Loader Hydraulics Setup/Power Beyond

[amschind]

I have the mounts for my new to me Westendorf TA26 mounted up on my M6800, which required some die grinder surgery, a come along and a farm jack. But it's mounted. Next step is hydraulics as this loader didn't come with a control block. I'm very much a novice with hydraulics, but getting this set upis a great learning experience so that I know how to maintain things.

I started by making a dumb mistake, adding an extra set of remote ports. I then came to understand that these will only ever respond to the valve built into the remote block, which negates their utility as the hydraulic fluid source for the loader control valve. So I got that installed and now have 4 remotes but am not closer to a working FEL. Looking deeper, it became apparent that the FEL control block runs off of a feed line from the big hydraulic block on the back of v the transmission/PTO/3 point arms, but I started to get confused by the tank and POWER BEYOND outs.

It seems like the power beyond port allows the loader control block to pass hydraulic fluid through so that the same fluid can power the 3 point arms, though I am still hazy on that exact flow path. I am also unclear on the need for tank and power beyond vs one out to power beyond. I want to be more clear on the relationship between the tank and power beyond outs, specifically what the power beyond valve actually is and how a separate route to the tank would not siphon all of the flow away from a high pressure line out to the 3 point control arms.

Basically my crude/inaccurate mental model is that the tank port is basically either a "leak" T'ed into the power beyond circuit or an emergency flow path for a relief valve, but I don't think either of those statements are accurate.

Here is the valve block I have and the power beyond valve:
Magister PB valve
Magister 2 spool open center control block
Any help appreciated.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I have the mounts for my new to me Westendorf TA26 mounted up on my M6800, which required some die grinder surgery, a come along and a farm jack. But it's mounted. Next step is hydraulics as this loader didn't come with a control block. I'm very much a novice with hydraulics, but getting this set upis a great learning experience so that I know how to maintain things.

I started by making a dumb mistake, adding an extra set of remote ports. I then came to understand that these will only ever respond to the valve built into the remote block, which negates their utility as the hydraulic fluid source for the loader control valve. So I got that installed and now have 4 remotes but am not closer to a working FEL. Looking deeper, it became apparent that the FEL control block runs off of a feed line from the big hydraulic block on the back of v the transmission/PTO/3 point arms, but I started to get confused by the tank and POWER BEYOND outs.

It seems like the power beyond port allows the loader control block to pass hydraulic fluid through so that the same fluid can power the 3 point arms, though I am still hazy on that exact flow path. I am also unclear on the need for tank and power beyond vs one out to power beyond. I want to be more clear on the relationship between the tank and power beyond outs, specifically what the power beyond valve actually is and how a separate route to the tank would not siphon all of the flow away from a high pressure line out to the 3 point control arms.

Basically my crude/inaccurate mental model is that the tank port is basically either a "leak" T'ed into the power beyond circuit or an emergency flow path for a relief valve, but I don't think either of those statements are accurate.

Here is the valve block I have and the power beyond valve:
Magister PB valve
Magister 2 spool open center control block
Any help appreciated.

Pictures of what you have done do far would be extremely helpful. I am assuming this is an open station tractor. and presumably you are going to mount your new valve on the right loader tower like Kubota does with their loaders.

Now for the plumbing. You are going to tie into the hydraulic outlet block nest to the factory rear remote valve{s}. The parts diagram for the outlet block is shown below.

1. Remove plug #140 and run a hose from that port to the P inlet on your loader valve. That is the pump supply going to the loader valve.
2. Remove plug #130 and connect that port to the power beyond (N) port on the loader valve. That is the power beyond line that returns the pump supply to the rear remotes.
3. Now rotate the selector valve #80 to the full extent of its travel. That diverts the pump supply that is currently going to the remotes out to the loader valve. Your owners manual should have a section describing all of this.

Now here is your loader valve and plumbing described above. Fittimg #70 is the hose going to the P port on the loader valve and fitting #60 is the hose from the PB port on the loader valve. The next and final step is to connect the T port on the loader valve to the location #90 on the back of the hydraulic housing.

Thats all there is to it. Study the diagrams and mull on it a bit and then we will see if we can answer any questions you may still have.

 

[amschind]

Thanks!!!

That makes far more sense. I think that my confusion arose from my lack of understanding that the loader control valve is placed in series before the rest of the remotes and the 3 point control. With regard to the tank line, I mistakenly believed that the power beyond VALVE was plumbed into the Power Beyond LINE. In reality, it seems like the power beyond valve is a pressure sensitive valve on the line to the tank which does function as a pressure relief valve once a pressure threshold is met in the circuit (please correct me if that's wrong).

Your commentary on those parts diagrams is far more helpful than the diagrams from the loader manual, which show the various hoses attaching at vague points to the tractor hydraulics.

Thanks again!

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks!!!

That makes far more sense. I think that my confusion arose from my lack of understanding that the loader control valve is placed in series before the rest of the remotes and the 3 point control. With regard to the tank line, I mistakenly believed that the power beyond VALVE was plumbed into the Power Beyond LINE. In reality, it seems like the power beyond valve is a pressure sensitive valve on the line to the tank which does function as a pressure relief valve once a pressure threshold is met in the circuit (please correct me if that's wrong).

Your commentary on those parts diagrams is far more helpful than the diagrams from the loader manual, which show the various hoses attaching at vague points to the tractor hydraulics.

Thanks again!

You are more than welcome.

The pressure beyond sleeve is not a valve. It is just a tube that isolates the tank flow from the power beyond flow.

When the control valve is in neutral the flow is out from the block to the inlet on the control valve, through the center of the valve, out the power beyond sleeve, and back to the pump return port on the tractor

The only time there is flow on the tank line is when the loader valve is operated. Oil returned from the cylinders goes straight to tank via the tank line. It never mixes with the pump flow. There is one other use for the tank line. If the pressire inside the loader valve exceeds the relief valve setting the excess pressure is sent to tank via the tank line.

Dan

 

[amschind]

You are more than welcome.

The pressure beyond sleeve is not a valve. It is just a tube that isolates the tank flow from the power beyond flow.

When the control valve is in neutral the flow is out from the block to the inlet on the control valve, through the center of the valve, out the power beyond sleeve, and back to the pump return port on the tractor

The only time there is flow on the tank line is when the loader valve is operated. Oil returned from the cylinders goes straight to tank via the tank line. It never mixes with the pump flow. There is one other use for the tank line. If the pressire inside the loader valve exceeds the relief valve setting the excess pressure is sent to tank via the tank line.

Dan

That makes sense. Basically, if the fluid coming out from the cylinders were hitting a wall of fluid in the power beyond circuit at equal pressure, then there would be no pressure delta to operate the cylinder?

 

[amschind]

Last question: magister says they won't have the power beyond plug in stock for at least 3 months, so I will probably just get a summit block and pb plug. Summit offers single spool float as an option,but I'm unclear if that's something that I'd require or hate on a loader control. Is there any community wisdom on the pros and cons?

 

[TheOldHokie]

That makes sense. Basically, if the fluid coming out from the cylinders were hitting a wall of fluid in the power beyond circuit at equal pressure, then there would be no pressure delta to operate the cylinder?

Sort of.

If the oil coming back from the cylinder is sent out the power beyond and a downstream valve is operated at the same time you would have the cylinders in series. The loads are additive and you lose cylinder power.

If the oil coming back from the cylinder goes to tank and the downstream valve is operated using the residual flow in the power beyond circuit the cylinders are in parallel and the loads are not additive.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

Last question: magister says they won't have the power beyond plug in stock for at least 3 months, so I will probably just get a summit block and pb plug. Summit offers single spool float as an option,but I'm unclear if that's something that I'd require or hate on a loader control. Is there any community wisdom on the pros and cons?

You definitly WANT float on the boom. Since you have not purchased a valve I would also recommend a joystick over two sticks. More than worth the added cost.

Hydraulic Directional Control Valve for Tractor Loader w/ Joystick, 2 Spool (Single Float Spool Optional), 11 GPM

FREE SHIPPING This Monoblock Hydraulic Directional Control Valve uses a Joystick, 2 Spools and has a capacity of 11 GPM. These valves are used to start and stop fluid flow into hydraulic cylinders or hydraulic motors.

summit-hydraulics.com

Dan

 

[amschind]

Good news! Got everything hooked up and it works great. Thanks all for the great advice!

Barn Cat believes that he deserves 95% of the credit for his supervisory role; that is still being negotiated. The Facebook special Westendorf TA26 had unfortunate hoses and no control valve and one of the grease zerks on a pin had been treated as decorative. The pin eventually yielded, and was found to still be within "farm spec tolerances" ( GO= "it fits"/NOGO= "it doesn't rattle so much that it annoys me"). So I replaced all of the hoses and; I covered them all with nylon sleeves BUT completely forgot to give the hydraulic hose shop my ag tax exempt number.... rookie mistake. The description in this thread for the interaction between the control valve and the tractor hydraulics was awesome and honestly more useful than the tractor and loader manuals. The bracket for the control valve was designed and custom built by an authentic Fighting Texas Aggie from a piece of scrap, a drill press and a cut off saw. The attachments to the tractor hydraulics block needed some bends: the power beyond return did best with a 45 and the fluid supply to the control valve did best with a 90. Finally, I set the block up with all 90s into quick detach lines and the control block mounted to the loader. I don't know if I'll ever remove it, but if I did I only need to remove 3 quick detach hoses and then I can pull it off the mount bracket.

 

[Chanceywd]

Good news! Got everything hooked up and it works great. Thanks all for the great advice!

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Barn Cat believes that he deserves 95% of the credit for his supervisory role; that is still being negotiated. The Facebook special Westendorf TA26 had unfortunate hoses and no control valve and one of the grease zerks on a pin had been treated as decorative. The pin eventually yielded, and was found to still be within "farm spec tolerances" ( GO= "it fits"/NOGO= "it doesn't rattle so much that it annoys me"). So I replaced all of the hoses and; I covered them all with nylon sleeves BUT completely forgot to give the hydraulic hose shop my ag tax exempt number.... rookie mistake. The description in this thread for the interaction between the control valve and the tractor hydraulics was awesome and honestly more useful than the tractor and loader manuals. The bracket for the control valve was designed and custom built by an authentic Fighting Texas Aggie from a piece of scrap, a drill press and a cut off saw. The attachments to the tractor hydraulics block needed some bends: the power beyond return did best with a 45 and the fluid supply to the control valve did best with a 90. Finally, I set the block up with all 90s into quick detach lines and the control block mounted to the loader. I don't know if I'll ever remove it, but if I did I only need to remove 3 quick detach hoses and then I can pull it off the mount bracket.

I might be wrong but I think If you ever did remove it ,
you need to be able to connect the P hose and N hose together or you are going to be deadheading your pump. You would need those 2 quick detach hose as you refer to them to have male on one and female on the other in anticipation of that need.

Bill

 

[amschind]

I might be wrong but I think If you ever did remove it ,
you need to be able to connect the P hose and N hose together or you are going to be deadheading your pump. You would need those 2 quick detach hose as you refer to them to have male on one and female on the other in anticipation of that need.

Bill

That's a great point. The other option is to just flip the valve in n the hydraulic block back 90 degrees to it's original position. I'll have to ponder if the female-female jumper is or the valve adjustment tool is more likely to get lost.

 

[Chanceywd]

That's a great point. The other option is to just flip the valve in n the hydraulic block back 90 degrees to it's original position. I'll have to ponder if the female-female jumper is or the valve adjustment tool is more likely to get lost.

Sorry I forgot you have a valve to flip, But if forgotten it would act like a dead head I think.

Still a nice on your install!

Bill