R.I.P The beloved Garden Tractor

torch

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Maybe I'm slow to the party on this, but after spending time looking up who makes a Garden Tractor, in it's best sense, the one company left stand is Deere.
It seems somebody forgot to tell MTD. And Troy-built. And Cub Cadet. They're still making (or at least selling under their respective names) blowers and snow blades and sprayers and carts and baggers along with their lawn and garden tractors.
 
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GrassLakeRon

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It seems somebody forgot to tell MTD. And Troy-built. And Cub Cadet. They're still making (or at least selling under their respective names) blowers and snow blades and sprayers and carts and baggers along with their lawn and garden tractors.
Well according to their various press releases they are stopping too. Cub has theirs on clearance to dump them. Troy built stopped and anything that Briggs owns is pulling out as from September this year. I looked on their websites then went to a couple of dealer sites.... No longer in production. Lawn tractors, yes. Cub has the xt2 but no major attachments other then a small front plow.
 

KKBL

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Only the Deere x700 series (x900 series in europe) is listed as a garden tractor, the rest as a sub compact. Messick's put out a video called "The death of the garden tractor". When I owned mine i never thought they would be on the out, when i went to replace it, they were gone. I what I bought was billed as one, but sadly it never was.
The John Deere site lists the x700 as:
"X700 Signature Series Lawn Tractors"
They appear to be a "cut" above the MTD made big box junk, but I doubt that they would last more than 10 years before the stamped mower deck rusts away and some replacement parts are NLA. (Planned obsolescence so you will have to buy a new one)
At over $4000 with model specific attachments, perhaps a good used SCUT is a better purchase to use as a garden tractor that could last for several decades.
 

mcfarmall

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I have a Wheel Horse C-161 automatic with the 16hp Kohler cast iron engine to get rid of.
 

GrassLakeRon

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The John Deere site lists the x700 as:
"X700 Signature Series Lawn Tractors"
They appear to be a "cut" above the MTD made big box junk, but I doubt that they would last more than 10 years before the stamped mower deck rusts away and some replacement parts are NLA. (Planned obsolescence so you will have to buy a new one)
At over $4000 with model specific attachments, perhaps a good used SCUT is a better purchase to use as a garden tractor that could last for several decades.
They won't. I just got rid of the "Best" troy built super bronco GT 54XP Fab (26hp "Garden Tractor" with a 54" Fabricated deck). They called it a garden tractor but when you did garden tractor things with it, it broke. I sold it with 165 hours on it, having spent $$$ each of the 3 years i owned it. My Legacy didn't do that. That was a garden tractor. I looked at the Cub, it was junk, it is a Troy Built Super Bronco with a different hood. Those are lawn tractors..... I bought a B8200 rather then dealing with the scraps of what was a left in that market. The folks with a the JD 425-455 and Simplicity Legacy folks want as much as a nice used Compact for what they have.... it was a no brain'er.
 

GreensvilleJay

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I've got a 20 year old 'White' (MTD), 24HP,54" cut that the HST finally wore out., won't go up hills any more. Deck is still great,no rust, solid after mowing 5 acres of HILLY grass for the previous owner every friggin weekend. He also used it to haul a 4by6 trailer of 'brush' to the back of his property,1/4 mile each way. Yes he ABUSED the tractor but it outlived him.
My trusty Cub Cadet(MTD) is older, great HST in it,original deck,used it to cut down winter rye in the spring for 4 seasons. It starts,runs, cuts lawn, bags clippings,does what I need it to do all for $300 22 years ago.
Bought a $4K JD rider one year for $250( wouldn't go up slopes..but you could eat off it..) HST shot. JD went against HST maker's specs and cheaped out on the internals and oil for the HST. If caught soon enough( I was lucky), less than $100 in parts and 1 day labour repaired and made BETTER the HST. One of the few riders I actually made money on during the past 3 decades.
From what I've seen and had to deal with,it's lack of maintenance that kills most riders. NOT cleaning decks after use, NOT cleaning the HST case are the top two. Decks rot out from wet grass left on them, HSTs die from overheating.
As for 'junk'. Top of my list is the 2018 BX23S I bought 5 years ago as my 65th present to myself. Already on the THIRD set of front tires and will need 4th come spring ! Also a PITA to change the 1st fuel filter,unlike ANY 'rider'.
 

lynnmor

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I have a Wheel Horse C-161 automatic with the 16hp Kohler cast iron engine to get rid of.
I would be glad to help you with that, but you are 9 hours away.

It would be a nice addition to my four Wheel Horse 520H fleet. With a hydraulic loader, two snow plows, ground plow, single stage and 2 stage snowblowers, cab, grader blade, two 60" mowers, four 48" mowers, 42" rear discharge mower, disc harrow, worker and numerous tow behind implements I could reduce the change-over times.

Just show me a current production garden tractor that can do what I can do for a reasonable cost.
 

GrassLakeRon

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B8200HST-DP , RC60-82h Mower Deck, Woods RB6 Rear Blade, Homemade Carry All
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Grass Lake, Michigan
I've got a 20 year old 'White' (MTD), 24HP,54" cut that the HST finally wore out., won't go up hills any more. Deck is still great,no rust, solid after mowing 5 acres of HILLY grass for the previous owner every friggin weekend. He also used it to haul a 4by6 trailer of 'brush' to the back of his property,1/4 mile each way. Yes he ABUSED the tractor but it outlived him.
My trusty Cub Cadet(MTD) is older, great HST in it,original deck,used it to cut down winter rye in the spring for 4 seasons. It starts,runs, cuts lawn, bags clippings,does what I need it to do all for $300 22 years ago.
Bought a $4K JD rider one year for $250( wouldn't go up slopes..but you could eat off it..) HST shot. JD went against HST maker's specs and cheaped out on the internals and oil for the HST. If caught soon enough( I was lucky), less than $100 in parts and 1 day labour repaired and made BETTER the HST. One of the few riders I actually made money on during the past 3 decades.
From what I've seen and had to deal with,it's lack of maintenance that kills most riders. NOT cleaning decks after use, NOT cleaning the HST case are the top two. Decks rot out from wet grass left on them, HSTs die from overheating.
As for 'junk'. Top of my list is the 2018 BX23S I bought 5 years ago as my 65th present to myself. Already on the THIRD set of front tires and will need 4th come spring ! Also a PITA to change the 1st fuel filter,unlike ANY 'rider'.

My Legacy had the torq-tuff k92. Every 150 hours it got new fluid and a new FL-1A filter. Ran on my "jungle,fen, hilly backyard" for 20 years without fail. I pulled a car that ran off the road one year with it out of the ditch. A Garden tractor to its last days (DIVORCE took her from me). The troy built "garden tractor" sealed unit no need to change the fluid (LOL). I pulled a small section of log with it, blew the idler pulley, belt and 3 springs. When I went to find parts, No longer in production. I did finally fix it, but I traded it for my Kubota. The last couple of years, if it is belt driven, its not a garden tractor. That wasn't the case back in the day......
 

ken erickson

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Interesting topic and thread but It would be more meaningful for myself and perhaps others if we had a clearer definition of what a "garden" tractor is. The lines are blurred, probably by the advertising community between lawn tractors and garden tractors and what the heck is a lawn and garden tractor? :unsure:

My understanding and thoughts.

Riding mower = Typically a rear engine self propelled 4 wheel machine with a center mounted mowing deck designed to mow grass with little or no attachments available.

Lawn tractor = A front engine self propelled 4 wheel machine with center mounted mowing deck designed primarily for mowing grass and depending on HP , manufacture and size a few front mounted implements such as a plow or snowblower. Perhaps a rear mounted grass clipping collector.

Lawn and garden tractor =. ??????? lol.

Garden tractor = A front engine self propelled 4 wheel machine designed with ground engagement implements in mind. Either a 3 pt hitch or sleeve hitch. Able to pull a small single mold board plow, small tiller, disc or spring tooth cultivator. A center mowing deck normally sold as an option.

After all, what good would a tractor be in the garden if not able to prep soil for planting and then cultivate for weeds ect?


I do realize that many machines can be tricky to attach a name or class.

One in particular that comes to mind is the Simplicity Legacy XL. It can (could) be had with 4 wheel drive, limited cat one 3 pt hitch, Diesel engine. Available with mower deck, loader , snowblower etc etc. Is this machine a very well equipped garden tractor or a sub-compact tractor?
 

GrassLakeRon

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B8200HST-DP , RC60-82h Mower Deck, Woods RB6 Rear Blade, Homemade Carry All
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One in particular that comes to mind is the Simplicity Legacy XL. It can (could) be had with 4 wheel drive, limited cat one 3 pt hitch, Diesel engine. Available with mower deck, loader , snowblower etc etc. Is this machine a very well equipped garden tractor or a sub-compact tractor?
Sub-Compact..... Once you add a FEL, you kind of cross that line. My Legacy was 2wd and could take Cat 0 toys. Loaders, seem to me the line between the two.
 

ken erickson

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If you want to blur the lines even further.

Kubota calls their BX series tractors a sub-compact. I have not heard my B7100 referred to as anything but a compact tractor. A current model BX series is as heavy if not heavier, has higher 3 pt lift capabilities, more HP. Would you class a B7100 as a compact or sub-compact?

Getting back to what makes a garden tractor versus a lawn tractor is the ability to hook up in some fashion a ground engaging rear implement.
 

GrassLakeRon

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If you want to blur the lines even further.

Kubota calls their BX series tractors a sub-compact. I have not heard my B7100 referred to as anything but a compact tractor. A current model BX series is as heavy if not heavier, has higher 3 pt lift capabilities, more HP. Would you class a B7100 as a compact or sub-compact?

Getting back to what makes a garden tractor versus a lawn tractor is the ability to hook up in some fashion a ground engaging rear implement.
Did you see my last post on Tractor sizes over the years..... My B8200 is a scut/cut/utility all in one! Hardly... but based on the printed material it fits all 3. Here is my other post:

To put things another way: (taken from the Guide to Tractor Sizes - https://www.centralarkansasmahindra.com/blog/guide-to-tractor-sizes--29131)

Sub-Compact Tractors
Tractors are generally categorized by their engine horsepower, and sub-compact tractors are those that clock in under 25 horsepower. They tend to weigh between 500 and 1,200 lbs and measure less than 48” wide. The rear wheels of a sub-compact tractor are typically less than 30 inches in diameter.

Light-duty sub-compact tractors are ideal for making quick work of small jobs around the farm. They have the most agility of any tractor, allowing them to easily maneuver through narrow spaces. The sub-compact tractor offers low-cost maintenance on top of its affordable purchase price, making these the cheapest tractors out there.

Of course, sub-compact tractors have some natural drawbacks. They have the lowest hauling capacity of any tractor, and the most limited range of attachments. There are some implements available for sub-compact tractors, such as front-end loaders and backhoe attachments, but you’re not going to have anywhere near as many options as with larger tractors.

Compact Tractors
Tractors in this category have anywhere from 25 to 60 horsepower. They can weigh between 1,500 to 6,000 lbs, and may feature closed or open cabs. The width of a compact tractor ranges between 42 to 54 inches, while the rear wheel diameter can measure up to 36 inches.

Compact tractors are perhaps the most versatile category of tractor, offering the perfect balance of strength and agility. They offer similar maneuverability to sub-compact tractors, while their higher horsepower allows them to handle more heavy-duty tasks, like tilling and grading. They’re also compatible with a much wider range of attachments. Larger tractors in this category often come equipped with a turbocharger to boost engine performance for even greater versatility.

Utility Tractors
Tractors with 60 to 140 horsepower are known as utility tractors. These hefty pieces of equipment weigh over 3,000 lbs and measure 54 to 72 inches wide. The rear wheel of a utility tractor measures 36 to 60 inches in diameter.

So based on this set of guidelines my B8200 is all three.....which clearly it isn't. 19 hp / 1565 lbs / 55.3" wide / 38" tires. Or is it an Under powered over built beast?
 

ken erickson

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B7100 hst, 2650 front mount snowblower, L2501 hst qa loader
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IMHO this all highlights the discussion of your original post. Trying to keyhole a machine into a particular subjective class of machines can be difficult if not impossible! :) and prob does not serve much purpose in reality.

I am curious though to know what KEY features in your opinion differentiates a lawn tractor from a garden tractor?
 
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Heehaw

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I have a Ingersoll 4016 with 2800 hours on it, I bought it new back in 1996. It has a cat. 0 three point hitch with a set of hydraulic rear remotes, a 42” hydraulic tiller, 48” rear blade, 48” front blade and 48” front snow blower and a 48” mower deck. The thing is a beast, it’s amazing the amount of work this thing has done.
I did have to replace the B&S vanguard motor at 1600 hours but other than front wheel bearings and front axle bushing which are what I would consider normal wear items it’s been bulletproof.
 
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D2Cat

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In the information posted in post #32 there is reference to wheel diameter, and I think they are talking about tire diameter, huge difference.
 

GrassLakeRon

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IMHO this all highlights the discussion of your original post. Trying to keyhole a machine into a particular subjective class of machines can be difficult if not impossible! :) and prob does not serve much purpose in reality.

I am curious though to know what KEY features in your opinion differentiates a lawn tractor from a garden tractor?
In the 1990's it was shaft drive vs belt drive......
In the 1980's it was cast iron front axles and v-twin engines......
The 1970's seems to be the golden age of garden tractors...... My grandfather simplicity landlord was a garden tractor that was 10 hp belt drive.....

I guess it is all just marketing hype?
 

D2Cat

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I have a Ingersoll 4016 I bought new back in 1996. It has a cat. 0 three point hitch with a set of hydraulic rear remotes, a 42” hydraulic tiller, 48” rear blade, 48” front blade and 48” front snow blower. The thing is a beast, it’s amazing the amount of work this thing does.
I did have to replace the B&S vanguard motor at 1600 hours but other than front wheel bearings and front axle bushing which are what I would consider normal wear items it’s been bulletproof.
Those machines were scaled down tractors!!!
 

GrassLakeRon

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The Ingersoll 7020 was a SCUT....but called a garden tractor. The Simplicity Powermax 9020 was in the same boat. So then did we just evolved the garden tractor into the sub-compact ?
 

fried1765

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IMHO this all highlights the discussion of your original post. Trying to keyhole a machine into a particular subjective class of machines can be difficult if not impossible! :) and prob does not serve much purpose in reality.

I am curious though to know what KEY features in your opinion differentiates a lawn tractor from a garden tractor?
My dad bought a new Sears 15 HP Briggs powered "lawn tractor" in 1972.
I still have it, and it runs perfectly, though I do not use it.
It does not have a 3pt hitch.
Was marketed as mower (42") and snow blower only (I do not have blower).

I would love to sell it, because I have no need for it.
In fantastic condition for a 51 year old machine.
 

GrassLakeRon

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B8200HST-DP , RC60-82h Mower Deck, Woods RB6 Rear Blade, Homemade Carry All
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Grass Lake, Michigan
The question stands:

So then did we just evolved the garden tractor into the sub-compact ?