Marry M4500DT front end with M4050 2wd

[BI Trencher]

This past spring I picked up a low hour M4050 (2wd) at a great price and was planning on fixing the few machanical issues then selling. After using it a bit this summer, I really liked the tractor and was thinking of making it a little bit better.

First question: Has anyone here converted their 2wd into a DT? Assume a salvage machine as parts.

Second question: knowing that the M4500 and M4050 share a lot of parts; are there any major road blocks I should look for before/ when I try this?

Before you ask why I would use a 4500DT as a donor - I have a lead on a salvage unit, the front end is stronger, and there was more of these built than the 4050DT.

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

 

[mikester]

If you have the time and money and inclination you can do all sorts of surprising things

 

[JohnDB]

This past spring I picked up a low hour M4050 (2wd) at a great price and was planning on fixing the few machanical issues then selling. After using it a bit this summer, I really liked the tractor and was thinking of making it a little bit better.

First question: Has anyone here converted their 2wd into a DT? Assume a salvage machine as parts.

Second question: knowing that the M4500 and M4050 share a lot of parts; are there any major road blocks I should look for before/ when I try this?

Before you ask why I would use a 4500DT as a donor - I have a lead on a salvage unit, the front end is stronger, and there was more of these built than the 4050DT.

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

Never converted a tractor like that. I have wondered about putting a M4050 engine into a M4500DT if I ever needed to, concluded that given the engine blocks are different part numbers it wouldn't be worth the risk unless unlimited time and money.

Major road blocks: if you are planning to convert the M4050 to 4WD do part number searches to find out if the front axle drive gears in the transmission and the driveline are compatible.

Good luck

 

[BI Trencher]

Never converted a tractor like that. I have wondered about putting a M4050 engine into a M4500DT if I ever needed to, concluded that given the engine blocks are different part numbers it wouldn't be worth the risk unless unlimited time and money.

Major road blocks: if you are planning to convert the M4050 to 4WD do part number searches to find out if the front axle drive gears in the transmission and the driveline are compatible.

Good luck

Agreed, doing a pn search is a good step. Which I did a rough one before posting here. i could be wrong but I’m pretty sure the block numbers are the same. Same with the clutches the clutch housing (except for the DT because it has the shaft out the front).

The m4500 has the S2600-A engine the m4050 has the S2600-AL engine. I believe the ”L” is for lower HP (55.5 vs 48). I believe the fuel pump( also the same) is just adjusted differently.

I wasn’t planning on spending a ton of many that is why I was getting a salvage tractor for the basic parts needed. If I can get a salvage for $1500 and I got the 4050 for 3k and put a $1500 is parts that’s 6k for a low hr Eng 55hp 4wd tractor.

 

[rbargeron]

Adding all the parts needed to establish a driveshaft to the front will take a lot of parts list study and head scratching. Get copies (see links below) of the two versions of each affected areas of the tractors and determine ahead of time all the pieces that will need to change - and exactly how all the interfaces resolve. Compare the major housings, front bracket, propeller shaft drive parts, shafts, gears, & bearings down to the thrust washers. Then stand back and see if it passes the basic feasibility test. It will be a cool project when (if) it all goes together.

In the '80s Kubota printed parts books for each model M4050 examples here and another here - for an M4500 DT - good resources for the project.

For persapective it might be good to follow up on whatever became of this '82 M4050DT in Virginia. (scroll down to see it)

Best luck! Dick B.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

There are a whole lot of parts that will need to be swapped over to make it work.
And that is if everything will swap over.
There could be a lot of unseen variables.

 

[JohnDB]

... i could be wrong but I’m pretty sure the block numbers are the same. ...

H'mmm, maybe I'm wrong. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[rbargeron]

One more not-so-subtle thing to resolve - the overall ratio of the tire contact patch you'll have with both axles engaged. Most 4wd tractor producers (including Kubota) typically design for about a 2%-6% lead up front. If the fronts pull by by more than that, traction performance will be off - tire wear, hard steering, and poor pulling will result. It would be a shame to get it all put together and find it was traction-bound in 4wd.

TBN and OTT have several discussions about 4wd tire size combinations for correct 4wd operation. When changing the internal gearing too, a lot needs to be taken into account.

To figure a machine's front-to-back ratio start with the distance covered per revolution of the back tires - and then figure the distance covered by the front, using all the drive line ratios from the back to the front including propeller shaft gearing, front differential ratio, front kingpin/final hub ratio, and front tire circumference - in short follow the gear train all the way to the tire contact patch. Sounds messy but once you've done it a few times, it is pretty easy to get the same answer twice in a row.

Take care, Dick B.

 

[rbargeron]

More on the subject of gear ratios for proper 4wd function, This thread gets into it starting at post #17 Its part of a discussion from May of 2021 about tire sizes and their rolling circumferences. The tractor discussed is an L5450DT but the terms "Inter-axle ratio" and "Transference Ratio" apply to all tractors.

 

[BI Trencher]

This past spring I picked up a low hour M4050 (2wd) at a great price and was planning on fixing the few machanical issues then selling. After using it a bit this summer, I really liked the tractor and was thinking of making it a little bit better.

First question: Has anyone here converted their 2wd into a DT? Assume a salvage machine as parts.

Second question: knowing that the M4500 and M4050 share a lot of parts; are there any major road blocks I should look for before/ when I try this?

Before you ask why I would use a 4500DT as a donor - I have a lead on a salvage unit, the front end is stronger, and there was more of these built than the 4050DT.

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

While I was searching for parts to try this out I found a M4500DT that was for sale in my price range because it needed some work.

I will be selling the M4050 once the M4500 is repaired to my liking and tests out under heavy load.

 

[JohnDB]

I will be selling the M4050 once the M4500 is repaired to my liking and tests out under heavy load.

If you need genuine Kubota WSM pdf for the M4500DT PM me.

 

[BI Trencher]

If you need genuine Kubota WSM pdf for the M4500DT PM me.

I have one already, but thank you.