1980 L245DT hydraulic repair

[cummins90]

I'm attempting to get the FEL and 3 pt hydraulics to work. FEL will only move slightly with high revs, 3 pt wont move at all. New fluid, a clean filter screen, cleaned the pressure regulator under the seat, cleaned what I assume is the regulator on the FEL control.

I've installed a pressure gauge onto one of the 2 lines that feed the FEL control. At high revs I can only get 200psi not even enough to lift the bucket. With the regulator under the seat I can crank the engine and it shoots out a good stream of fluid.

Is there anything else I should do before pulling the pump?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

If the 2 regulators are working then the pump very likely to be an issue.
One other possibility would be a bad suction side leak

 

[TheOldHokie]

I'm attempting to get the FEL and 3 pt hydraulics to work. FEL will only move slightly with high revs, 3 pt wont move at all. New fluid, a clean filter screen, cleaned the pressure regulator under the seat, cleaned what I assume is the regulator on the FEL control.

I've installed a pressure gauge onto one of the 2 lines that feed the FEL control. At high revs I can only get 200psi not even enough to lift the bucket. With the regulator under the seat I can crank the engine and it shoots out a good stream of fluid.

Is there anything else I should do before pulling the pump?

View attachment 117534 View attachment 117535 View attachment 117536 View attachment 117537 View attachment 117538 View attachment 117539 View attachment 117540

I assume you are calling the pressure relief valves "regulators".?

The two hoses under the seat are a supply (pressure) and a return (no pressure). It looks like your tee is in the pressure side but I cant be sure. Have to check.the WSM to verify which is which.

First thing to check is pump outlet flow. Disconnect the supply hose frim the inlet port on the loader valve and stick the end of the hose in the oil filler on the tractor. Start the tractor - there should be a steady stream of oil coming out of that hose.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

I'm attempting to get the FEL and 3 pt hydraulics to work. FEL will only move slightly with high revs, 3 pt wont move at all. New fluid, a clean filter screen, cleaned the pressure regulator under the seat, cleaned what I assume is the regulator on the FEL control.

I've installed a pressure gauge onto one of the 2 lines that feed the FEL control. At high revs I can only get 200psi not even enough to lift the bucket. With the regulator under the seat I can crank the engine and it shoots out a good stream of fluid.

Is there anything else I should do before pulling the pump?

OK - I verified the outlet port is the one with the tee in it.

If you rune the flow test above and it looks good I would suggest a more direct measurement of pump discharge pressure before removing the pump. With your current test setup you have a lot of extra components in the circuit. To get a more direct measurement of discharge pressure do this:

1. Disconnect the pressure supply hose at the inlet port on the loader valve - see attached picture.
2. Connect your pressure gauge directly to the end of the hose.
3. Start the tractor and read pressure. Do not let the tractor run more than the few seconds it takes to get a pressure reading.
4. Remove gauge and reconnect hose

With the tractor running the gauge is showing you pump discharge pressure and the only other component in the circuit is the 3pt relief valve in the outlet block. You should be seeing close to 2000 PSI. If not either the relief valve is leaking or the pump is defective.

Dan

 

[cummins90]

Looks like good flow from the FEL feed. With the pressure reading directly on the inlet hose of the FEL psi is 1500.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Looks like good flow from the FEL feed. With the pressure reading directly on the inlet hose of the FEL psi is 1500. View attachment 117567 View attachment 117568

That pretty much exonerates the pump. You have more than enough pressure to operate the hydraulics. The pressure is a bit low which could be the pump, the relief valve, or both. Lets leave that for later.

So whats going on with the loader valve? Disconnect the rear most hose at the outlet block and test flow and pressure just like you did on the inlet side. You should see the same flow and pressure you saw on the inlet side.

Dan

 

[cummins90]

I believe the hose routing is correct

Block forward position to FEL in.
Block rear position from power beyond.
FEL out to case return.

I need to get the pressure reading from the power beyond line at the block rear position.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I believe the hose routing is correct

Block forward position to FEL in.
Block rear position from power beyond.
FEL out to case return.

I need to get the pressure reading from the power beyond line at the block rear position.

View attachment 117585 View attachment 117586

Yes.

Hose #1 is pump pressure from outlet block to loader valve. You measured that at 1600 PSI which is about 400 PSI low but still more than enough to operate the loader and 3pt.

Cant be positive but hose #2 looks like its the power beyond outlet from the loader valve and is used to return pressure to the 3pt. Check it for flow and pressure just like you checked the inlet side. If the loader valve is working properly you should get the same 1600 PSI.

If not the loader valve is not not holding inlet pressure. Most likely cause would be a defective inlet pressure relief in the loader valve allowing flow to bypass to tank via hose #3. That would kill lift at both the loader and the 3pt.

At this point the pump pressure looks good but loader valve still a big question mark. One step at a time....

Dan

 

[cummins90]

Good flow but absolutely no pressure out of the power beyond line (#2 in the pictures).

 

[TheOldHokie]

Good flow but absolutely no pressure out of the power beyond line (#2 in the pictures).

I am not too surprised. This is looking very much like the relief in the loader valve is holding almost no pressure.

Disconnect the supply line (#1) at the loader valve and loop it back to the return port on the outlet block and then test the 3pt. I will bet you dollars to donuts the 3pt works. BTW - I really like donuts

Dan

 

[cummins90]

I removed the FEL pressure relief and sure enough it's filthy. I can clean most of it but what's the trick to getting the 2 halves separated? Push down on the retaining wire and pull apart?

 

[TheOldHokie]

I removed the FEL pressure relief and sure enough it's filthy. I can clean most of it but what's the trick to getting the 2 halves separated? Push down on the retaining wire and pull apart? View attachment 117609

Not a clue. Those cartridges are not typically serviced. Clean it the best you can with solvents and shop air.

Did you try the loopback test?

Dan

 

[cummins90]

Loop back test done. 3 pt goes right up.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Loop back test done. 3 pt goes right up.

Okey- dokey - looks like we have found the culprit. Looking at that loader valve I know what I would be contemplating.

Dan

 

[cummins90]

I dunked it in gasoline and worked the valve with the set screw removed until all the filth was out. I put the set screw in the same amount of turns as it came out and reinstalled. All hydraulics work as they should.

Thank you for taking the time to walk me through the diagnostic process. I'm heating my house primarily with wood this winter and it'll be incredibly helpful.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I dunked it in gasoline and worked the valve with the set screw removed until all the filth was out. Put the set screw in the same amount of turns as it came out and reinstalled. All hydraulics work as they should.

Thank you for talking the time to walk me through the diagnostic process. I'm heating my house primarily with wood this winter and it'll be incredibly helpful.

You are more thakn welcome. Pretty easy problem to diagnose and the fix was very affordable You might want to consider buying a few shims for the 3pt relief and seeing if that relief is a bit weak as well.

If the shims dont get you any added pressure the pump is probably getting a bit worn and weak.

Dan

 

[cummins90]

I can replace the pump if needed. I pulled an exterior staircase today without any issues. Any specific place to get the shims? I did not measure them when I had the valve apart.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I can replace the pump if needed. I pulled an exterior staircase today without any issues. Any specific place to get the shims? I did not measure them when I had the valve apart.

Add some shims to your next order from your friendly Kubota dealer and see what it gets you. Its a cheap and easy experiment. At 1600 PSI you still have 80% of capacity.

Dan