Kubota refuses to honor my 5 Year Emissions Warranty on my B3350

[HAWD]

I was also just informed that the parts will be available for inspection. Again, thank you to everyone for your input. I'm learning so much from your posts.
My Dad was my hero and I just cannot let him down on this.

 

[Old Machinist]

To put this all in perspective can you post the delivery date on the tractor and the date it went in for this repair? This will determine if it was in fact under warranty.

Regardless I still maintain that no repair this expensive should EVER be performed without prior notification and authorization.

 

[HAWD]

To put this all in perspective can you post the delivery date on the tractor and the date it went in for this repair? This will determine if it was in fact under warranty.

Regardless I still maintain that no repair this expensive should EVER be performed without prior notification and authorization.

It was still under the 5 Year Emissions warranty up until July 14th. Tractor was at M and R in beginning of June and currently still there.

 

[mcmxi]

Treads like this are why I stay with older equipment.

The B3350 has long been known as a Kubota to stay away from. I'm not aware of any other DPF models that have a reputation for being problematic. When the ECU tells me to do a regen I do it and don't even think about overriding the "suggestion". So far no issues in around 400 hours of DPF ownership.

 

[SDT]

Sadly this posting show why it's necessary to have emails or texts and NOT phone conversations. The former are a 'paper trail' with names,dates, information and the latter 'magically poof gone'.
Sure hope Kubota steps up and fixes the tractor for free AND apologizes for the 'miscommunications'.

Bingo, and such advice was given.

 

[SDT]

The B3350 has long been known as a Kubota to stay away from. I'm not aware of any other DPF models that have a reputation for being problematic. When the ECU tells me to do a regen I do it and don't even think about overriding the "suggestion". So far no issues in around 400 hours of DPF ownership.

The reformer based 1.5 L engine as used in the B3350 was also used in TOL F series mowers and (I believe) TOL ZTRs as well as multiple industrial applications.

If my information is correct the OP did not inhibit any regeneration operations, though such is possible and I routinely did so with my B3350 (since sold), but only after I understood the firmware algorithm.

Reformer based B3350 DPF system completely different from all electronically injected systems, which are usually seamless.

Regarding problematic, stay tuned for DEF systems, which will almost certainly prove problematic for many (most?) owners. Utility tractor usage is much different than PU usage.

 

[HAWD]

I couldn’t sleep this weekend thinking about it. I decided to reach out to everyone I could find on Kubota including Todd Stucke, President on his indeed.
Let’s hope someone sees it!

 

[HAWD]

The reformer based 1.5 L engine as used in the B3350 was also used in TOL F series mowers and (I believe) TOL ZTRs as well as multiple industrial applications.

If my information is correct the OP did not inhibit any regeneration operations, though such is possible and I routinely did so with my B3350 (since sold), but only after I understood the firmware algorithm.

Reformer based B3350 DPF system completely different from all electronically injected systems, which are usually seamless.

Regarding problematic, stay tuned for DEF systems, which will almost certainly prove problematic for many (most?) owners. Utility tractor usage is much different than PU usage.

We never inhibited any REGEN, ever. That again is why I keep trying to find out the cause. I do not want to worry that the exact same issue will re-occur in a a few years or sooner. I know that the Reformer needs to be replaced to ensure we will not have this happen again. So I am fighting for both, the current DPF filter and the reformer. Selling the tractor isn't an option. We cannot maintain the property without. We have incurred $7500 in costs this summer from having to hire a local farmer to cut the property for us. This is do or die for us.. either we get the tractor up and running and cut the losses or I am afraid our family property will be sold.

 

[fried1765]

Amen

I just went out and hugged my 2006 L48 TLB,.......AGAIN!
No "reformer", no "DEF", and only 251 hours, when I bought her from a private party, in 2019.
She is a barn queen now, (occasional use) and I like it that way.
Just waiting for me, if/when I need her!

 

[Yotekiller]

I just went out and hugged my 2006 L48 TLB,.......AGAIN!
No "reformer", no "DEF", and only 251 hours, when I bought her from a private party, in 2019.
She is a barn queen now, (occasional use) and I like it that way.
Just waiting for me, if/when I need her!

Agreed. There was no changing my mind that I absolutely did not want an emissions tractor. If I needed a larger tractor, there are a TON of low hour older models out there to be had.

 

[mcmxi]

If my information is correct the OP did not inhibit any regeneration operations, though such is possible and I routinely did so with my B3350 (since sold), but only after I understood the firmware algorithm.

I didn't say that the OP inhibited any regens, just saying that I have 400 hours of trouble free DPF ownership and expect to have thousands of hours of trouble-free ownership.

My friend is the manager of the local Kubota dealership and he has an L6060 as well as my old BX25D in addition to other Kubota equipment including an excavator. I trust him completely since he has an incredible amount of Kubota experience compared to most. He's managed that dealership for decades, and not only is he privy to every warranty issue that comes through the dealership, he's also familiar with all non-warranty work so he has a way more accurate picture of Kubota products than most here. One of the their biggest customers is a mining company and you can imagine the type of use/abuse and hours accumulated. When he says that the DPF system is not an issue over thousands of hours of use and hundreds of pieces of equipment, I tend to believe him.

There must be so many dumb farmers out there buying $250k tractors with DPF and DEF who actually need their equipement to work. Oh the horror of owing such a piece of junk. But what do they know compared to the 50 hour a year or less tractor hugging experts here? What a joke!

 

[JRHill]

Agreed. There was no changing my mind that I absolutely did not want an emissions tractor. If I needed a larger tractor, there are a TON of low hour older models out there to be had.

And that goes for a city-town pickup too. Fortunately most of our driving is county/state highway for 3/4 of the way. I'm not sure the newer rig would regen in that time? I don't expect to have to find out.

 

[Hydro]

Target temp to even start regeneration is 1100 F
Most of the operation of these small tractors will not generate that kind of heat
The reformer is adding fuel in front of the DPF to cause that heat during a regen
in "normal" operation the exhaust temp would be lucky to hit 800 F

Short run times will not allow the exhaust to heat near enough
mowing normal grass may not generate enough heat either
Should have seen the regen light on a few times before it got to level 5

The pressure sensors on the DPF are what tells the ECU how much soot load is inside
the inlet temperature sensor regulates how much extra fuel is ran thru the reformer to generate the heat

I had one unit that the fuel pump failed on the reformer -- there were no codes , except elevated soot level codes -- new fuel pump and reset the codes -- all was good

 

[Yotekiller]

And that goes for a city-town pickup too. Fortunately most of our driving is county/state highway for 3/4 of the way. I'm not sure the newer rig would regen in that time? I don't expect to have to find out.

yeah, I will not buy a newer diesel truck anymore either. Done with those, too. I can get by with a gasser 3/4 ton these days. If I still had a need for a diesel, I’d have another 7.3 or 5.9, before the emissions junk took over.

 

[JRHill]

yeah, I will not buy a newer diesel truck anymore either. Done with those, too. I can get by with a gasser 3/4 ton these days. If I still had a need for a diesel, I’d have another 7.3 or 5.9, before the emissions junk took over.

Yup. I had a 1T 1996 16 valve and I think there was some kind of 'thingy' that could be called environmental. Come to think of it, I must be thinking of the condensation drain on the A/C. To bad it had an automatic trans but that's a whole different conversation.

 

[HAWD]

Phone call started at 9 am on the button. I did not know the GM of M and R Power equipment was adding me into the call with the Field Service Rep, John.
He basically started with the conversation he originally had with the manager Nick at M and R.
He referenced a bulletin that stated without codes it would not fall under warranty.
I asked if the dealership could have deleted codes... he said that was impossible that they can clear them, but they still show up in the history.
I asked what was the cause of the failure, which he could not fully answer.
He said there were 12 "Burner Codes, including Reformer AV Formality Sensor"
He then said that replacing the Kit (Reformer, DPF Muffler Assembly and Sensors) solved the problem. He then clarified that they did not replace the reformer but the DPF Muffler and Sensors. When I questioned why the sensors were replaced he said the because they get hot and rusty the threads were damaged. The new reformer does not come with sensors. I questioned wasn't that the responsibility of the tech and he said no.

I again tried to figure out what they deemed the cause and he told me that we never did a REGEN.
Now, I was present for two full regens as well as an additional REGEN that was completed by our good friend that has owned his family repair business for 30 years and helps us cut when we need it.
So I am aware of 3 full regens that were completed, but they said it was seen climbing but never completing.

 

[fried1765]

Phone call started at 9 am on the button. I did not know the GM of M and R Power equipment was adding me into the call with the Field Service Rep, John.
He basically started with the conversation he originally had with the manager Nick at M and R.
He referenced a bulletin that stated without codes it would not fall under warranty.
I asked if the dealership could have deleted codes... he said that was impossible that they can clear them, but they still show up in the history.
I asked what was the cause of the failure, which he could not fully answer.
He said there were 12 "Burner Codes, including Reformer AV Formality Sensor"
He then said that replacing the Kit (Reformer, DPF Muffler Assembly and Sensors) solved the problem. He then clarified that they did not replace the reformer but the DPF Muffler and Sensors. When I questioned why the sensors were replaced he said the because they get hot and rusty the threads were damaged. The new reformer does not come with sensors. I questioned wasn't that the responsibility of the tech and he said no.

I again tried to figure out what they deemed the cause and he told me that we never did a REGEN.
Now, I was present for two full regens as well as an additional REGEN that was completed by our good friend that has owned his family repair business for 30 years and helps us cut when we need it.
So I am aware of 3 full regens that were completed, but they said it was seen climbing but never completing.

A typical "he said,....she said".
Now what to do?
What did the GM have to say about the $5,700 (unauthorized) repair bill?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I know too late but you should have recorded the conversation AND get everything as Texts or Emails in the future. A simple 'I'm busy right now, please text me the info,I'll get back to you later, when I read it over....' is simple and polite.
You're in a losing battle as dealer KNOWS it'll cost you 10s of 1,000s to hire a lawyer and drag this into court. From older posts, it was the previous owner /dealer that did the work ? If so , new guy may NOT be accountable for the work ? All depends on what HE signed when HE bought the business.
I assume the dealer has the tractor , so a 'mechanic's lien' is attached to it ?
Gets even worse ... If the tractor was taken in by your late father for service(whose name is on the service invoice...), it's now up to the 'estate' to deal with. Sadly THAT opens up another huge can of worms.
Nobody should have to go through this mess and I don't understand why Kubota isn't 'manning up' doing you 'right'. In the meantime, get the name + mailing address of the Head of Kubota, Japan. Prepare a one page letter about the situation. Do NOT tell dealer or local Kubota people though. If after 30 days nothing is done...send the letter. Going to the top will get you the response you deserve, BTDT.

 

[SDT]

I know too late but you should have recorded the conversation AND get everything as Texts or Emails in the future. A simple 'I'm busy right now, please text me the info,I'll get back to you later, when I read it over....' is simple and polite.
You're in a losing battle as dealer KNOWS it'll cost you 10s of 1,000s to hire a lawyer and drag this into court. From older posts, it was the previous owner /dealer that did the work ? If so , new guy may NOT be accountable for the work ? All depends on what HE signed when HE bought the business.
I assume the dealer has the tractor , so a 'mechanic's lien' is attached to it ?
Gets even worse ... If the tractor was taken in by your late father for service(whose name is on the service invoice...), it's now up to the 'estate' to deal with. Sadly THAT opens up another huge can of worms.
Nobody should have to go through this mess and I don't understand why Kubota isn't 'manning up' doing you 'right'. In the meantime, get the name + mailing address of the Head of Kubota, Japan. Prepare a one page letter about the situation. Do NOT tell dealer or local Kubota people though. If after 30 days nothing is done...send the letter. Going to the top will get you the response you deserve, BTDT.

No. Dealer has not changed hands but service manager, techs, etc., have left.

Tractor was taken to dealer by OP after her father passed away.

Still, legal remedy is not realistic in this case.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Well after 5 pages of info it has become a tad 'confusing' but yeesh, the dealer should just make the family whole again, and create a lot of 'goodwill' by doing so. This IS an easy decision. I can't understand why he just doesn't do the right, moral thing. Apologize, rip up the invoice and shake hands.
I don't know where it is, sales info, etc. but have to think at least a million buck business ? $6K is 'coffee change'.