Hydraulic Top N Tilt. Float valve or no float?

[joea]

When I hooked up the TnT for my B21 I got a two spool monoblock without detent/float.

Some have suggested I should have a detent/float for both the top cylinder and the side cylinder to aid making a smooth level finish.

I am considering changing the valve, or getting the detent and spool for this valve. Same valve, same supplier.

The top link I can see value in having a float, but not so much for the tilt. Given the difference in costs between a single float and two floating spools, is there a real reason to floaf the tilt?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

It all depends on what you are doing. In over 50 years of operating tractors, not 1 single time have I ever needed to float the top link. Now anytime that I have finish grading-smoothing to do, I float the side link. So for me, many many times for the side link vs 0 times for the top link.

If you do any grading or even maintaining of a drive, I would think that you could benefit from having the float feature.

Is it worth not getting (saving around $50?) and then you have a place that would benefit from having it and you don't have it?

Is the float feature required, of course not. But when the circumstances are right, it sure can be a benefit.

Just my opinion.

 

[joea]

It all depends on what you are doing. In over 50 years of operating tractors, not 1 single time have I ever needed to float the top link. Now anytime that I have finish grading-smoothing to do, I float the side link. So for me, many many times for the side link vs 0 times for the top link.

If you do any grading or even maintaining of a drive, I would think that you could benefit from having the float feature.

Is it worth not getting (saving around $50?) and then you have a place that would benefit from having it and you don't have it?

Is the float feature required, of course not. But when the circumstances are right, it sure can be a benefit.

Just my opinion.

More like $100 difference in this case. Since I have been "overspending" lately my conscience is bothering me. OK, my cheapskate side is showing. No, it really won't damage me, but, eh, I'm frugal.

Mainly I am maintaining a shared private road and improving the drainage, making swales and improving drain paths. Using box blade/scraper and rock rake, mainly.

But now I'm also trying to level and clean up some very rocky mixed soil which is proving to be a problem due to the variety of rock sizes that keep being discovered. That is where the float feature started being mentioned.

This is all my own property, not doing it commercially. Given my demonstrated ability, or lack, I'd go broke quickly.

I guess I just need to lay back, relax and try to envision how float actually would work for me.

 

[Henro]

More like $100 difference in this case. Since I have been "overspending" lately my conscience is bothering me. OK, my cheapskate side is showing. No, it really won't damage me, but, eh, I'm frugal.

Mainly I am maintaining a shared private road and improving the drainage, making swales and improving drain paths. Using box blade/scraper and rock rake, mainly.

But now I'm also trying to level and clean up some very rocky mixed soil which is proving to be a problem due to the variety of rock sizes that keep being discovered. That is where the float feature started being mentioned.

This is all my own property, not doing it commercially. Given my demonstrated ability, or lack, I'd go broke quickly.

I guess I just need to lay back, relax and try to envision how float actually would work for me.

20 years ago I put four remotes on my B2910. Three of them have built in pilot operated check valves and one has float.

I have never needed more than three valves, and the only reason I need three is because I used two tilt cylinders in order to get a little more lift out of my three point hitch, while maintaining a maximum amount of tilt.

I find float on one tilt cylinder very useful when plowing snow or raking my driveway which has off camber areas. With tilt the rear blade or rake will follow the change in road surface angle.

Pilot operated check valves are great because they essentially lock a cylinder in place. You can’t have power operated check valves and float at the same time, they are mutually exclusive.

The problem with the float valve in my case is that it’s the nature of the beast that a control valve will allow the cylinder to leak down overtime. This does not happen with pilot operated check valves.

So if you have float on your tilt cylinder, and you’re doing something where you would like the tilt cylinder to maintain a fixed length, rather than changing length over time, you might not like having float on the tilt cylinder. For example, if you’re using a rotary cutter and desire to have it hold position, so you get an even cut. You might find that the side with the tilt cylinder, tied to the control valve with float, leaks down overtime. Of course this would probably happen anyway, whether you had float or not, if you don’t have the pilot operated check function. But this is not really an issue because you can swap the cylinders with the valves and put the float valve on the top link.

I guess what I’m thinking is that you need to ask yourself what’s more important: Holding cylinder length constant or having the ability for it to adjust length, according to the forces acting on it?

Personally, I’m a fan of having one or the other as compared to having a standard valve, which doesn’t float and also to some degree leaks down over time. I’m happy with my solution of using valves that have either float or pilot operated check valves built into them. I do find float on the tilt cylinder beneficial.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

More like $100 difference in this case. Since I have been "overspending" lately my conscience is bothering me. OK, my cheapskate side is showing. No, it really won't damage me, but, eh, I'm frugal.

Mainly I am maintaining a shared private road and improving the drainage, making swales and improving drain paths. Using box blade/scraper and rock rake, mainly.

But now I'm also trying to level and clean up some very rocky mixed soil which is proving to be a problem due to the variety of rock sizes that keep being discovered. That is where the float feature started being mentioned.

This is all my own property, not doing it commercially. Given my demonstrated ability, or lack, I'd go broke quickly.

I guess I just need to lay back, relax and try to envision how float actually would work for me.

I'm guessing that it is $100 because you have already purchased valves without the float feature, so now you are having to purchase completely new valves?

Just want to understand your situation. Because it does not cost $100 more between a std 3 position valve and a 4 position valve that has the float feature incorporated.
Anyway none of the valves that I am aware of.

 

[Gaspasser]

I have one rear remote ( kubota dealer installed) and would like to get a top and tilt kit for my L6060 cat 2 3pt. So three part question. 1) Do I need to have a second remote installed or is their a device that can switch between the top and tilt function that connects to the one remote? 2) if I need a second remote, is this something I can install myself ( fairly mechanically inclined; have done brakes, small engine repair, etc)? What kit would you recommend; should I just duplicate the one already installed)? 3) Which top and tilt kit would you recommend? I see the names Fitrite and Summit Hydraulic here when reading about this on the forum. To the best of my recollection, the 1st remote kit installed by the dealer cost about $1500 installed. Thanks as always.

 

[joea]

I'm guessing that it is $100 because you have already purchased valves without the float feature, so now you are having to purchase completely new valves?

Just want to understand your situation. Because it does not cost $100 more between a std 3 position valve and a 4 position valve that has the float feature incorporated.
Anyway none of the valves that I am aware of.

I can purchase a new 2 position valve (summit hydraulics) with float on one or both spools. I can also purchase a 2 detents and 2 float spools, but ends up costing about the same either way, About $250. The $100 is roughly the difference between 1 spool float, 1 not, and both float.

Space limits me to a 2 spool there and have no need for more anyway.

 

[Lopez69]

Anyone put a hydraulic top link on kubota b26?

 

[joea]

Anyone put a hydraulic top link on kubota b26?

I installed one, actually the side link too, as a kit from Kubota, on a B21, it should be essentially the same., as the 3pt parts are identical. May have been one of the last in the system. Got if from Messicks. Can look up the Whole Goods number if you like. Actually made by woods/gannon. I don't know if they sell them privately.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I can purchase a new 2 position valve (summit hydraulics) with float on one or both spools. I can also purchase a 2 detents and 2 float spools, but ends up costing about the same either way, About $250. The $100 is roughly the difference between 1 spool float, 1 not, and both float.

Space limits me to a 2 spool there and have no need for more anyway.

Not that it matters, but looking at Summit a double float is $224 and a single float and a std 3position valve is $190. I must not be looking at what you are looking at and if you decide to get the Summit valves, be prepared for excessive internal leakage.
If you want a float featured valve, you should be looking at better quality valves.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I have one rear remote ( kubota dealer installed) and would like to get a top and tilt kit for my L6060 cat 2 3pt. So three part question. 1) Do I need to have a second remote installed or is their a device that can switch between the top and tilt function that connects to the one remote? 2) if I need a second remote, is this something I can install myself ( fairly mechanically inclined; have done brakes, small engine repair, etc)? What kit would you recommend; should I just duplicate the one already installed)? 3) Which top and tilt kit would you recommend? I see the names Fitrite and Summit Hydraulic here when reading about this on the forum. To the best of my recollection, the 1st remote kit installed by the dealer cost about $1500 installed. Thanks as always.

Something like this is all you need. This guy went from having a single factory set of couplers to having 3 sets, all controlled from the OEM control lever with a 2 switch pistol grip control grip mounted on the OEM rear remote lever.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Anyone put a hydraulic top link on kubota b26?

An 18"-26" working length works well for the B series tractors.

 

[joea]

Anyone put a hydraulic top link on kubota b26?

I should have said this right off, rather than answer, but please start your own thread on this question. It gets messy when there are different threads under one topic.

Thanks.

 

[joea]

Not that it matters, but looking at Summit a double float is $224 and a single float and a std 3position valve is $190. I must not be looking at what you are looking at and if you decide to get the Summit valves, be prepared for excessive internal leakage.
If you want a float featured valve, you should be looking at better quality valves.

can you expand on that? What does "excessive internal leakage" manifest as? The non float valve seems find, so far.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

....I used two tilt cylinders in order to get a little more lift out of my three point hitch, while maintaining a maximum amount of tilt....

Having a tiny BX I really like the idea of dual tilt cylinders with non-piloted valves for running a flail mower in rough terrain, and dual tilt cylinders with piloted valves otherwise...I would assume that's as simple as putting some quick-disconnects on a piloted valve block and plumbing it in or out as needed. (As currently planned I'll have 1 cylinder with 2" of travel total, 13" to 15".)

As my rear Top&Tilt remote hydraulic kit came in late last week (Landpride, and sits on my shelf) and cylinders (Summit) & flail mower (Woodmaxx) aren't here yet that'll all have to wait for experience to dictate need...but thanks for the food for thought!

 

[MtnViewRanch]

can you expand on that? What does "excessive internal leakage" manifest as? The non float valve seems find, so far.

The rod extends on its own fast enough so that it is a nuisance to keep an eye on it and continually readjust. For some people, to ever have to make a correction is too often, not realistic, but still too often.

If you want-need the valve to provide more than a locked position, some rod drifting has to be acceptable.
The acceptable rate varies from person to person and what task it is that is being done.
My thinking is once an hour is acceptable. Most people that complain about this are having to make corrective adjustments every 5-15 minutes and that would indeed be a PITA.

 

[joea]

The rod extends on its own fast enough so that it is a nuisance to keep an eye on it and continually readjust. For some people, to ever have to make a correction is too often, not realistic, but still too often.

If you want-need the valve to provide more than a locked position, some rod drifting has to be acceptable.
The acceptable rate varies from person to person and what task it is that is being done.
My thinking is once an hour is acceptable. Most people that complain about this are having to make corrective adjustments every 5-15 minutes and that would indeed be a PITA.

Guess I'm still not following.

You're not saying they will "move out of float" are you? But that in "not float, not detent" the cylinder rod will "drift" as it encounters reality while going about your business? And that is due to "leaky spools", more or less?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Guess I'm still not following.

You're not saying they will "move out of float" are you? But that in "not float, not detent" the cylinder rod will "drift" as it encounters reality while going about your business? And that is due to "leaky spools", more or less?

Spool leakage allows the cylinder to move by itself during operation. For example if you raise the 3pt and leave it does it stay up or does it drop on its own. If you dont have that problem now you dont have excessive spool leakage.

Dan

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Guess I'm still not following.

You're not saying they will "move out of float" are you? But that in "not float, not detent" the cylinder rod will "drift" as it encounters reality while going about your business? And that is due to "leaky spools", more or less?

When the valve is in the neutral (closed) position and the rod moves in or out on its own, (typically out), that is caused by internal valve leakage. How fast the rod ends up moving either way ends up being the issue. If it moves an inch in 5 minutes, that is a "real big" problem.

My thinking is that a 1/4" movement over an hour of time is acceptable. Different rates of movement are acceptable for different people.

My 75hp tractor with factory (Bucher) rear remotes will extend 5/32" in 1 hour holding a 1000lb box blade.
My smaller tractor with a factory rear remote (make of valve is unknow) extends 5/8" in an hour holding an 800lb box blade.
On my small tractor, that 5/8" extension is not an issue for me and I just live with it.
Some people would be extremely upset about it, but it does not bother me when I am operating the machine, so I just live with it.

 

[TheOldHokie]

When the valve is in the neutral (closed) position and the rod moves in or out on its own, (typically out), that is caused by internal valve leakage. How fast the rod ends up moving either way ends up being the issue. If it moves an inch in 5 minutes, that is a "real big" problem.

My thinking is that a 1/4" movement over an hour of time is acceptable. Different rates of movement are acceptable for different people.

My 75hp tractor with factory (Bucher) rear remotes will extend 5/32" in 1 hour holding a 1000lb box blade.
My smaller tractor with a factory rear remote (make of valve is unknow) extends 5/8" in an hour holding an 800lb box blade.
On my small tractor, that 5/8" extension is not an issue for me and I just live with it.
Some people would be extremely upset about it, but it does not bother me when I am operating the machine, so I just live with it.

Bucher specifications for spool leakage are .847 cubic inch per minute average, 1.4 cu in per minute max. The arithmetic to compute inches per minute for any given cylinder is pretty simple.

Dan