there are a staggering amount of forces involved in the instantaneous acceleration/decelleration of the towed load.
So stipulated.

The actual "Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration's Cargo Securement Rules" are a little less stringent, fortunately. They state:

FMCSA requires that cargo securement systems be capable of withstanding the forces associated with following three deceleration/accelerations, applied separately:

0.8 g deceleration in the forward direction;
0.5 g acceleration in the rearward direction; and
0.5 g acceleration in a lateral direction.

Further, that same standard also describes the "Minimum strength of cargo securement devices and systems":

The aggregate working load limit of any securement system used to secure an article or group of articles against movement must be at least one-half times the weight of the article or group of articles. The aggregate working load limit is the sum of:
The aggregate working load limit is the sum of:

1. One-half the working load limit of each tiedown that goes from an anchor point on the vehicle to an attachment point on an article of cargo; and
2. The working load limit for each tiedown that goes from an anchor point on the vehicle, through, over or around the cargo and then attaches to another anchor point on the vehicle.

If KubotaMan's 4 straps are rated at even 1/2 the stated rating (i.e., 2500 lbs) and the straps go from trailer to tractor, he is more than good-- per the standard:

Required to have aggregate WLL of 50% of load:
2500 * 0.5 = 1250

aggregate WLL of his 4-strap arrangement:
0.5 * 2500
+0.5 * 2500
+0.5 * 2500
+0.5 * 2500
= 5000


-------

I am not saying that I dispute Skeets figures, or that we should not have an appreciation for the severe forces involved in what we are attempting. But I am saying that there are ways to predict whether you are securing your tractor legally.


As an Air Force buddy of mine says "if the minimum wasn't good enough- it wouldn't be the minimum"


http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/truck/vehicle/cs-policy.htm

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safety-security/safety-initiatives/cargo/cs-manual-chap2.htm

 

[DanDan]

You should not overestimate the strength of your straps. Those ratings, I believe, are at failure. Two, that does not take into account the magnified force in an impact- and, you can't add the 4 together for a total load rating of 20,000 pounds, because only two hold in any direction; at the most, you have 10,000 pounds. Three, I would bet that in an impact, you would far exceed 10,000 pounds momentary load on those straps. I'm not trying to be contrary- I am saying that straps are fine for some things, but only chains are adequate for heavy loads in an extreme situation, which is possible as long as the rig is on the road. I've been rear-ended by a dumptruck before- it was a slow moving bump, and it shoved me, brakes locked, into the vehicle in front of me. I can't imagine the force if it had hit me at 30-40-50 mph.

I am not trying to be contrary either.
But...

What you are saying does not match with my interpretation of the Federal Standards (see previous post). 1) You CAN use the sum of the individual tie downs to derive an aggregate WLL. In fact, you are required to do so.
2) There is nothing in the standard that says you cannot use straps for a small tractor as described by the OP. The standards for heavy equipment (>10,000 lbs) are a little different, but for small tractors there is no such prohibition against synthetic webbing.

Safe and legal does not necessarily mean everyone has to use chains on every load.
Anecdotes and conjecture are no substitute for first-hand knowledge of the local, state, and federal laws.

 

[Wild and Free]

I don't like my Kubota to be crowded on road trips.

Other things don't get the same privilages though.

Trailer - 1995 DCT three 7K axles 26 foot deck with a 4 foot pop up dove tail so I have 30 foot total length, full 30 foot flat bed when the beaver tail is popped up.

Everything gets held on with 2 half inch chains and 2 chain binders.