Broken pinion shaft

Ktrim

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B2400, lA352 loader,3pth quick hitch/z122r zero turn/restored 52 farmall super a
Dec 23, 2020
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I had a bolt fall out of front axle holder on my b2400. This allowed the holder to spin which snapped the pinion shaft where it connects to the propeller shaft.
What is involved in changing this out and what should I order to replace other than the pinion itself?
I see on messicks.com diagram g11500 #20 ,collar, there is 10 different size options. How do I know which I'll need?
 

GreensvilleJay

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curious, I went to Kub Cda parts.. #020 items have posted sizes, so use digital caliper, set to mm, and measure then order THAT size.
 

Ktrim

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Dec 23, 2020
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curious, I went to Kub Cda parts.. #020 items have posted sizes, so use digital caliper, set to mm, and measure then order THAT size.
Ok so I guess I have to take apart prior to ordering. Was hoping to not tie up garage too long.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Yea the best way to deal with it, is to pull it apart and then you'll know what parts are damaged.
 
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pigdoc

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G1800S L2500
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After spending some time searching for front end gears (just in case) for my L2500, I found that most (if not all) Kubota drive pinions and ring gears are only sold in sets. Same is true for your B2400 ($323).

I've set up probably a dozen differentials in my past, and it's never a Good Idea to mix and match from different gear sets.

Getting the proper setup can be a bit tedious, especially if the bearing is pressed onto the drive pinion. Can't tell from the Parts Diagram. [If the bearing is pressed on, you need to make a "setup bearing" by taking a new bearing and 'ruining' it, by grinding some out of the ID, so that it will slip on and off the drive pinion to allow you to change collars or shims.]

As far as determining what "collar" you need, unless you have the special tools, it's done by trial and error.
Not every drive pinion is the same, due to machining variation. Some manufacturers mark the drive pinions in a way that allows you to calculate just how similar or different it is from what you had.

Very simply, the way you set up a differential is to make an educated guess and install the shims (or collar) that's close, and then use marking paint to check the gear mesh. If it's not perfect, you disassemble, use a different collar/shim, and try again.

Note that you have the same issue with the bevel gear that the pinion engages. When you change out a gear set, you're (usually) starting from scratch. Sometimes, you get lucky and find a donor gear set that has the same setup as yours. Generally, then, the gear mesh will be correct when you check it.

Kind of daunting to think about stocking all those collars, if you only intend to build one differential, because in the end, there's only one that provides the perfect setup.

I were you, before diving in, I would first exhaust all your options to buy a complete good rear from a parts tractor, still with the factory setup.

To determine my options when I was anticipating this challenge, I surveyed the Parts Catalogs to find all the Kubota tractor models that used the same gear set (yours is 6C040-97960), and use that info to widen your search for a used front axle to all the Kubota tractor models that used that gear set. Often, you can transplant all the parts from the donor axle (including collars/shims) and it will be very close to a good setup, but not always. If you're REALLY lucky, you might find a wrecked tractor with a broken housing that you can buy for cheap. I'm never averse to paying double scrap price for something like that, and scrap price is low-LOW right now.

Maybe all this stuff is not quite as critical in a differential that is not spinning at a high speed, generating all that friction...I dunno about that.

-Paul
 
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pigdoc

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G1800S L2500
Aug 19, 2022
279
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SE Pennsylvania
To address GreenvilleJay's comment, if the drive pinions (old and new) are marked, you can estimate the proper collar by comparing the markings on the old and new pinions.

For example, from my experience, if the old pinion is marked +2 and the new one is marked -2 (thousandths), the shim pack (or collar width) will need to change by 0.004".

But, until you get the new pinion in your hands to see the marking on it to compare to the marking on the old pinion, there's no way to determine which collar you'll need.

And, I don't even know that Kubota marks its drive pinions that way.

-Paul
 

GreensvilleJay

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Good news is this isn't a car going down the highway at 100MPH, so as long as the gears as 'close' to being properly shimmed, you should be 'ok'. To do it 'right', you'ld need two NEW gears,lots of pastigage,handful of shims and patience for the hour or two of fitup, test, try again.
Reality is you could just use one new gear, get it 'close' and it'd be fine for 50-60 years.....
 
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Ktrim

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B2400, lA352 loader,3pth quick hitch/z122r zero turn/restored 52 farmall super a
Dec 23, 2020
425
339
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Nazareth Pa
Took the axle out yesterday. Taking it apart today. I bought just the pinion set for now. Figure I'll start with the original collars and see where that puts me and adjust from there.
Truck rears are not a problem for me but this is going to be tedious indeed.
 
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pigdoc

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G1800S L2500
Aug 19, 2022
279
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SE Pennsylvania
Good news is this isn't a car going down the highway at 100MPH, so as long as the gears as 'close' to being properly shimmed, you should be 'ok'....Reality is you could just use one new gear, get it 'close' and it'd be fine for 50-60 years.....
Ya, I agree. That's what I was thinking, too. We all know how hot a center section can get after some hard use - almost too hot to hold your bare hand on. I would bet that for 'typical' tractor use, there's enough heat sink that it will barely get warm. BUT, if you're going to spend all day raking hay on steep ground, or something like that, I would expect the setup to be more critical.

lots of pastigage
Hmmm. Have never used plastigage for setting up diff gears. Do you put it between the gear teeth? I've always just grabbed the nearest can of latex house paint, and painted up 5 or 6 teeth in a row, on The ring gear. You don't really need to paint the pinion teeth, if you know how to interpret the pattern. But, the stuff that's made for marking gear teeth leaves a much more 'readable' pattern. You just need to see that the load is going to be centered on the teeth, front to back, top to bottom. Only two possible fails - either the pinion depth is wrong, or the horizontal plane that the ring gear is on is wrong.

But, ya, it's trial and error. Maybe you'll get lucky the first time!
Really interested in your report on how the setup goes, Ktrim!

Relevant story:
When I blew up the Dana 60 rear in my '77 Dodge truck (outer axle bearing failed and it got so hot that it melted the axle in two, also destroying retaining nut threads), I needed a new housing. I went to the junkyard and found the same axle in a '67 Dodge truck...with the same gear ratio (3.54:1)! I couldn't hand the owner the $100 bill he wanted for it fast enough.

When I got them torn down, I noticed that the drive pinions in both the blown axle and the donor axle were marked the same! So, I carefully swapped the FOUR shim packs (two on the carrier, two on the pinion), but just left the original '67 shim pack under the inner bearing on the donor pinion (did not press the bearing off), and swapped pinions. Re-used the Power-Lok carrier from the blown axle, after swapping in the donor ring gear and shim packs. Was mixing and matching inner pinion bearing and race, but they both looked good (and broken in). [20,000 miles down the road since then, no issues.]

Tightened everything down, applied marking paint, and it was NUTS on, first try! Quickest axle swap I ever did!

-Paul
 
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Ktrim

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Equipment
B2400, lA352 loader,3pth quick hitch/z122r zero turn/restored 52 farmall super a
Dec 23, 2020
425
339
63
Nazareth Pa
Ya, I agree. That's what I was thinking, too. We all know how hot a center section can get after some hard use - almost too hot to hold your bare hand on. I would bet that for 'typical' tractor use, there's enough heat sink that it will barely get warm. BUT, if you're going to spend all day raking hay on steep ground, or something like that, I would expect the setup to be more critical.



Hmmm. Have never used plastigage for setting up diff gears. Do you put it between the gear teeth? I've always just grabbed the nearest can of latex house paint, and painted up 5 or 6 teeth in a row, on The ring gear. You don't really need to paint the pinion teeth, if you know how to interpret the pattern. But, the stuff that's made for marking gear teeth leaves a much more 'readable' pattern. You just need to see that the load is going to be centered on the teeth, front to back, top to bottom. Only two possible fails - either the pinion depth is wrong, or the horizontal plane that the ring gear is on is wrong.

But, ya, it's trial and error. Maybe you'll get lucky the first time!
Really interested in your report on how the setup goes, Ktrim!

Relevant story:
When I blew up the Dana 60 rear in my '77 Dodge truck (outer axle bearing failed and it got so hot that it melted the axle in two, also destroying retaining nut threads), I needed a new housing. I went to the junkyard and found the same axle in a '67 Dodge truck...with the same gear ratio (3.54:1)! I couldn't hand the owner the $100 bill he wanted for it fast enough.

When I got them torn down, I noticed that the drive pinions in both the blown axle and the donor axle were marked the same! So, I carefully swapped the FOUR shim packs (two on the carrier, two on the pinion), but just left the original '67 shim pack under the inner bearing on the donor pinion (did not press the bearing off), and swapped pinions. Re-used the Power-Lok carrier from the blown axle, after swapping in the donor ring gear and shim packs. Was mixing and matching inner pinion bearing and race, but they both looked good (and broken in). [20,000 miles down the road since then, no issues.]

Tightened everything down, applied marking paint, and it was NUTS on, first try! Quickest axle swap I ever did!

-Paul
Didn't order bearings. Figured I would take apart and cross. Nationals from advance, with commercial account discount 3 times kubota. And napa skf almost 4 times kubota. Wtf???
 

Ktrim

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Equipment
B2400, lA352 loader,3pth quick hitch/z122r zero turn/restored 52 farmall super a
Dec 23, 2020
425
339
63
Nazareth Pa
Cleaned up tube and differential. Replaced bearings on differential and new bevel pinion gear. Did not do anything with diff gears. Reinstalled pinion shaft with factory collars. All is within spec. Tightened nut down so I have 34 lbs of turning torque. Everything nice and smooth with no noise.
 
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pigdoc

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G1800S L2500
Aug 19, 2022
279
209
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SE Pennsylvania
Good news!
Even so, it's probably a good idea to check the gear mesh pattern on the teeth with marking paint.

I have used a dial indicator placed against the face of a ring gear tooth to check the gear lash. I forget the specs for the diffs I was working on, but they are probably not applicable to your diff anyway...

I was struck by how similar the design of the 2000s L-series front differential is to the Chrysler 8-3/4". The system used to set up both diffs is very similar.

-Paul
 

Ktrim

Well-known member

Equipment
B2400, lA352 loader,3pth quick hitch/z122r zero turn/restored 52 farmall super a
Dec 23, 2020
425
339
63
Nazareth Pa
Good news!
Even so, it's probably a good idea to check the gear mesh pattern on the teeth with marking paint.

I have used a dial indicator placed against the face of a ring gear tooth to check the gear lash. I forget the specs for the diffs I was working on, but they are probably not applicable to your diff anyway...

I was struck by how similar the design of the 2000s L-series front differential is to the Chrysler 8-3/4". The system used to set up both diffs is very similar.

-Paul
 

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Ktrim

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B2400, lA352 loader,3pth quick hitch/z122r zero turn/restored 52 farmall super a
Dec 23, 2020
425
339
63
Nazareth Pa
This thing is so little and it slides down into the tube. No way to measure anything inside. Not going to worry about pattern. In 4wd only moving a few miles an hr.
 

DustyRusty

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I knew that there was a reason that I never wanted to learn how to do differentials. Thanks for reminding me what it is. I would rather pay someone else who does it all the time to do the setup for my 1962 Chevy than attempt it for myself. The local differential shop charges a flat $450 to do the setup on a positraction differential and doesn't care if you buy the parts from them or bring them the parts needed.
 
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