Kubota L175 starter makes noise when I connect negative battery cable and key is off

[pa1203]

Hello all and thanks in advance for any help you guys can give me.
I have an old kubota L175, not the prettiest but it used to run and cut grass. I changed the battery cables because they had a lot of corrosion and after replacing them, I started having problems.
whenevet I try to connect the negative battery cable, starter makes noises as if it wants to start but it doesn’t and while it’s making noises the key is off so the switch is closed. What could cause this? Did I make a mistake when I reconnected all the wires?
Thanks in advance

 

[Russell King]

Does your tractor have the separate key switch and then a glow plug/starter switch?

Originally there were two separate switches and the key switch was really to control the lights and provide the on/off switch for the electrical power. The second switch was normally in the center position and did not provide power to anything until it was turned counter clock wise (glow plugs) or clockwise (starter).

There is also a safety switch on the clutch that won’t put power to the solenoid unless the clutch pedal is pressed down.

So the starter should not be getting any power to the solenoid through the switches.

But the starter motor could be getting power if the starter solenoid is failing or is shorted out somehow.

I would recommend that you remove the starter and take it in to an auto parts store for testing. Take some pictures of the starter wiring before you take it off to make sure you can get it back to how it was before you started.

The electrical system is really simple on the tractor and should be easily repaired or replaced.

Do you have the owners manual or any wiring schematic?

I have a similar vintage L185 and can tell you how it is wired since your‘s is probably the same.

 

[Russell King]

Here is part of the wiring diagram that shows the starter

The positive battery cable and two red wires attach to a large post. One red wire goes to the alternator, the other feeds power to the key switch. A black (with white stripe) attaches to the starter solenoid. It runs to the clutch safety switch, to the start switch and gets power from the red wire on the key switch when the key is on and the starter switch is turned clockwise.

 

[pa1203]

Here is part of the wiring diagram that shows the starter

The positive battery cable and two red wires attach to a large post. One red wire goes to the alternator, the other feeds power to the key switch. A black (with white stripe) attaches to the starter solenoid. It runs to the clutch safety switch, to the start switch and gets power from the red wire on the key switch when the key is on and the starter switch is turned clockwise.
View attachment 130299

Thanks for your reply. My biggest question is why is my battery sparking when I connect the negative battery cable and the starter start making noises. Do you think there’s a short?
By the way, mine has a key switch on the left and a starting/glow plug switch on the right.

 

[pa1203]

Th

Hi Russell the other thing is that previous owner rigged everything and none of the wire colors match. It has no lights and nothing works on the dashboard. Also when I changed battery cables I never took wiring pics. I’m sorry I’m not very mechanically inclined

 

[Russell King]

Hi Russell the other thing is that previous owner rigged everything and none of the wire colors match. It has no lights and nothing works on the dashboard. Also when I changed battery cables I never took wiring pics. I’m sorry I’m not very mechanically inclined

Okay that is not good news but not really that much of a problem. We will just figure out how it is wired and make any corrections needed. You will have to get to above five posts and then you can post pictures that will help out a lot.

Can you understand that wiring diagram enough to see what should be happening regardless of the wire color?

For the large battery cables, the ground (black or bare probably) goes from the battery to the frame of the tractor. The connection point on the tractor is not that important but it should be clean and tight. This is usually the most common problem on electrical circuits on tractors. The positive battery (usually red) goes from the battery plus side directly to a large terminal on the starter. From that same large terminal with the positive battery cable there should be a wire to the alternator plug (we can assume that far end is connected correctly for now). Then a third wire goes to the key switch to provide power to other places when the switch is turned on.

Did the tractor key work properly before you changed anything ? If so, we will assume that it is wired correctly for now. You may have rodent damage underneath the dash that will give trouble so if you can look up under the dash and see if there is any evidence of rodent activity such as a nest or chewed wiring.

I can tell you how to basically hot wire it to eliminate anything but the starter and battery if you feel safe doing it.

I think if it was working before we will assume that it is just something in the way you wired it back. Then move on if needed to solve other problems.

First just start thinking of electricity like water and how water flows through hoses or pipes. The battery is the tank of water that wants to flow downhill to the lower elevation (or lower potential energy point if you want to get fancy). The ground wire creates the lowest point of electricAl energy and is like a hole in the ground that soaks up the water. That way you will start to understand how the electricity is controlled and used.

Leave the ground cable disconnected for now for safety but do confirm that the battery is installed correctly and you are sure positive terminal marked with a plus sign is connected to the starter. And that the negative post marked by the minus sign can be connected to a clean metal part of the tractor frame or engine.

I am near my tractor so will take some pictures of the starter wiring and post them in a few minutes.

 

[Russell King]

Here is a picture of the starter wire connections on my L185 starter. Sorry the tractor is dirty but there are two red wires and the battery cable on the right and a smaller size black wire (with a white stripe) by itself on a spade terminal.

Try to get your starter wired the same if you can figure it out and then connect the battery negative cable and see if it makes a noise or not. Disconnect the ground cable if you hear anything at the starter.

I suspect that you have some of the smaller wires on the wrong starter terminal.

If it still makes any noises then take all the small wires off and move them away from the starter. Just connect the positive cable to the large terminal. Then put the ground cable on the battery. Remove it if you hear anything suspicious from the starter.

Report back what you hear or see. Try to be fairly detailed about what happens so we can evaluate your situation faster and better.

 

[pa1203]

Hi Russell the other thing is that previous owner rigged everything and none of the wire colors match. It has no lights and nothing works on the dashboard. Also when I changed battery cables I never took wiring pics. I’m sorry I’m not very mechanically inclined

Hi Russell the other thing is that previous owner rigged everything and none of the wire colors match. It has no lights and nothing works on the dashboard. Also when I changed battery cables I never took wiring pics. I’m sorry I’m not very mechanically inclined

here are wiring pics

Here is a picture of the starter wire connections on my L185 starter. Sorry the tractor is dirty but there are two red wires and the battery cable on the right and a smaller size black wire (with a white stripe) by itself on a spade terminal.

Try to get your starter wired the same if you can figure it out and then connect the battery negative cable and see if it makes a noise or not. Disconnect the ground cable if you hear anything at the starter.

I suspect that you have some of the smaller wires on the wrong starter terminal.

If it still makes any noises then take all the small wires off and move them away from the starter. Just connect the positive cable to the large terminal. Then put the ground cable on the battery. Remove it if you hear anything suspicious from the starter.

Report back what you hear or see. Try to be fairly detailed about what happens so we can evaluate your situation faster and better.

View attachment 130392

 

[pa1203]

Here is a picture of the starter wire connections on my L185 starter. Sorry the tractor is dirty but there are two red wires and the battery cable on the right and a smaller size black wire (with a white stripe) by itself on a spade terminal.

Try to get your starter wired the same if you can figure it out and then connect the battery negative cable and see if it makes a noise or not. Disconnect the ground cable if you hear anything at the starter.

I suspect that you have some of the smaller wires on the wrong starter terminal.

If it still makes any noises then take all the small wires off and move them away from the starter. Just connect the positive cable to the large terminal. Then put the ground cable on the battery. Remove it if you hear anything suspicious from the starter.

Report back what you hear or see. Try to be fairly detailed about what happens so we can evaluate your situation faster and better.

View attachment 130392

here are wiring pics

hi Russell, by the way, my name is patty,I really appreciate how much detail you’re giving me and your patience with me. Don’t know if you saw the wiring pics I sent you. Your pic shows 3 red wires and 1 tiny white one next to the red ones. My starter only has the 3 red wires. Nothing else is connected to starter.

here are wiring pics

 

[pa1203]

Gosh Russell I don’t even know if I’m responding to your messages the right way. Do I post reply or just respond to your message

 

[pa1203]

Don’t know if you can see the pics I sent you so here they go again. As I explained before there’s only 3 red wires connected to the main post and nothing else. The white/black doesn’t exist in mine. There’s an extra red wire with the spade connector which I’m assuming goes to starter spade terminal. Right now it’s not connected and battery still sparks and starter makes the same noise. I was trying to open the dashboard to inspect wires, see if there are any that have been chewed up but I can’t remove ve the screws on the dashboard. They are really rusty and I don’t have the strength to remove them. I tried wd40 let it sit for a few hours but still can’t unscrew them. Any suggestions?

 

[pa1203]

Don’t know if you can see the pics I sent you so here they go again. As I explained before there’s only 3 red wires connected to the main post and nothing else. The white/black doesn’t exist in mine. There’s an extra red wire with the spade connector which I’m assuming goes to starter spade terminal. Right now it’s not connected and battery still sparks and starter makes the same noise. I was trying to open the dashboard to inspect wires, see if there are any that have been chewed up but I can’t remove ve the screws on the dashboard. They are really rusty and I don’t have the strength to remove them. I tried wd40 let it sit for a few hours but still can’t unscrew them. Any suggestions?

I’m a little confused, are you saying just connect positive battery and remove the other 2 red ones from the main starter terminal?

 

[Russell King]

Gosh Russell I don’t even know if I’m responding to your messages the right way. Do I post reply or just respond to your message

I have seen your pictures and replies. I will REPLY to your post and then just post so you can see the difference.

The way this forum works is when you post I am not notified, if you reply to my post then I get a notification (which is just a simple indication in the upper right hand corner). Either way works since I am aware you need help and I will be looking at this thread anyway.

As you can see the post I replied to is included into my post. Sometimes that is helpful if you are replying to someone directly and answering a question or if the post you are replying to is old or far back in a thread. But if there are a lot of pictures it can become cumbersome.

Also if you reply you should not type inside the beginning or ending quote that are in brackets. That puts your reply inside the copied post and not visible usually. You seem to be replying fine and posting fine.

 

[pa1203]

Also does it matter in which order I connect the 3 red wires(mine are faded) to the starter terminal?

 

[pa1203]

I have seen your pictures and replies. I will REPLY to your post and then just post so you can see the difference.

The way this forum works is when you post I am not notified, if you reply to my post then I get a notification (which is just a simple indication in the upper right hand corner). Either way works since I am aware you need help and I will be looking at this thread anyway.

As you can see the post I replied to is included into my post. Sometimes that is helpful if you are replying to someone directly and answering a question or if the post you are replying to is old or far back in a thread. But if there are a lot of pictures it can become cumbersome.

Also if you reply you should not type inside the beginning or ending quote that are in brackets. That puts your reply inside the copied post and not visible usually. You seem to be replying fine and posting fine.

Ok great! Did you see my last post regarding the order in which the 3 red wires are connected to the terminal?
By the way, I don’t see any notifications on my account. I’ve been going to my post to look at your responses.
Thanks

 

[Russell King]

Don’t know if you can see the pics I sent you so here they go again. As I explained before there’s only 3 red wires connected to the main post and nothing else. The white/black doesn’t exist in mine. There’s an extra red wire with the spade connector which I’m assuming goes to starter spade terminal. Right now it’s not connected and battery still sparks and starter makes the same noise. I was trying to open the dashboard to inspect wires, see if there are any that have been chewed up but I can’t remove ve the screws on the dashboard. They are really rusty and I don’t have the strength to remove them. I tried wd40 let it sit for a few hours but still can’t unscrew them. Any suggestions?

I thought you stated you replaced the battery cables but these pictures don’t show that the positive cable is new or has recently been replaced so I’m a bit confused. But that won’t matter much really.

First the three wires appear to be connected to the starter properly. That connection is really corroded and should probably be cleaned up eventually but wait on that for now.

I too believe that the red wire with the spade type connector should be installed onto the solenoid flat spade connector. The solenoid connector is shown in your pictures.

You also need to answer some of my questions about how the tractor was acting before you did anything to it. That will help me provide assistance if I know how it worked before.

But nothing you show seems incorrect and the starter should not be doing anything especially making any noise. There really shouldn’t be any sparks either.

How significant are the sparks? Just tiny ones or big scary sparks?

What sound did the starter make?

Show pictures of what you did change and also the battery and battery cable connectors at the battery end.

As far as looking under the dash you could just try to take some pictures and see if they show you anything.

Show me a picture of the dash and key switch. Try to show both sides of the dash and anything attached to the dash like a starter switch if your tractor has it still.

I did notice that the alternator is not the original kind since it has spacers to help keep it in place but again that makes no difference if you tell me the tractor has been operating correctly.

I would not change anything right now until you answer some questions and then I can explain what I think is going on. I guess if you want to remove everything from the starter and clean up the connections that would be fine.

For troubleshooting purposes you can remove the wire that goes to the alternator and see if that makes any difference. But it should NOT.

 

[Russell King]

I’m a little confused, are you saying just connect positive battery and remove the other 2 red ones from the main starter terminal?

for troubleshooting this yes you can remove the two wires leaving just the positive batter cable on the starter. Then hook up the negative cable and see if it makes any noise.

 

[Russell King]

Also does it matter in which order I connect the 3 red wires(mine are faded) to the starter terminal?

No it does not matter. They are all at the same potential level so they are floating in the same depth of water if you want to think of it that way. Basically they see the same voltage as the battery and are just extensions of the battery cable in two different directions.

 

[Russell King]

For notifications there should be a bell in the upper right hand corner of the screen. There should be a red dot with a number inside it that indicates how many no you have. Push that and you get a list of the notifications and what they are associated to.

 

[pa1203]

I thought you stated you replaced the battery cables but these pictures don’t show that the positive cable is new or has recently been replaced so I’m a bit confused. But that won’t matter much really.

First the three wires appear to be connected to the starter properly. That connection is really corroded and should probably be cleaned up eventually but wait on that for now.

I too believe that the red wire with the spade type connector should be installed onto the solenoid flat spade connector. The solenoid connector is shown in your pictures.

You also need to answer some of my questions about how the tractor was acting before you did anything to it. That will help me provide assistance if I know how it worked before.

But nothing you show seems incorrect and the starter should not be doing anything especially making any noise. There really shouldn’t be any sparks either.

How significant are the sparks? Just tiny ones or big scary sparks?

What sound did the starter make?

Show pictures of what you did change and also the battery and battery cable connectors at the battery end.

As far as looking under the dash you could just try to take some pictures and see if they show you anything.

Show me a picture of the dash and key switch. Try to show both sides of the dash and anything attached to the dash like a starter switch if your tractor has it still.

I did notice that the alternator is not the original kind since it has spacers to help keep it in place but again that makes no difference if you tell me the tractor has been operating correctly.

I would not change anything right now until you answer some questions and then I can explain what I think is going on. I guess if you want to remove everything from the starter and clean up the connections that would be fine.

For troubleshooting purposes you can remove the wire that goes to the alternator and see if that makes any difference. But it should NOT.

I wasn’t clear sorry, what I did was I removed the battery cables, cut the ends and installed new terminals. I didn’t replace the entire cable. I did this about a month ago. I have attached pics and you’ll see rust because it’s been seating out in the rain.
Tractor used to start right away until one day I tried starting it and it didn’t even make a sound. Checked battery and had to charge it. Still wouldn’t start. I cleaned the battery terminals and it started. At that point I decided to change battery terminals and after I did that’s when the problems started. When I connected the negative terminal it started sparking and I heard the starter go and even turn on the tractor but it died a few seconds after. When that happened I removed the negative from battery. I waited some time and tried it a second time, again I got sparks (small ones) and starter made noise as if trying to start the tractor but it wouldn’t. At that point I removed the negative terminal.
Ok I just tried it again, hardly any sparks but starter makes noise as if it’s dying. I made a video but I can’t attach it here, it doesn’t give me the option. Any ideas as to how I can send you the video?