B6100 front loader hydraulic pump

[dave86]

In 1980 I put a front loader attachment kit on my B6100. It still works but has lost its oomph. I would like to replace the hydraulic pump. How do I find one that matches the application?

 

[Fedup]

I don't know how others would do it, but personally, I would start by identifying the existing pump by size, style, and dimensions. Is it a two bolt mount? What size flange? Most two bolt pumps would be A flange or B flange. A flange has 3 1/4" pilot bore with 4 3/16" bolt spacing. B flange has 4" bore with 5 3/4" bolt spacing. Is your pump one of those? Maybe, maybe not. Then comes shaft size/style. Round shaft with straight cut keyway or maybe a splined shaft? Then inlet/outlet port size/style. ORB fittings, pipe thread, bolt on flange type, etc. Pump volume requirement and of course shaft rotation direction.

Plenty of stuff out there to choose from if you know what you're looking for. Sometimes the pumps can be identified by manufacturer and have certain I.D. numbers stamped into the mounting flange somewhere. If you find that it might help.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

hmm 'front loader attachment kit' .....
WHAT does the manual for it say is the required PSI and GPM ?
You'll need to KNOW that before replacing the existing pump.
'lost it's oomph'...
have you checked the PSI of the system ?
if it's within spec, check cylinders for leakthrough,,maybe spool valve is worn ??

seems wrong to replace a perfectly good pump, even though it might only cost $225.

 

[TheOldHokie]

In 1980 I put a front loader attachment kit on my B6100. It still works but has lost its oomph. I would like to replace the hydraulic pump. How do I find one that matches the application?

1. It must be CCW rotation
2. It should be roughly .8 to 1.0 CID displacement
3. The mounting flange.and shaft should match the old pump.

Thats about it. You can purchase a new gear pump replacement forrj about $150. As others said purchase a pressure gauge and verify the pump output pressure is in fact low before replacing it.

Post a picture or two of the old pump and I might have more specific comments.

Dan

 

[dave86]

hmm 'front loader attachment kit' .....
WHAT does the manual for it say is the required PSI and GPM ?
You'll need to KNOW that before replacing the existing pump.
'lost it's oomph'...
have you checked the PSI of the system ?
if it's within spec, check cylinders for leakthrough,,maybe spool valve is worn ??

seems wrong to replace a perfectly good pump, even though it might only cost $225.

Thanks for the thorough reply.

The front loader came as a pile of parts and a bag of bolts. No instructions.

Where can I find a manual?

I have no idea how to check cylinders for leakthrough or wear in a spool valve.

A gauge seems like a good place to start.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks for the thorough reply.

The front loader came as a pile of parts and a bag of bolts. No instructions.

Where can I find a manual?

I have no idea how to check cylinders for leakthrough or wear in a spool valve.

A gauge seems like a good place to start.

Pictures of the current pump and mounting scheme for reference please.

Its a small loader and a 7-10 GPM pump is going to be typical. Flow rate simply determines lift speed. (cycle time) on the loader. You can easily calculate that number and match or alter current speed using the sizes of the cylinder

Loss of power could be weak pump, leaking cylinders or a relief valve but not likely the control valve itself.

The place to start is a pressure test on the pump to establish its working properly and then move out from there in stages to isolate and test the other components as indicated.

You need to research where and how to properly connect that gauge to do that without accidentally over pressuring and damaging things.

The simplest thing would be to put the gauge on one of the 4 cylinder ports on the valve. Move the control valve handle to send oil to the gauge and hold it there until the pressure stabilizes. If pressure is good the pump and relief in the control valve are in good shape. If not either the pump is worn or the relief is weak or leaking.

Dan

 

[dave86]

Pictures of the current pump and mounting scheme for reference please.

Its a small loader and a 7-10 GPM pump is going to be typical. Flow rate simply determines lift speed. (cycle time) on the loader. You can easily calculate that number and match or alter current speed using the sizes of the cylinder

Loss of power could be weak pump, leaking cylinders or a relief valve but not likely the control valve itself.

The place to start is a pressure test on the pump to establish its working properly and then move out from there in stages to isolate and test the other components as indicated.

You need to research where and how to properly connect that gauge to do that without accidentally over pressuring and damaging things.

The simplest thing would be to put the gauge on one of the 4 cylinder ports on the valve. Move the control valve handle to send oil to the gauge and hold it there until the pressure stabilizes. If pressure is good the pump and relief in the control valve are in good shape. If not either the pump is worn or the relief is weak or leaking.

Dan

Thank you. I appreciate your knowledge.
It seems that it is a B219 loader. The OEM pump is discontinued. There is one out there listed for $1300. There is a spool valve listed for $800. Cylinder packing is much more reasonable.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thank you. I appreciate your knowledge.
It seems that it is a B219 loader. The OEM pump is discontinued. There is one out there listed for $1300. There is a spool valve listed for $800. Cylinder packing is much more reasonable.

Insane prices. You can put a new valve AND pump on that loader for less than $500.

Before you do anything get a handle on the pressure you are getting with the current pump. Cost you about $50 bucks for a gauge and the plumbing bits to hook it in. Money well spent for this and future use!!!

Dan

 

[Donystoy]

Another thread regarding similar situation.

B6100 front end loader hydraulics

I picked up a b6100 a week or so ago and want to add a front end loader on it. I plan to build it myself and have a few questions. Number one is what kind of lift capacities an I expect? Second is do will the pump off the back of the injection pump run a loader? No need to be fast but need it to...

www.orangetractortalks.com

Since the pump appears to be attached to the front of the crankshaft a generic pump should be able to be retro fitted.

 

[dave86]

Insane prices. You can put a new valve AND pump on that loader for less than $500.

Before you do anything get a handle on the pressure you are getting with the current pump. Cost you about $50 bucks for a gauge and the plumbing bits to hook it in. Money well spent for this and future use!!!

Dan

Thanks, gauge will be the first go.

Any recommended sources for pumps and spools?

It seems that the spool should be rebuildable.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks, gauge will be the first go.

Any recommended sources for pumps and spools?

It seems that the spool should be rebuildable.

Spool valves and gear pumps are not generally rebuildable. When they die you replace them.

Your loader valve is two handle operation. You can replacce it with the same thing for $189:

Monoblock Hydraulic Directional Control Valve, 2 Spool w/ Single Float Detent, 11 GPM

This Monoblock Hydraulic Directional Control Valve uses 1 Float & 1 "A" Spool. It has a capacity of 11 GPM. Free Shipping

summit-hydraulics.com

Or for $60 more you can upgrade it to a joystick. I think thats a no brainer:

Hydraulic Directional Control Valve for Tractor Loader w/ Joystick, 2 Spool (Single Float Spool Optional), 11 GPM

FREE SHIPPING This Monoblock Hydraulic Directional Control Valve uses a Joystick, 2 Spools and has a capacity of 11 GPM. These valves are used to start and stop fluid flow into hydraulic cylinders or hydraulic motors.

summit-hydraulics.com

I have put something close to a hundred of these pumps on various tractors and they are the first place I look. This one will give you 7 GPM @ 2000 RPM and should bolt right up. You can go bigger or smaller for the same price. You will also probably need to replace the pump half of the chain coupler with one that matches the 5/8" shaft on these pumps - another $15.

0.85 cu in Dynamic GPF2014PA Hydraulic Pump | Gear Pumps | Hydraulic Pumps | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

0.85 cu in Dynamic GPF2014PA Hydraulic Pump, Gear Pumps, 0.85 cu in DYNAMIC GPF2014PA HYD PUMP, 0.85 cu in DYNAMIC GPF2014PA HYD PUMP Brand new,Dynamic,GP-F20-14-PA ,

www.surpluscenter.com

One last thought. I dont think that loader had a hydraulic filter and if not I would definitly add one.

Dan

 

[dave86]

Spool valves and gear pumps are not generally rebuildable. When they die you replace them.

Your loader valve is two handle operation. You can replacce it with the same thing for $189:

Monoblock Hydraulic Directional Control Valve, 2 Spool w/ Single Float Detent, 11 GPM

This Monoblock Hydraulic Directional Control Valve uses 1 Float & 1 "A" Spool. It has a capacity of 11 GPM. Free Shipping

summit-hydraulics.com

Or for $60 more you can upgrade it to a joystick. I think thats a no brainer:

Hydraulic Directional Control Valve for Tractor Loader w/ Joystick, 2 Spool (Single Float Spool Optional), 11 GPM

FREE SHIPPING This Monoblock Hydraulic Directional Control Valve uses a Joystick, 2 Spools and has a capacity of 11 GPM. These valves are used to start and stop fluid flow into hydraulic cylinders or hydraulic motors.

summit-hydraulics.com

I have put something close to a hundred of these pumps on various tractors and they are the first place I look. This one will give you 7 GPM @ 2000 RPM and should bolt right up. You can go bigger or smaller for the same price. You will also probably need to replace the pump half of the chain coupler with one that matches the 5/8" shaft on these pumps - another $15.

0.85 cu in Dynamic GPF2014PA Hydraulic Pump | Gear Pumps | Hydraulic Pumps | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

0.85 cu in Dynamic GPF2014PA Hydraulic Pump, Gear Pumps, 0.85 cu in DYNAMIC GPF2014PA HYD PUMP, 0.85 cu in DYNAMIC GPF2014PA HYD PUMP Brand new,Dynamic,GP-F20-14-PA ,

www.surpluscenter.com

One last thought. I dont think that loader had a hydraulic filter and if not I would definitly add one.

Dan

This is great. Thanks.

 

[TheOldHokie]

This is great. Thanks.

Measure the length of the old pump - face of flange to end of the pump. There is not a lot of clearance in that hole and thats going to be important when selecting a replacement pump. The bigger the pump is the longer it is.

Dan

 

[Donystoy]

Pictures of the current pump and mounting scheme for reference please.

Its a small loader and a 7-10 GPM pump is going to be typical. Flow rate simply determines lift speed. (cycle time) on the loader. You can easily calculate that number and match or alter current speed using the sizes of the cylinder

Loss of power could be weak pump, leaking cylinders or a relief valve but not likely the control valve itself.

The place to start is a pressure test on the pump to establish its working properly and then move out from there in stages to isolate and test the other components as indicated.

You need to research where and how to properly connect that gauge to do that without accidentally over pressuring and damaging things.

The simplest thing would be to put the gauge on one of the 4 cylinder ports on the valve. Move the control valve handle to send oil to the gauge and hold it there until the pressure stabilizes. If pressure is good the pump and relief in the control valve are in good shape. If not either the pump is worn or the relief is weak or leaking.

Dan

Dan, Just wondering if 7 gpm is going to be too much or not. My b7200 had a 4 gpm pump which operated the loader and the 3ph. Am I missing something.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

curious, I googled 'kubota b219' and 1st hit was the manual, at www.kubotabooks.com.

you should download that as it should be full of 'neat information'....

 

[TheOldHokie]

curious, I googled 'kubota b219' and 1st hit was the manual, at www.kubotabooks.com.

you should download that as it should be full of 'neat information'....

Its not.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

Dan, Just wondering if 7 gpm is going to be too much or not. My b7200 had a 4 gpm pump which operated the loader and the 3ph. Am I missing something.

Thats an excellent question.

My B7200 with 4 GPM pump runs the B1630 loader and 3PH fine but it could be a bit faster. The cylinders on the B1630 are 1.5" bore and his loader has 2" bore cylinders so his is going to need about 75% higher flow. That gets us pretty close to 7 GPM.

I had not done the arithmetic until you asked and I was a little surprised by the result. Like you I thought 7 GPM might be on the high side but it seems not.

Dan

 

[Donystoy]

Thats an excellent question.

My B7200 with 4 GPM pump runs the B1630 loader and 3PH fine but it could be a bit faster. The cylinders on the B1630 are 1.5" bore and his loader has 2" bore cylinders so his is going to need about 75% higher flow. That gets us pretty close to 7 GPM.

I had not done the arithmetic until you asked and I was a little surprised by the result. Like you I thought 7 GPM might be on the high side but it seems not.

Dan

Thanks Dan, my b7200hst had a KMW loader on it and from my memory also had 1.5" bore cylinders. I agree that it could have been faster but adequate.
I was thinking I was missing something as when I converted my BH77 on my new LX2610 to its own pto pump I thought a 10-11 gpm pump would work. This is because the woods 650 bh that I had on the b7200 had a 6 gpm pump. The b7200 had a high speed option on the pto that I always used which gave me the equivalent of over 10 gpm and ran the hoe great. I thought that since the BH77 was a larger hoe and had slightly larger cylinders than the Woods 650 that it would work fine and if anything would be slightly slower. When I tried it temporarily with the 11 gpm pump from my log splitter, it was super-fast with no power. I could have swatted a fly with the bucket. I put a 6.8 gpm pump on it and it now has a very workable speed. Twice as fast as the anemic speed from the power beyond of the LX2610.
My apologies for getting away from the O/Ps original topic.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks Dan, my b7200hst had a KMW loader on it and from my memory also had 1.5" bore cylinders. I agree that it could have been faster but adequate.
I was thinking I was missing something as when I converted my BH77 on my new LX2610 to its own pto pump I thought a 10-11 gpm pump would work. This is because the woods 650 bh that I had on the b7200 had a 6 gpm pump. The b7200 had a high speed option on the pto that I always used which gave me the equivalent of over 10 gpm and ran the hoe great. I thought that since the BH77 was a larger hoe and had slightly larger cylinders than the Woods 650 that it would work fine and if anything would be slightly slower. When I tried it temporarily with the 11 gpm pump from my log splitter, it was super-fast with no power. I could have swatted a fly with the bucket. I put a 6.8 gpm pump on it and it now has a very workable speed. Twice as fast as the anemic speed from the power beyond of the LX2610.
My apologies for getting away from the O/Ps original topic.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Afraid I dont follow the logic. Same pump at same speed on larger cylinders can not run faster or with less power.

Dan