We've priced ourselves out of business

[Sidekick]

Sad to say, I'm finding lately that some Chinese products have better quality and support then US made counterparts at this point. They have blown us away in manufacturing and high tech engineering. Look at all the made in China parts on your Kubota. Harbor Freight high end tools now undergo the same strength, life, and ergonomics testing as Snap-on tools. Face it, our leaders have caused this over the last 30 years and it's not going away without a war.

 

[jyoutz]

Sad to say, I'm finding lately that some Chinese products have better quality and support then US made counterparts at this point. They have blown us away in manufacturing and high tech engineering. Look at all the made in China parts on your Kubota. Harbor Freight high end tools now undergo the same strength, life, and ergonomics testing as Snap-on tools. Face it, our leaders have caused this over the last 30 years and it's not going away without a war.

It has nothing to do with war. The reason that jobs and industries were off shored was because companies are maximizing shareholder value.

 

[Sidekick]

It has nothing to do with war. The reason that jobs and industries were off shored was because companies are maximizing shareholder value.

That's what I said. The only way to stop it and bring manufacturers back will be a war with China.

 

[skeets]

I think if we dig deeper, we have not priced our selves out of business, we have been priced out of business. How many companies that were American are now controlled by a foreign concern , US STELL, JD, Ford, GM, Ma Bell and the list goes on. And we the American people are to blame because we the people put up with it. They keep pushing toward a global economy and we have allowed our selves to fall in to that trap. A worker in some 3rd world hell hole gets a buck a day and his family lives on it, pays no health ins, food that would make a billy goat puke and maybe a tin roof,, Now come here, good food, kids go to school nice home, and that all costs money, you have to work to pay for all this stuff, you cant make it on a buck a day, and the guy that owns the company, he has to make money to buy goods mostly from over seas some place so you and do you job and make a living. If going back to a futile system to have cheap prices, so much everything else go back and live like that guy in some 3rd world hell hole

 

[jyoutz]

I think if we dig deeper, we have not priced our selves out of business, we have been priced out of business. How many companies that were American are now controlled by a foreign concern , US STELL, JD, Ford, GM, Ma Bell and the list goes on. And we the American people are to blame because we the people put up with it. They keep pushing toward a global economy and we have allowed our selves to fall in to that trap. A worker in some 3rd world hell hole gets a buck a day and his family lives on it, pays no health ins, food that would make a billy goat puke and maybe a tin roof,, Now come here, good food, kids go to school nice home, and that all costs money, you have to work to pay for all this stuff, you cant make it on a buck a day, and the guy that owns the company, he has to make money to buy goods mostly from over seas some place so you and do you job and make a living. If going back to a futile system to have cheap prices, so much everything else go back and live like that guy in some 3rd world hell hole

But the U.S. corporate world did this to maximize profits. Shareholders want greater returns and companies turned to cheaper manufacturing. We have met the enemy and he is us.

 

[lugbolt]

well I have been watching trends over the last ~40 years and what I've seen is this. American workers' cost of living keeps going up, and they keep asking for more income to support it. Understandable, and respectable. Ask ourselves why the cost of living has increased.

Reasons are many. We chose a lifestyle that costs a lot. Inflation. Government overreach. Over-regulation. This stuff all adds up. Make more money, but stuff costs more money, so where do "we" as working people get? Nowhere. Big business benefits, after all 10% margin on $1000 is $100. But 10% of $100,000 is $10,000, so as inflation increases so do profits. And government benefits (higher tax revenue).

Follow the money trail.

when it costs more to manufacture stuff in the USA, than it does to pay a foreign company to make it, then pay another company to send it to us, then pay another company to truck it to the store, we have a problem. One that cannot be solved without hurting a LOT of people.

another beef I have is this. Because of the cost of doing business in the usa is so high, much of our stuff is made in china. What happens if china decides to go to war with us? If they cut our imports off, or alter them in some way that would be destructive, we would be out of luck. Even some stuff for the US military comes from China. It's nuts. But necessary to keep the cost of living down. As I said, it's a cycle that has no good outcome.

 

[D2Cat]

well I have been watching trends over the last ~40 years and what I've seen is this. American workers' cost of living keeps going up, and they keep asking for more income to support it. Understandable, and respectable. Ask ourselves why the cost of living has increased.

Reasons are many. We chose a lifestyle that costs a lot. Inflation. Government overreach. Over-regulation. This stuff all adds up. Make more money, but stuff costs more money, so where do "we" as working people get? Nowhere. Big business benefits, after all 10% margin on $1000 is $100. But 10% of $100,000 is $10,000, so as inflation increases so do profits. And government benefits (higher tax revenue).

Follow the money trail.

when it costs more to manufacture stuff in the USA, than it does to pay a foreign company to make it, then pay another company to send it to us, then pay another company to truck it to the store, we have a problem. One that cannot be solved without hurting a LOT of people.

another beef I have is this. Because of the cost of doing business in the usa is so high, much of our stuff is made in china. What happens if china decides to go to war with us? If they cut our imports off, or alter them in some way that would be destructive, we would be out of luck. Even some stuff for the US military comes from China. It's nuts. But necessary to keep the cost of living down. As I said, it's a cycle that has no good outcome.

And many medications (at least the base materials) come from China. How about materials for all the batteries the government says we will need in the auto they think will save us. If the US doesn't make BIG changes we will be a third world country, and wondering what happened. When something happens to our water supplies, or communications network we are not made of the material our fathers and grandfathers were and we will be done.

What Is the U.S. National Debt Right Now — and Why Is It So High?

See the latest numbers and learn more about the causes of our high and rising national debt.

www.pgpf.org

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: What happens if china decides to go to war with us?
Not 'if' , it's really 'WHEN'.

One of the first things they'd do is activate the shutdown code in all the Made in China electronics like cellphones, smart phones,process control computers, etc.

In the 'good old days', farmers were self reliant or their immediate neighbours. Since then the 'con' that everyone NEEDS high tech stuff has required mfrs to outsource to other countries. After all if a burger flipper gets $20/hr ,skilled trades should get $200/hr !

 

[Biker1mike]

" The good old days"
The US started trade with China in 1784 !
Close to 240 years.
Hard to blame the Chinese when we have had 4 - 5 generations of US citizens helping it along.

 

[lugbolt]

if a burger flipper gets $20/hr ,skilled trades should get $200/hr !

yes if that fact alone doesn't get under the skin of every single skilled tradesman or tradeswoman, it should.

When I was workin at the kubota dealer they paid me $22/hr. Barely more than what I could have made flipping burgers, and the skills (and personal investments) needed to do kubota work are quite a bit more involved than those needed to work at a fast-food restaurant. Not taking away from those who do that, because they're important too, but the skill set (and tools, knowledge, risk, etc) are all completely different.

I believe that you can indeed pay people too much money too. An entry-level job is not one to be paid $50,000 a year; rather pay them a lot less and instill into them that they can work their way up a ladder where they can make good money. Or do it the liberal way and pay them a nice salary so they can go buy more beer and cigarettes which all cost more, so nobody gets anywhere except if they are the tax collector...

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Have a look at the Ontario 'sunshine list' to see who DOESN'T need to be paid OBSCENE salaries !!!
BTW doctors are NOT on the list, even though the PUBLIC pays for them.....DGMG

 

[jyoutz]

yes if that fact alone doesn't get under the skin of every single skilled tradesman or tradeswoman, it should.

When I was workin at the kubota dealer they paid me $22/hr. Barely more than what I could have made flipping burgers, and the skills (and personal investments) needed to do kubota work are quite a bit more involved than those needed to work at a fast-food restaurant. Not taking away from those who do that, because they're important too, but the skill set (and tools, knowledge, risk, etc) are all completely different.

I believe that you can indeed pay people too much money too. An entry-level job is not one to be paid $50,000 a year; rather pay them a lot less and instill into them that they can work their way up a ladder where they can make good money. Or do it the liberal way and pay them a nice salary so they can go buy more beer and cigarettes which all cost more, so nobody gets anywhere except if they are the tax collector...

Current wages are reflective of the current tight labor market. Lots of job vacancies out there.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

and not many want to work ! Easier to sit in your free house, eating free food ordered on your free phone......

 

[lugbolt]

Current wages are reflective of the current tight labor market. Lots of job vacancies out there.

not as many according to you-know-who (says we have the lowest unemployed rates, like ever)

 

[ctfjr]

not as many according to you-know-who (says we have the lowest unemployed rates, like ever)

perhaps you have different (alternative) facts?

 

[jyoutz]

not as many according to you-know-who (says we have the lowest unemployed rates, like ever)

I don’t pay attention to the political discussion about jobs. I know that most local businesses have help wanted signs and job vacancy advertisements. Anyone who truly wants a job can get one today in the United States. I have never seen so many job vacancies. But it was predicted. The last of the baby boomers population is retiring.

 

[Speed25]

View attachment 129252

perhaps you have different (alternative) facts?

Unemployment rate is different than labor participation rate. I'd be curious to see how unemployment rates compares to labor participation rate in relation to working age Americans. Those that sit at home on their butt getting paid by the government don't count as unemployed if they're not looking for work.

 

[jyoutz]

Unemployment rate is different than labor participation rate. I'd be curious to see how unemployment rates compares to labor participation rate in relation to working age Americans. Those that sit at home on their butt getting paid by the government don't count as unemployed if they're not looking for work.

Labor participation rate isn’t a very good measure. Why are people not in the labor market? Well they could be a stay at home spouse, student, disabled, a trust funder, working under the table or a gig worker, between jobs, or they could be deadbeats as you say.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Always wondered why is the 'unemployed rate' so high when there's 'hiring now' signs all over the place ??? and... WHY import more people, if there's NO jobs for them ???

 

[Speed25]

Labor participation rate isn’t a very good measure. Why are people not in the labor market? Well they could be a stay at home spouse, student, disabled, a trust funder, working under the table or a gig worker, between jobs, or they could be deadbeats as you say.

Definitely true on the second half. My wife didn't go back to work after having our child as child care costs, tax bracket implications, etc all factored in, and our take home pay at the end of the day wouldn't change at all if she worked or didn't work. I'd argue that more able-bodied people staying at home than working is a society in decline when the government has run amok in spending.