Propane question?

Stmar

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May 23, 2017
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Getting a new GE gas kitchen range. Called Home Depot local store and also their hotline to make sure they would convert it to Propane and was assured by each that they would take care of it. Got my paperwork, my responsibility list for delivery, and it clearly states in a couple of places that the installer will not hook up or convert to propane. I can do the conversion, kit comes with stove. Stove I am replacing is about 25 years old and most documentation says to replace the gas feed hose when installing a new unit. I assume I will get a credit for install and parts that I paid for, learned that you can't us a natural gas hose with propane, completely different animals. Anybody have a similar experience or suggestions?
 

Stmar

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Thanks, that explains a lot. I knew a bit and was curious if the old line would be adequate but it probably deteriorates with time, especially with propane. May just get our propane guys to do the complete hook up and conversion just to be safe.
 

fried1765

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Thanks, that explains a lot. I knew a bit and was curious if the old line would be adequate but it probably deteriorates with time, especially with propane. May just get our propane guys to do the complete hook up and conversion just to be safe.
Sure hope your "propane guys are better than the ones who installed my Nova Scotia water heater.
"licensed" ..... apparently meant nothing.
 
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Flintknapper

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Sure hope your "propane guys are better than the ones who installed my Nova Scotia water heater.
"licensed" ..... apparently meant nothing.
^^^^^

Sadly this is true in some cases.

Licensed for the most part only means the person was able to pass certain 'tests'.

It doesn't speak to their competency overall, their ability/willingness to do a job well, their honesty or a host of other things.

We would hope any given field would weed out the bad ones but as you have discovered....that isn't necessarily the case.
 
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Donystoy

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I have been retired for some time but up here a gas fitter license includes both natural gas and propane. On an installation like that you would always replace the flex connector with a new one. Never heard of any difference between flex connectors for NG vs LP. The maximum pressure seen by these connectors should be no more than 2 psi (LP). This is in the house after the outside regulator. The appliance regulator lowers it even more. I would certainly recommend finding a licensed gas fitter for the installation.
 
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chim

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^^^^^

Sadly this is true in some cases.

Licensed for the most part only means the person was able to pass certain 'tests'.

It doesn't speak to their competency overall, their ability/willingness to do a job well, their honesty or a host of other things.

We would hope any given field would weed out the bad ones but as you have discovered....that isn't necessarily the case.
There's a bell curve for every vocation but some people don't want to realize it. Whether it's baggers at the supermarket or brain surgeons. Wifey recently had successful cataract surgery. A large part of the success was due to her research.
 

fried1765

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There's a bell curve for every vocation but some people don't want to realize it. Whether it's baggers at the supermarket or brain surgeons. Wifey recently had successful cataract surgery. A large part of the success was due to her research.
Dats da problem!
 

DustyRusty

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As a homeowner, you can usually do your own work, however, that requires that you follow the code and do it properly. I installed my own gas range a few years ago. When we built the home 34 years ago the code allowed for using soft copper tubing for propane inside of the residence. Today the code is all iron pipe, so I removed all the existing copper tubing and installed new black iron piping according to the current day code. The only thing that I couldn't find at the local plumbing supply store was the short pipe that is used to connect 2 pipes together. It is about 12" long and has both a left and right handed threads on the end, and a left handed by right handed threaded coupling on one end. This pipe is used in place of a union. Since the plumbing supply parts person told me that the plumbers were still using unions, I used a union also.
The same with electrical. When we put an addition onto the home, it required moving the electrical service entrance. At the time we also installed a whole house generator and automatic transfer switch. This required a service disconnect in front of the transfer switch and after the meter. Code required that the original panel have all the grounds and neutrals separated. I shut off the power, and using a bright battery powered work lamp, I removed the bonding screw, installed a new isolated ground bar, and moved all the bare copper wires over to the new ground bar. I also had to replace the grounding wire and pull a #4 copper ground wire through all the ground rods on the electrical system and take that uninterrupted wire to a grounding lug on the steel well casing. The electrical inspection was done and passed. I don't believe in taking short cuts with electrical, gas, water, or sewer.
 
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fried1765

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As a homeowner, you can usually do your own work, however, that requires that you follow the code and do it properly. I installed my own gas range a few years ago. When we built the home 34 years ago the code allowed for using soft copper tubing for propane inside of the residence. Today the code is all iron pipe, so I removed all the existing copper tubing and installed new black iron piping according to the current day code. The only thing that I couldn't find at the local plumbing supply store was the short pipe that is used to connect 2 pipes together. It is about 12" long and has both a left and right handed threads on the end, and a left handed by right handed threaded coupling on one end. This pipe is used in place of a union. Since the plumbing supply parts person told me that the plumbers were still using unions, I used a union also.
The same with electrical. When we put an addition onto the home, it required moving the electrical service entrance. At the time we also installed a whole house generator and automatic transfer switch. This required a service disconnect in front of the transfer switch and after the meter. Code required that the original panel have all the grounds and neutrals separated. I shut off the power, and using a bright battery powered work lamp, I removed the bonding screw, installed a new isolated ground bar, and moved all the bare copper wires over to the new ground bar. I also had to replace the grounding wire and pull a #4 copper ground wire through all the ground rods on the electrical system and take that uninterrupted wire to a grounding lug on the steel well casing. The electrical inspection was done and passed. I don't believe in taking short cuts with electrical, gas, water, or sewer.
So.......how does one connect to a steel well casing, when one has a PVC well casing?
New well?
So many different scenarios.
 
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chim

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So.......how does one connect to a steel well casing, when one has a PVC well casing?
New well?
So many different scenarios.
The NEC has wording to include "metallic", ie: conductive stuff to ground/bond. PVC items are fine. Also grounding is different from bonding.
 
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fried1765

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The NEC has wording to include "metallic", ie: conductive stuff to ground/bond. PVC items are fine. Also grounding is different from bonding.
I learned something today.
I was totally unaware that PVC pipe is conductive!
 

chim

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I learned something today.
I was totally unaware that PVC pipe is conductive!
The NEC has wording to include "metallic", ie: conductive stuff to ground/bond. PVC items are fine. Also grounding is different from bonding.

Sorry I didn't 'splain it better.

All metallic systems need to be grounded or bonded.

PVC, wood, etc are OK to use for whatever the building codes permit. Since they're non-metallic, it should be obvious even to the casual observer they can't be grounded or bonded.
 

lynnmor

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I helped my daughter acquire an old house and then I updated the electrical service. The required inspection for connection had an inspector tell me to run a ground to a short piece of copper plumbing despite the fact that CPVC was on both sides of that piece. The previous owner patched in wherever the copper failed instead of simply replacing considerable amounts that was sure to fail. It is all entertainment and doesn't need to make sense.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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I helped my daughter acquire an old house and then I updated the electrical service. The required inspection for connection had an inspector tell me to run a ground to a short piece of copper plumbing despite the fact that CPVC was on both sides of that piece. The previous owner patched in wherever the copper failed instead of simply replacing considerable amounts that was sure to fail. It is all entertainment and doesn't need to make sense.
Sadly your inspector is an idiot!
Doing that does nothing at all!
Water is not conductive.

Our House is all PEX piping so no grounds.
Gas piping has a bond and my foundation / slab has a UFER (ground) and I have 2 ground rods.
I needed a UFER because my entire house sits on foam, so the slab has no natural ground.
Without a UFER the slab could float electricity witch is really bad!
 
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ejb11235

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What a bizarre article. I read and reread it. Most of it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the gas piping. For example, the author talks about pilot lights and gas control valves, neither of which have to do with the gas line.

And then there's this:
Material compatibility: Although both natural gas and propane fittings are often made of similar materials, such as brass, black iron, and stainless steel, there may be subtle differences in the materials’ composition or coatings to ensure compatibility with the specific fuel type.
Has anybody ever seen a black pipe fitting or pipe that's only good for natural gas but not propane? This is the part of the article most relevant to the title, and yet all we get is "there may be subtle differences".

This reads more like "throw a bunch of irrelevant stuff at the reader so you can tell them to hire a professional."
 
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PoTreeBoy

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What a bizarre article. I read and reread it. Most of it doesn't seem to have anything to do the gas piping. For example, the author talks about pilot lights and gas control valves, neither of which have to do with the gas line.

And then there's this:

Has anybody ever seen a black pipe fitting or pipe that's only good for natural gas but not propane? This is the part of the article most relevant to the title, and yet all we get is "there may be subtle differences".

This reads more like "throw a bunch of irrelevant stuff at the reader so you can tell them to hire a professional."
I agree with your assessment.
 
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