T&T/ Rear Remote Question

[The Evil Twin]

I've searched here and other places but I'm not really understanding what all I need. I'm contemplating adding hydraulics on the 3 pt for t&t. It's a luxury, as I haven't needed it. I just make the adjustments manually. No biggie.
What I seem to gather, is I'll need a 2 spool rear kit as well as the T&T kit?
The rear remote kits run anywhere from $900 up from aftermarkets. No idea about K because I can't find a "kit". I also don't know what I'm looking for. Lol.
Then the T&T kit on top of the rear remote kit?
If that is the case, that puts the luxury price tag north of $2k
As I said, I don't really know what kit/ parts I'm looking for. Just asking here because the closest dealer appears to want part #s. Which I don't know.
L2501 w/ loader and 3rd function already installed.

 

[mikester]

If you don't have rear remotes it does get pricey. I was interested in the Fit-Rite Hydraulics TNT but held off due to the long lead times.

I finally added a hydraulic top link during covid and bought the top link on sale, hoses and fittings from princess auto and got free shipping, all in for under $200.

I use the top link a lot. I don't really think I need the tilt at this point but I don't do a lot of landscape grading work using a blade. You'd probably get away with a single remote on a budget. I find I use 2 remotes a lot, top link and attachment function.

When I bought the M59 I added three rear remotes and one for the loader. Easier pill to swallow at that point. My old tractor only had a single rear remote and a diverter and was something like $2400 to add a second remote. I was constantly wishing for a second remote.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I ordered mine with rear remotes, so I can't help with that part, however, my "standard advice" for a T&T set up is:

If you think you want a DPOCV on the cylinders to prevent leaking down, buy them like that.

Trying to add them to the cylinders for an overall "clean look" is a nightmare.

I am going to take @TheOldHokie advice and put the tilt cylinder DPOCV in the lines instead of on the cylinder itself.

 

[The Evil Twin]

If you don't have rear remotes it does get pricey. I was interested in the Fit-Rite Hydraulics TNT but held off due to the long lead times.

I finally added a hydraulic top link during covid and bought the top link on sale, hoses and fittings from princess auto and got free shipping, all in for under $200.

I use the top link a lot. I don't really think I need the tilt at this point but I don't do a lot of landscape grading work using a blade. You'd probably get away with a single remote on a budget. I find I use 2 remotes a lot, top link and attachment function.

When I bought the M59 I added three rear remotes and one for the loader. Easier pill to swallow at that point. My old tractor only had a single rear remote and a diverter and was something like $2400 to add a second remote. I was constantly wishing for a second remote.

Maybe I'm more confused than I thought. Would I only need 1 remote for T&T? I thought it was 1 remote for each function (T + T = 2 remotes)

 

[The Evil Twin]

I ordered mine with rear remotes, so I can't help with that part, however, my "standard advice" for a T&T set up is:

If you think you want a DPOCV on the cylinders to prevent leaking down, buy them like that.

Trying to add them to the cylinders for an overall "clean look" is a nightmare.

I am going to take @TheOldHokie advice and put the tilt cylinder DPOCV in the lines instead of on the cylinder itself.

Being military central, I'm pretty good with acronyms. But what is DPOCV?

 

[fried1765]

Being military central, I'm pretty good with acronyms. But what is DPOCV?

DPOCV = Double Pilot Operated Check Valve !

 

[TheOldHokie]

I've searched here and other places but I'm not really understanding what all I need. I'm contemplating adding hydraulics on the 3 pt for t&t. It's a luxury, as I haven't needed it. I just make the adjustments manually. No biggie.
What I seem to gather, is I'll need a 2 spool rear kit as well as the T&T kit?
The rear remote kits run anywhere from $900 up from aftermarkets. No idea about K because I can't find a "kit". I also don't know what I'm looking for. Lol.
Then the T&T kit on top of the rear remote kit?
If that is the case, that puts the luxury price tag north of $2k
As I said, I don't really know what kit/ parts I'm looking for. Just asking here because the closest dealer appears to want part #s. Which I don't know.
L2501 w/ loader and 3rd function already installed.

For OEM kits you are well over $2K. The rear remotes and valves will cost you that much by themselves:

Factory Rear Remote Stacking Kits - Valves sold separately

L7211B - First position base kit with first lever - $907
L7212A - Second position kit with second lever - $452

Factory Rear Remote Valves - choose 2

L7231A - spring center - $239
L7232A - spring center with float detent - $434
L7233A - self canceling detents - $492

If you want to roll your own you can put a two spool aftermarket valve on the tractor for $350+.
The remote outlets and associated plumbing run you another $300+

That's for Plain Jane valve and couplers. If you want to get fancy the price goes up quick.

Dan

 

[mcmxi]

Maybe I'm more confused than I thought. Would I only need 1 remote for T&T? I thought it was 1 remote for each function (T + T = 2 remotes)

You need one "remote" for each function, so for top-n-tilt you'll need two remotes with two valves (levers). I have three remotes in both tractors and opted for at least one valve in each tractor to have a float option. I ordered three sets of rear remotes on the MX, and added a third rear remote to the M since it came with two already.

I use the remotes a lot and wish I could add a fourth to be honest. My hydraulic flail uses two remotes so I have to give up either the top or tilt cylinder when running it.

I had three rear remotes on the MX open station too and would never consider not having them on a tractor. If you run a quick hitch the top-n-tilt makes hook up a breeze, and running any sort of blade out back be it a box blade, land plane or angled blade, is a much better experience when you have TNT.

 

[ayak]

The Kubota valves (what I have from the kits) do tend to be a bit leaky, just depends on what you can tolerate. They were ok for my purposes.
I believe Check valves can mitigate that but then take away float capability, if that’s needed (I float my side link).
I bought my valve kits from Kubota and self installed them. Then I ordered the side and top cylinders from Brian at Fitrite—excellent quality and well worth the wait, if it suits you. He uses restrictors in the valves which makes a big difference with the fine control.

 

[The Evil Twin]

For OEM kits you are well over $2K. The rear remotes and valves will cost you that much by themselves:

Factory Rear Remote Stacking Kits - Valves sold separately

L7211B - First position base kit with first lever - $907
L7212A - Second position kit with second lever - $452

Factory Rear Remote Valves - choose 2

L7231A - spring center - $239
L7232A - spring center with float detent - $434
L7233A - self canceling detents - $492

If you want to roll your own you can put a two spool aftermarket valve on the tractor for $350+.
The remote outlets and associated plumbing run you another $300+

That's for Plain Jane valve and couplers. If you want to get fancy the price goes up quick.

Dan

Wow. And I thought Honda was proud of their parts!
The tilt is the super luxury item. Mostly it would be the top link that would get used. That would help reduce the cost a bit. I assume the 2nd position kit could be stacked on later if I wanted?
Also, what do the three flavors of remote valves do differently? I don't expect to need float since I will only be using a BB, rake and maybe some other ground engaging widget.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Also, what do the three flavors of remote valves do differently?

Spring center is typical pish/pull lever that automagically retirns to neutral when you let go

The float valve is the same as spring center but has a fourth locking position that lets the cylinder float. Think loader valve.

Self canceling detent is push/pull lever that locks in each position. When the cylinder hits end of stroke it automagically unlocks amd returms to center. Think log splitter valve.

Bottom line is hydraulics is not a poor man's sport.

Dan

 

[GeoHorn]

When I was shopping for a used M4700DT… I found TWO of them within 40 miles of my home. BOTH of them had only 400 hrs on them and no damage. Both had LA1002 loaders.
One of the two had no extra hydraulics….and I wasn’t searching for remote hyds because my previous tractor (9N) was only used for mowing 20+ acres and had no loader… so I felt like I was making a huge leap forward getting diesel, horsepower, and a loader.

The one 40 miles from me was $20K and had a canopy and a grapple…and I could not imagine what I’d do with that because I had no land needing clearlng…. I only planned to use a FEL to move a little dirt.

The one only 20 miles from me was $17K w/bucket.

I called the one 40 miles away and asked if he’d consider selling it without the grapple…and he said ”yes”…but only knocked $1K off the price….. so I bought the $17K tractor and never looked at the other.

I’ve since added one set of remotes (diverter valve) for a hyd top-link ($2K) a canopy, and pallet forks and realize how helpful some remotes up front would be with that new property I now have that needs clearing……(the guy with a bobcat will charge me $1K to clear the acre I need)….and I have really really really kicked myself for not driving that extra 15 miles and spent another $3K.

I Do Enjoy the excellent service the one I bought performs….but often wonder what coulda been…

Remote Hyds are valuable.

 

[Yotekiller]

I just did this and rolled my own with the much needed help of Dan AKA TheOldHokie.

I paid $1160 to have all my hoses custom cut including all the fittings I needed to install everything - these were high-end ss fittings as well. I paid around a $100 for the valve and another $200 for the top link. I have yet to locate a side link... Made my own brackets so very little expense there.

 

[The Evil Twin]

Spring center is typical pish/pull lever that automagically retirns to neutral when you let go

The float valve is the same as spring center but has a fourth locking position that lets the cylinder float. Think loader valve.

Self canceling detent is push/pull lever that locks in each position. When the cylinder hits end of stroke it automagically unlocks amd returms to center. Think log splitter valve.

Bottom line is hydraulics is not a poor man's sport.

Dan

Thanks for the excellent examples!
What I just might do is add on the 1st position kit w/ a spring center valve now. Then add another valve later on if I decide I really want the tilt feature. And/ or find a need for a 2nd valve.
Would I be able to add the 2nd valve later without having to undo anything I did for the 1st valve?

 

[Yotekiller]

Thanks for the excellent examples!
What I just might do is add on the 1st position kit w/ a spring center valve now. Then add another valve later on if I decide I really want the tilt feature. And/ or find a need for a 2nd valve.
Would I be able to add the 2nd valve later without having to undo anything I did for the 1st valve?

You can do a 2 spool valve right now and cap off the other ports if not using them. I think that would be better than adding an additional valve in the future. You may not need tilt but maybe someday you'll have an implement where you'll need that second remote. Just a thought...

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks for the excellent examples!
What I just might do is add on the 1st position kit w/ a spring center valve now. Then add another valve later on if I decide I really want the tilt feature. And/ or find a need for a 2nd valve.
Would I be able to add the 2nd valve later without having to undo anything I did for the 1st valve?

Absolutely. The remotrs are sectional valves that are sandwiched to the side of the transmission. There is an aluminum manifold that is the base for mounting the valvex and an outlet sectiom that goes on the end of the stack and clamps everything together. To add a second or third valve you judt remove the outlet section and sandwich the new valve up against the existing stack using longer studs.

The only concern I can think of in tthat strategy is future non-availability of the 2nd position stacking kit and/or valve.

Dan

 

[ayak]

Since I was doing the work myself, I just went ahead and completed all the factory sections that will fit (three), since taking off the rear tire and fender to do the stack work itself isn’t a trivial thing. And now that I’ve seen how grimy and rusty things have become in that area, I don’t believe adding more sections later would have been an easy thing to do. If you add one, you’ll yearn for two, and if you just two, you’ll find you need three

 

[jyoutz]

Wow. And I thought Honda was proud of their parts!
The tilt is the super luxury item. Mostly it would be the top link that would get used. That would help reduce the cost a bit. I assume the 2nd position kit could be stacked on later if I wanted?
Also, what do the three flavors of remote valves do differently? I don't expect to need float since I will only be using a BB, rake and maybe some other ground engaging widget.

I’ve also been considering adding remotes. IDK the pros and cons, but I see that summit hydraulics has a 4 remote kit for $1100 and change. And they mount to the ROPS, so no fender disassembly.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I’ve also been considering adding remotes. IDK the pros and cons, but I see that summit hydraulics has a 4 remote kit for $1100 and change.

A primary difference is electric vs manual. A Summit 4 spool manual valve with float on all spools is $400.

Dan

 

[fried1765]

Since I was doing the work myself, I just went ahead and completed all the factory sections that will fit (three), since taking off the rear tire and fender to do the stack work itself isn’t a trivial thing. And now that I’ve seen how grimy and rusty things have become in that area, I don’t believe adding more sections later would have been an easy thing to do. If you add one, you’ll yearn for two, and if you just two, you’ll find you need three

My L48 TLB came to me used, with three rear remotes.
Have never used any,.... but....I am ready!