David, I am not a very serious type of guy, that's why I use the smiley faces often.
Manufactures still make cars, trucks and tractors with manual transitions. They do this for a reason, because people want them and buy them. No comment on why they dropped the hand crank thing.
You have absolutely nothing good to say about geared tractors with clutchs, but I've taken no offense to that. Ease up on us manual trans guys and all will be better.
If you feel I owe you an apology, then I apologize.
Bluegill,
I will also take the opportunity to apologize for my comments. It is just a bad day today.
In any case, I have said one good thing about manuals and clutches. Even I have admitted that I might consider a manual transmission for one particular purpose, and that is large row cropping where there is no need to change gears or start and stop on a regular basis. I have posted this information twice on this forum board.
One thing I do not do if you have noted is to post how superior HST's are when someone posts with a manual transmission / clutch issue. That is not the place. I will however support the HST in any discussion in a debate on pros and cons on the two types, just as many others will promote manuals. I do believe that those posts asking for advice or opinion on one or the other is the place to post.
But you are right, I don't have a lot to say good about them. They have cost me personally a good part of the quality of my life. I live in pain from shifting and clutching. I have had one shoulder surgery to date. I would do almost anything to avoid that again.
I was a hard nosed manual transmission guy for years until the ergonomics caught up with me. Yes, there was a time when everything I had was a manual. I freely admit that. I was also under the belief that a manual was better, which I believe was correct when comparing old technology power transmission devices of the fluid, automatic or early HST design type.
Comparing a old three speed open converter automatic to a 5 or 6 speed manual? the manual can do more, and more economically, although at a penalty to the human body. My main point here is that things have changed. We do not have that type of slushbox now. We have at least four, if not 5,6,7 or 8 speed automatics now. With lockup converters to boot. That brings the fuel economy up to the level of the manual, or in some cases can outdo the manual, with no body damage. Really a win for everyone and every purpose.
Changes? Certainly. HST plus is a real improvement. Automated manuals in Class 8 trucks are a real improvement as well. The main point is this, things have changed, some of the old drawbacks to a automatic, a HST have been addressed, and corrected. Those old issues are no longer relevant and do not apply to the purchase of many new tractors, or cars and trucks for that matter. And why the same old thoughts / perceptions / realities that were the case 5, 10, 20 or even 50 years ago keep getting recycled for other that historical documentation, or grins I just do not understand.
A basic manual though, still has as many drawbacks today as it did 50 years ago. BUT that said, one positive improvement is the GST type manual. To me, whatever can be done to reduce the clutching and heavy shifting (not a lever to flick back and forth) is a bonus and a real win.
Funny thing is this. It is posted in another section where a 91 year old is still hard at work. But he lost a hand due to lack of power steering and the resultant manual gearbox kickback. While certainly not a manual transmission issue directly, a direct correlation to ergonomics where you let the machine take the beating and not the body is noted here. Something as simple as power steering, something many us take for granted now, and many would not even consider buying a tractor or car without would have potentially let this man live his life with both of his God given hands.
That is my main point as I have always said. it really comes down to quality of life, and ergonomics should be a large part of this whole discussion.
In fact, I could argue that ergonomics and reducing body damage is the ONLY issue in reality as tractors, cars and trucks can be replaced, but we only get one body. Others might disagree, at least until they start falling apart and no amount of money can put them back together again.
David
