B7100 HST rattling noise

[aboonzaayer]

Hello I have a B7100 HST that makes a rattling/grinding noise but only occasionally.

I have noticed the noise before but it always goes away pretty quickly.

I ran it for awhile yesterday pushing stuff around with a back blade, throttled down getting ready to put away and it made the noise so I got a video of it.

Obviously I don't want to damage something further, thanks for any advice!

 

[Donystoy]

Does the noise change when you push in the clutch? Remove the cover in center and see how the shaft is going from the clutch housing to the HST. Where does the noise appear to be coming from? Should be able to narrow it down a bit. A noise like that should be able to easily locate. Could even be a clutch that is ready to self-destruct or the throw out bearing acting up. Bearings can be intermittent in noise.

 

[jaxs]

I concur with Donystoy about systematically narrowing down location then go from there. Again I agree that clutch assembly is my first suspect. Bad throw-out bearing noise will usually change when touching pressure plate fingers. Bad clutch or pressure plate usually require pedal pushed harder/farthar before noise changes than t-bearing. Worn out pilot bushing will often osilate differently as clutch is pressed and released. A less common cause is the coupling between pilot shaft and transmission input shaft which is viewable from beneath. Unfortunatly the tractor must be split to see t-bearing,p-plate, clutch and pilot bushing.
There are about 4 versions of B7100 , go to ://www.messicks.com to see these parts for a better understanding. And of course you will need a workshop manual if you do repairs yourself.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Pull the HST cover off the center and check this joint.

 

[D2Cat]

Pull the HST cover off the center and check this joint.
View attachment 121534

That's what I was going to suggest. Remember when you helped me with that joint on my B7100? It had been welded and I carefully cut the weld to save the shaft in the transmission!

 

[jaxs]

That's what I was going to suggest. Remember when you helped me with that joint on my B7100? It had been welded and I carefully cut the weld to save the shaft in the transmission!

WELDED ? wth were they thinking? Was it basically like a one piece shaft with no flex or were they just trying to save the price of a snap ring?

 

[aboonzaayer]

I used it again off and on for most of the day, didn't make the noise at all..

When it was doing it yesterday the noise would go away instantly when I pushed the clutch.

I have no idea what this is supposed to look like..

Took off the cover today and got a video.

Thanks for the replies

 

[D2Cat]

The hub piece with the wire that rotates on the shaft has 3 or 4 steel balls the size of a pea that function like a flexible slip joint. The piece with the wire should have a roll pin in there to keep it tight to the shaft and the wire helps to keep the roll pin in place. The components wear over time.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

With the tractor NOT running and shaft NOT spinning, Grab the shaft before it goes into the joint and wiggle it side to side, if it rattles it will need to be replaced.
I'm seeing a lot of side to side play in the video.
Other than that I would say the throw-out bearing and the pilot bearing could be the issue too.

Edit in bold was added after Jaxs made note of it:

 

[jaxs]

I used it again off and on for most of the day, didn't make the noise at all..

When it was doing it yesterday the noise would go away instantly when I pushed the clutch.
View attachment 121579 View attachment 121580
I have no idea what this is supposed to look like..

Took off the cover today and got a video.


Thanks for the replies

"I have no idea what this is supposed to look like"
Please forgive me for warning about the obvious but I get cold chills when videos are posted of rotating shafts. When folks advise checking for slack or rattle THEY MEAN YOU SHOULD DO IT ONLY WHILE TRACTOR ISN"T RUNNONG. Don't even touch the shaft or related pieces with a stick or screwdriver while it's rotating.
Ok I feel better now. I don't see anything unusual other than all that grease from over greasing the throw out bearing carrier. As wolf said see if there's looseness in that fist size coupling. If you hear rattle when moving shaft make sure it isn't coming from T O bearing carrier which would be normal. The bad news here is that it's looking like a tractor split regardless what is rattling. Until now I haven't heard of anyone being able to replace that fist size coupling (ball joint) without splitting tractor. Whether you plan hiring someone to fix it or diy I suggest getting a shop manual now to start familiarizing yourself with what to expect and how to evaluate wear on various parts. Reason being that unless clutch and pressure plate are in excellent condition it's generally wise replacing them while tractor is split. Ditto for prop shaft, t out bearing, pilot bushing ect. Just for the record and help folks know how to respond if a split is required, do you plan diy or hiring it done? Several here have performed splits for various reasons so searching terms like clutch, pressure plate, pilot bushing, split and such will turn up a generous amount of reading to help you better ask questions.

 

[Donystoy]

I would love to put a stethoscope or something solid to my ear to try to narrow down the location of the noise. The coupling certainly appears to have issues. Would hate to do all the splitting and repairs only to find the noise is still there and is in the HST. Although with that kind of noise if in the HST the tractor likely would not function.
If it was mine and after splitting it and replacing clutch components etc. I would likely spin the input shaft of the HST somehow to verify that it was o/k just for my peace of mind before re-assembling the tractor.
Good luck with the repairs and sourcing parts.

 

[jaxs]

I wasn't suggesting op split the tractor before farther investigating , but I do think hoof prints look more like a horse than zebra. I like your idea of listening device to farther narrow where rattle is originating. However it does tighten the pucker string to think of getting that close while shaft is spinning.

 

[D2Cat]

I would love to put a stethoscope or something solid to my ear to try to narrow down the location of the noise. The coupling certainly appears to have issues. Would hate to do all the splitting and repairs only to find the noise is still there and is in the HST. Although with that kind of noise if in the HST the tractor likely would not function.
If it was mine and after splitting it and replacing clutch components etc. I would likely spin the input shaft of the HST somehow to verify that it was o/k just for my peace of mind before re-assembling the tractor.
Good luck with the repairs and sourcing parts.

You can get an inexpensive stethoscope at Harbor Freight for for your investigation.

 

[Donystoy]

You can get an inexpensive stethoscope at Harbor Freight for your investigation.

I assume you meant this for the OP. I have had a stethoscope for years.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I've heard that exact noise several times.
Sometimes it's the joint, sometimes it's the throw-out bearing, sometimes it's the pilot bushing, and quite a few times it was all of them.
If I go in to do a joint check / repair, I just end up replacing everything at once, so I really can't tell you with a 100% certainty that the joint was the actual culprit or not.

 

[aboonzaayer]

Sorry for the delay.

Yes I do plan to do the work myself. I am mechanically inclined just unfamiliar with this tractor.

Here is a video of wiggling the propellor shaft, hopefully this can help narrow down the extent

https://youtube.com/shorts/PQQTmDViKUA?si=ipC2cmQKhK9_NCNd

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

With that your probably looking at a bad throw-out bearing or pilot bushing issue.
I would get a complete clutch kit and do all of it at once.

 

[D2Cat]

When I did my B7100 I raised the front of the tractor up with a hoist to about 40 deg. with the rear tires blocked real good. I could then get the shaft and coupling out of there. I didn't replace clutch components though.

 

[jaxs]

I can't say one way or another from watching the vid. It does look like slack and sound like some ratt.le from throw-out bearing carrier but I wouldn't worry with replacing carrier as long as it does it's job. I don't see or hear anything at prop shaft to tranny coupling. I do have an off the wall test to possable see if rattle is from carrier. Will this work? Use feeler guage or improvised feeler to find clearance between carrier and housing. Split clearance 3 ways and force 3 non-metallic shims (like pieces of plastic from tide jug) between carrier and housing. I said earlier I'd never heard of anyone removing these parts without splitting but D2cat has my attention with that hi-o Silver maneuver.

 

[19thSF]

Hello I have a B7100 HST that makes a rattling/grinding noise but only occasionally.

I have noticed the noise before but it always goes away pretty quickly.

I ran it for awhile yesterday pushing stuff around with a back blade, throttled down getting ready to put away and it made the noise so I got a video of it.

Obviously I don't want to damage something further, thanks for any advice!

Is this a new noise? It kind of sounds like the noise my B2650 makes at low RPM, and my "rattle" has been attributed to gear lash. Straight cut gears will do that. Just a long shot, but at least worth mentioning.

Bob