Emissions delete kits??

[mike paulson]

What's the deal for obtaining emissions delete kits. Yes I'm sure it would void factory warranty but what about an out of warranty unit.
I've heard there are kits that remove all the Regen dpf filter nonsense. Just wondering about legality, resale etc

 

[GreensvilleJay]

well,depending where you live ,can be illegal to alter any of the 'emission' stuff.
so ,say you do it, then need to take tractor in for servicing(tire change ?, seat switch ?? ),dealer may be required to report you ???
dealer trade-in could be an issue ??
resale, better keep ALL the parts !!

 

[mcmxi]

What's the deal for obtaining emissions delete kits. Yes I'm sure it would void factory warranty but what about an out of warranty unit.
I've heard there are kits that remove all the Regen dpf filter nonsense. Just wondering about legality, resale etc

I'm not an expert when it comes to this sort of thing, but I probably have more first hand experience than many here.

"Emission delete kits" consist of a new program uploaded to the ECU of your tractor. Some models are programmer friendly and you don't need to remove the ECU and send it out. Others require ECU removal and shipping to a facility for bench flashing. It's up to you to take care of the rest and there are a couple of ways to go. One is to gut the inside of the DPF, another is to make a custom exhaust. The latter approach leaves the DPF as is so it can be sold or reinstalled at a later date. If you have a programmer, you can upload the original file to return the tractor to stock form. For models not supported by a programmer you'd need to send the ECU out to be returned to stock form.

I never buy a tractor with the idea to sell it or trade it and have no thought about value 5, 10 or 20 years from now. I bought my tractors to use and to accomplish various tasks, and I'm ok with modifying them to make them last longer, run better and work better. It's that simple.

As for the legality of any of this, I'm not a lawyer and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I am pretty sure that it is illegal.

We (Michigan) just had some big "diesel delete" company get fined Bigly.......

Considering that ya'll are limited to 10 round mags, I would bet that .Gov/NY is already "googling" your address.

https://www.mlive.com/news/2024/02/...leting-emissions-controls-on-semi-trucks.html

I'm not sure if they went after the customers, but I would not be surprised.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Hay, if you stay at one in Ontario, they'll stable and feed your horse !!!

 

[mcmxi]

I am pretty sure that it is illegal.

We (Michigan) just had some big "diesel delete" company get fined Bigly.......

Considering that ya'll are limited to 10 round mags, I would bet that .Gov/NY is already "googling" your address.

https://www.mlive.com/news/2024/02/...leting-emissions-controls-on-semi-trucks.html

I'm not sure if they went after the customers, but I would not be surprised.

There's a big difference between a federal tax paying company doing something and an individual. Do you expect the EPA to show up at your house. FBI, ATF, DHS .... sure .... but the EPA? They're too busy banning red food coloring that was known to cause cancer 30 years ago.

You could make the argument that adding a turbo to a 25hp tractor made after Final Tier 4 Standards were mandated is a violation of EPA regulations, but no one seems to be worried about that.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

FBI, ATF, DHS .... sure .... but the EPA?

IMHO sir, they are just another rogue '3 letter' agency.

https://www.epa.gov/archive/epapage...eleases/e2c6be490cd03cba85256a1b00770475.html


Excerpt:

The case was investigated by EPA’s Criminal Investigation Division and the Internal Revenue Service with the assistance of EPA’s National Enforcement Investigations Center.


Just Sayin.....

 

[mcmxi]

IMHO sir, they are just another rogue '3 letter' agency.

https://www.epa.gov/archive/epapage...eleases/e2c6be490cd03cba85256a1b00770475.html


Excerpt:

The case was investigated by EPA’s Criminal Investigation Division and the Internal Revenue Service with the assistance of EPA’s National Enforcement Investigations Center.


Just Sayin.....

Again, not an apples to apples comparison.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Again, not an apples to apples comparison.

Agreed.....kinda

All I'm saying is that they have the power to, and have, arrested "individuals" for "breaking the law".

My overall, point was that .gov is "watching".....

https://www.thedrive.com/news/diese...ruck-after-state-orders-deleted-emissions-fix

Kinda reminds me of "Who will watch, the Watchers?"

 

[The Evil Twin]

Agreed.....kinda

All I'm saying is that they have the power to, and have, arrested "individuals" for "breaking the law".

My overall, point was that .gov is "watching".....

https://www.thedrive.com/news/diese...ruck-after-state-orders-deleted-emissions-fix

Kinda reminds me of "Who will watch, the Watchers?"

That dude was dumb enough to list the truck as deleted. He deserved it for his stupidity.

 

[The Evil Twin]

What's the deal for obtaining emissions delete kits. Yes I'm sure it would void factory warranty but what about an out of warranty unit.
I've heard there are kits that remove all the Regen dpf filter nonsense. Just wondering about legality, resale etc

Look to the north and across the border. Seek and ye shall find.
P.S. - it will not void your entire warranty. There is the possibility that specific parts may not be covered if the dealer chooses to disclose it to K.

 

[mcmxi]

Agreed.....kinda

All I'm saying is that they have the power to, and have, arrested "individuals" for "breaking the law".

My overall, point was that .gov is "watching".....

https://www.thedrive.com/news/diese...ruck-after-state-orders-deleted-emissions-fix

Kinda reminds me of "Who will watch, the Watchers?"

This sentence stood out to me.

" Selling vehicles with deleted emissions equipment is illegal in New Jersey, and rather than returning the Ram to its stock configuration, he opted to turn in his plates so he could keep it for off-road use."

I see more than a few "emissions delete" vehicles listed for sale up here. State laws are very different as we know, so this was a state issue and not a federal one.

 

[mcmxi]

Look to the north and across the border. Seek and ye shall find.
P.S. - it will not void your entire warranty. There is the possibility that specific parts may not be covered if the dealer chooses to disclose it to K.

Yep. Start with Reimer Tuning and TM AG Tuning.

I spoke to the local Kubota dealer about programmers and such many months ago, and the manager told me that they can't install such upgrades (obviously), but also that they're under no obligation to inform anyone of modifications to a tractor. They have the option to inform Kubota if they believe that the modification was responsible for the failure of a warrantied part, but that's at their discretion.

As for contacting some government agency, hell no, unless the ballast in the rear tires appears to be a white powdery substance that seems to be affecting the technicians.

 

[SDT]

What's the deal for obtaining emissions delete kits. Yes I'm sure it would void factory warranty but what about an out of warranty unit.
I've heard there are kits that remove all the Regen dpf filter nonsense. Just wondering about legality, resale etc

Don't know of any emissions delete "kits" for Kubota tractors.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

in my parts we have 2 local companies that make deletes on semi's and ag. tractors and all forms of diesel engines. Most of their customers are semi's though. Drive past their shops and you can see mounds of removed emissions stuff as they both have been doing it for many years.

I have no first hand experience only what is discussed locally by others.

the general belief and experience around here is that making the deletes is successful but a slew of problems regularly pop up that means repairs can only be made at the shop that did the delete as dealers won't risk touching equipment afterwards. The deletes don't stop the need for specialized software for other problems like diagnostics so needing access to dealers and their computers is kinda important for a whole slew of problems that could arise not related to just dpf / DEF changes and trying to figure out what problems are.

Also it seems deleted equipment is really hard to re-sell as limits buyers interested due to repair concerns, the difficulty in even getting diagnostics on problems made, safety/emission check stops for road based equipment that could take the equipment out of service, etc... Guys who have done deletes seem to say they plan to drive their stuff forever and never sell and the need to do diagnostics is never going to be needed as tractors should last 60 years if maintained.

 

[mcmxi]

in my parts we have 2 local companies that make deletes on semi's and ag. tractors and all forms of diesel engines. Most of their customers are semi's though. Drive past their shops and you can see mounds of removed emissions stuff as they both have been doing it for many years.

I have no first hand experience only what is discussed locally by others.

the general belief and experience around here is that making the deletes is successful but a slew of problems regularly pop up that means repairs can only be made at the shop that did the delete as dealers won't risk touching equipment afterwards. The deletes don't stop the need for specialized software for other problems like diagnostics so needing access to dealers and their computers is kinda important for a whole slew of problems that could arise not related to just dpf / DEF changes and trying to figure out what problems are.

Also it seems deleted equipment is really hard to re-sell as limits buyers interested due to repair concerns, the difficulty in even getting diagnostics on problems made, safety/emission check stops for road based equipment that could take the equipment out of service, etc... Guys who have done deletes seem to say they plan to drive their stuff forever and never sell and the need to do diagnostics is never going to be needed as tractors should last 60 years if maintained.

When it comes to our tractors, preventing EGR, removing the restrictive DPF filters, reducing heat under the hood, reducing fuel consumption, lowering rpm, improving fuel mapping, getting heat away from the turbo faster etc., can only reduce the likelihood of problems down the road. Other than the lines of code required for regen related stuff, all other diagnostic features are maintained, so any troubleshooting down the road is no more complex.

If the code that has been uploaded to the ECU works on day one, it should be working on day 3,650 since nothing has changed. When you upload the file to the ECU, or have the ECU flashed, the tuners suggest starting up the tractor before any other remediation work to make sure that there are no error codes. If no codes are present it's on to the next step.