L3010 No lights No Crank

[michaelr]

Hi,
I have an L3010 GST that went dead on me. At the beginning of this problem, the dash warning lights would come on when I turned on the key but when I turned the key to start, I just heard a clunk (from the solenoid I presume) and then the lights would go out. If I tried again, I would get no lights or anything. If I let it set for a little while, I would get the dash lights again and the clunk one time and then nothing again. Over the next several days as I tried to diagnose the problem, the lights gradually quit coming on at all when I would try the key. Now I've got nothing--it is now 3 weeks later.

I thought it was a bad ground or battery. I had the battery checked at NAPA--it's good. I replaced the ground from the battery to the frame (after wire brushing the frame so it was shiny). Using a multimeter, I have fire from the battery to the starter. I have continuity on both the PTO and neutral safety switches.

After doing more tracing with the multimeter and reading some old posts on this forum, I replaced the starter relay and the ignition switch. Still nothing.

After replacing the relay and switch, the multimeter shows I have fire on the plugin to the relay (where the red wire comes in), but nothing on the other terminals when I turn the key. I pulled the plugin to the starter solenoid and checked it with the meter--no fire when I turn the key.

It seem like the circuit is broken somewhere. Maybe the glow relay? I am running out of ideas. Any thoughts?

Thanks

 

[RCW]

Do you have a Workshop Manual (WSM) with electrical diagram? If not, get one here.

www.kubotabooks.com

Believe me, I'm not good at electrical stuff. Sounds like you're decent with a meter.
Looks like you're throwing some parts at it. I'd try to limit that in favor of tracing down the problem.

Have you checked the slow blow fuse and other fuses/connections in the box? My fuse box was a regular dust bowl last time I was into it.

Any obvious mouse damage?

 

[Dave_eng]

Hi,
I have an L3010 GST that went dead on me. At the beginning of this problem, the dash warning lights would come on when I turned on the key but when I turned the key to start, I just heard a clunk (from the solenoid I presume) and then the lights would go out. If I tried again, I would get no lights or anything. If I let it set for a little while, I would get the dash lights again and the clunk one time and then nothing again. Over the next several days as I tried to diagnose the problem, the lights gradually quit coming on at all when I would try the key. Now I've got nothing--it is now 3 weeks later.

I thought it was a bad ground or battery. I had the battery checked at NAPA--it's good. I replaced the ground from the battery to the frame (after wire brushing the frame so it was shiny). Using a multimeter, I have fire from the battery to the starter. I have continuity on both the PTO and neutral safety switches.

After doing more tracing with the multimeter and reading some old posts on this forum, I replaced the starter relay and the ignition switch. Still nothing.

After replacing the relay and switch, the multimeter shows I have fire on the plugin to the relay (where the red wire comes in), but nothing on the other terminals when I turn the key. I pulled the plugin to the starter solenoid and checked it with the meter--no fire when I turn the key.

It seem like the circuit is broken somewhere. Maybe the glow relay? I am running out of ideas. Any thoughts?

Thanks

Likely your battery ground connection to the tractor frame is not good. Remove it and polish the mating surfaces
Dave

 

[Honeyman]

I have a L3240 that had similar issue, was running and just died. Talked to Kubota dealer, and found shorted wire,( for the seat, pto and shuttle shift safety switch), on top of transmission, redid the connections and it worked great for about 2 years now.

 

[michaelr]

Do you have a Workshop Manual (WSM) with electrical diagram? If not, get one here.

www.kubotabooks.com

Believe me, I'm not good at electrical stuff. Sounds like you're decent with a meter.
Looks like you're throwing some parts at it. I'd try to limit that in favor of tracing down the problem.

Have you checked the slow blow fuse and other fuses/connections in the box? My fuse box was a regular dust bowl last time I was into it.

Any obvious mouse damage?

Thanks for the link--good info.

I'm still shaky with electrical stuff, too. I started replacing parts after my limited experience with the meter seemed to indicate it was in the relay or main switch. Wrong.

I replaced the slow blow fuse, too. The other fuses checked out with the meter.

No obvious mouse damage--but that is always a possibility. So far I haven't seen any.

 

[michaelr]

Likely your battery ground connection to the tractor frame is not good. Remove it and polish the mating surfaces
Dave

I did that. The ground is good.

 

[michaelr]

I have a L3240 that had similar issue, was running and just died. Talked to Kubota dealer, and found shorted wire,( for the seat, pto and shuttle shift safety switch), on top of transmission, redid the connections and it worked great for about 2 years now.

I keep thinking it might be in one of the safety switches or wiring, but so far, I haven't found anything. When your tractor died, did all the electrical stuff black out, too? I have no dash lights, headlights, or flashers.

 

[Russell King]

You have a classic problem that will be resolved as soon as you locate the problem in the wiring.

You did not say anything about replacing or cleaning the battery cable ends.

Since those are relatively inexpensive you may want to just replace them but you can clean the battery posts to be shiny, clean both ends of the positive cable, the battery end of the negative cable and see if that helps. Those cables also can become corroded internal to the insulation and not carry many amps.

You can also attach a set of jumper cables to the battery at one end and attach the opposite end of the positive one to the same stud as the battery cable (double up on the cable there). Then attach the negative cable to some clean bolt on the starter. See if that helps.

The multimeter is a good indicator of where you do have voltage but it does not really draw any amperes through the wire you are testing. There are many descriptions of voltage drop testing that you may want to do as a general troubleshooting step in your situation. They are here on this forum and all over the web.

I suggest that you focus on getting 12 volts to the starter with a cable that can carry some amperage and see if the dash comes back to life. If you look at the stud where the positive cable attaches to the starter there may be additional red wires there. Those wires feed power to the key switch and basically anything that receives power supply (except the starter). If you feed 12 volts there and nothing is still working on the dash that indicates you have a problem on the wiring harness of the tractor. If everything on the dash starts working then you know you have a battery to tractor wiring problem. Sometimes the positive feed wires come off the positive battery terminal but probably not on your tractor.

If you feel like it and know how to “jump the starter” you can bypass all safety switches and wiring of the tractor to prove the starter will crank the engine. That is a dangerous thing to do so don’t try it if you don’t know what you’re doing. Ask for help or instructions from someone you trust would be safe. You can find all types of descriptions of how to do that. If the starter works then you eliminate the battery, cables and starter from the possibly bad category. This is my second test after cleaning the battery connection and cables.

Good luck and keep asking questions and you will get through it. You can also have the dealer or a mechanic fix it of course.

 

[N3BP]

Use a set of jumper cables and manually connect the battery terminal of the starter to a good working battery and see if that spins you over. Ground the battery as close to the starter body as possible.

If this works, your positive cable/terminals could be bad, or bad ground beyond the cable. A continuity check can be misleading when diagnosing starting issues. It will show you have continuity , but not good enough to flow the 100+ amps of current the starter will draw. The fact that get a "click" could indicate a partial current flow. Give that a shot and report back.

 

[N3BP]

Use a set of jumper cables and manually connect the battery terminal of the starter to a good working battery and see if that spins you over. Ground the battery as close to the starter body as possible.

If this works, your positive cable/terminals could be bad, or bad ground beyond the cable. A continuity check can be misleading when diagnosing starting issues. It will show you have continuity , but not good enough to flow the 100+ amps of current the starter will draw. The fact that get a "click" could indicate a partial current flow. Give that a shot and report back.

EDIT: Russell, I just read your post (sorry it was a long one and I initially skipped over it). I basically repeated everything you said. But it's worth repeating because I believe we are correct in our thinking.

 

[airbiscuit]

I agree with running a jumper cable directly to where the positive battery cable connects to the starter. That happened to my 3010, and the terminal looked okay, but it wasn't. A new POSITIVE battery cable fixed the problem.

 

[lugbolt]

follow the plus cord (aka positive battery cable) from the battery and back. Just near the battery, you'll find, IIRC a black plastic connector where the positive cable splits off--one end goes to the starter, the other end 'feeds' the rest of the electrical system. That connector is notorious for corrosion. Kubota does not sell it, you have to get the whole cable assembly and possibly the rest of the wiring harness if that end is damaged. OR option #2, cut the connector off just do away with it. You'll have to figure out how to connect it to the battery somehow, but it's easy.

I "think" it was the grand L 10 and 30 series that had these...I remember doing a few of the Grand L's with this issue.

also double and triple check the 'earth cord' and it's connection at the chassis.

 

[Honeyman]

I keep thinking it might be in one of the safety switches or wiring, but so far, I haven't found anything. When your tractor died, did all the electrical stuff black out, too? I have no dash lights, headlights, or flashers.

No the dash still lit up and everything seemed normal until you tried to start it. Sounds like a main fuse blown or bad battery connection somewhere

 

[michaelr]

[
IQUOTE="Russell King, post: 752389, member: 9243"]
You have a classic problem that will be resolved as soon as you locate the problem in the wiring.

Y
ou did not say anything about replacing or cleaning the battery cable ends.

Since those are relatively inexpensive you may want to just replace them but you can clean the battery posts to be shiny, clean both ends of the positive cable, the battery end of the negative cable and see if that helps. Those cables also can become corroded internal to the insulation and not carry many amps.

You can also attach a set of jumper cables to the battery at one end and attach the opposite end of the positive one to the same stud as the battery cable (double up on the cable there). Then attach the negative cable to some clean bolt on the starter. See if that helps.

The multimeter is a good indicator of where you do have voltage but it does not really draw any amperes through the wire you are testing. There are many descriptions of voltage drop testing that you may want to do as a general troubleshooting step in your situation. They are here on this forum and all over the web.

I suggest that you focus on getting 12 volts to the starter with a cable that can carry some amperage and see if the dash comes back to life. If you look at the stud where the positive cable attaches to the starter there may be additional red wires there. Those wires feed power to the key switch and basically anything that receives power supply (except the starter). If you feed 12 volts there and nothing is still working on the dash that indicates you have a problem on the wiring harness of the tractor. If everything on the dash starts working then you know you have a battery to tractor wiring problem. Sometimes the positive feed wires come off the positive battery terminal but probably not on your tractor.

If you feel like it and know how to “jump the starter” you can bypass all safety switches and wiring of the tractor to prove the starter will crank the engine. That is a dangerous thing to do so don’t try it if you don’t know what you’re doing. Ask for help or instructions from someone you trust would be safe. You can find all types of descriptions of how to do that. If the starter works then you eliminate the battery, cables and starter from the possibly bad category. This is my second test after cleaning the battery connection and cables.

Good luck and keep asking questions and you will get through it. You can also have the dealer or a mechanic fix it of course.
[/QUOTE]

I attached a jumper cable from the positive battery post to the starter post and that cured the problem.
Thanks! And thanks to everyone else who responded.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

When the main fuse is blown, NOTHING will light up or work...

 

[michaelr]

Well, I got a new positive battery cable made at NAPA and installed it. The tractor started right up. That's the good news. But now when I turn the key off, the engine won't stop. I had to pull the stop cable.

While I was still trying to figure out the starting problem, I replaced the key switch. The old key switch (which was probably OK) would shut down the engine when I turned it off. The new switch doesn't.

The owners manual says that the engine should stop when the key is turned off and if you have to pull the stop cable to shut down the engine, you should consult the dealer. Is this a problem?

 

[N3BP]

The engine stop feature is controlled through a timer module. You can read about its operation in the attachment. The ignition switch shouldn't be your problem, but you can always put the old switch back in to test that theory (assuming you didn't pitch it).
There are two fuses that provide power to the module. Make sure all your fuses are good and seated properly.
If it's more complicated, then you need to test all the wiring in the attachment. Or, you can just live with it not working and use the pull stop.

 

[Russell King]

Well, I got a new positive battery cable made at NAPA and installed it. The tractor started right up. That's the good news. But now when I turn the key off, the engine won't stop. I had to pull the stop cable.

While I was still trying to figure out the starting problem, I replaced the key switch. The old key switch (which was probably OK) would shut down the engine when I turned it off. The new switch doesn't.

The owners manual says that the engine should stop when the key is turned off and if you have to pull the stop cable to shut down the engine, you should consult the dealer. Is this a problem?

I would assume that the fuse is blown or the wiring is wrong at the key switch.

See if there is a blown fuse somewhere in the circuits, then if none found verify the power is applied or removed from the stop (or run) solenoid. If the power is NOT applied properly then I would assume you wired the key switch improperly and check it again.

Then if that is all proper you can move into where the power supply is not working or if it is the timer or the solenoid that is not working properly.

 

[michaelr]

The engine stop feature is controlled through a timer module. You can read about its operation in the attachment. The ignition switch shouldn't be your problem, but you can always put the old switch back in to test that theory (assuming you didn't pitch it).
There are two fuses that provide power to the module. Make sure all your fuses are good and seated properly.
If it's more complicated, then you need to test all the wiring in the attachment. Or, you can just live with it not working and use the pull stop.

Are the two fuses in the fusebox or elsewhere? I only see the key stop fuse in the fusebox. I replaced it but still no start.

 

[michaelr]

I would assume that the fuse is blown or the wiring is wrong at the key switch.

See if there is a blown fuse somewhere in the circuits, then if none found verify the power is applied or removed from the stop (or run) solenoid. If the power is NOT applied properly then I would assume you wired the key switch improperly and check it again.

Then if that is all proper you can move into where the power supply is not working or if it is the timer or the solenoid that is not working properly.

The new key switch just plugs into the connection, so I assume the wiring is correct. I put the old key switch back in and it still would not shut down the engine in the stop position, so it's not the key switch.

I checked the fuses in the fuse box with the ohmmeter and they are good. I also cleaned them with sandpaper. I replaced the slow blow fuse.

I see the two fuses in the wiring diagram, but I cannot locate them on the tractor. I hope they aren't buried behind something. Where are they?