How to convert bh77 from power beyond to open center

Donystoy

Active member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
LX2610HSDCC, B/H, Loader, plus numerous other attachments. B7200 sold
Dec 10, 2013
566
217
43
Binbrook, Ontario
It's a fixed displacement pump - you are either getting it through the backhoe or you are unloading through the relief.

Dan
Exactly correct! these gear pumps are positive displacement so flow is determined by its design flow rate at a certain RPM. When I was sizing the pump for my home-built log splitter a year ago my math told me that the maximum GPM that I could put on my LX2610 with 19 HP PTO was around 11 GPM. The splitter works perfectly with this set up.

For the splitter I removed the PTO shield, installed a short extender on the PTO and hung the PTO pump on that. I am considering this same set up for the BH77. The tank would likely have to be installed under the seat area with the seat mounted on top of it. Additional cooling would likely have to be added.

Edit: I might add that I also made up a support bracket for the pump that reduces the pump weight on the PTO.
 
Last edited:

TheOldHokie

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
8,742
4,481
113
Myersville, MD
windyridgefarm.us
Exactly correct! these gear pumps are positive displacement so flow is determined by its design flow rate at a certain RPM. When I was sizing the pump for my home-built log splitter a year ago my math told me that the maximum GPM that I could put on my LX2610 with 19 HP PTO was around 11 GPM. The splitter works perfectly with this set up.

For the splitter I removed the PTO shield, installed a short extender on the PTO and hung the PTO pump on that. I am considering this same set up for the BH77. The tank would likely have to be installed under the seat area with the seat mounted on top of it. Additional cooling would likely have to be added.
Ĵust curious - what size hoses and couplers are used on the BH77?
 

torch

Well-known member

Equipment
B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
Jun 10, 2016
2,619
869
113
Muskoka, Ont.
Make sure the pump is rated for the mid-pto speed. I don't know about the B7800, but the B7100 mid PTO speed is about 4x higher than the rear.
 

TheOldHokie

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
8,742
4,481
113
Myersville, MD
windyridgefarm.us
Make sure the pump is rated for the mid-pto speed. I don't know about the B7800, but the B7100 mid PTO speed is about 4x higher than the rear.
Mid PTO speed is 2500 RPM @ 2478 engine RPM

Based on the 5/8 shaft size I would guess he is planning on a SAE A 2 bolt gear pump. Max speed of pumps in that displacement range is commonly 3600 RPM - e.g crankshaft speed on outdoor power equipment engines..
 

Henro

Well-known member

Equipment
B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini Ex., Beer fridge
May 24, 2019
5,781
2,965
113
North of Pittsburgh PA
The one problem with the b7800 was the fact it only had one hydraulic output. When I only had the loader mounted it was fine, once the backhoe was mounted everything slowed down. There is simply to much restriction in the system. Not only feeding the backhoe with flow but what’s worse is exhausting the extra fluid when cylinders are retracted. Yes the tractor pump is over 6gpm but I know I’m not getting it through the control valve.
I wasn’t entirely sure until I tried a friends l3901 with the his bh77 fed from a rear hydraulic output. It’s twice as fast and the cylinders run much cooler.
I’ve put a lot of thought and research into my plan of have a separate system just for the backhoe and then returning the loader circuit back to the stock plumbing.
Thank to everyone for the advise.
Late to the party, but I see you have a B7800, which for practical purposes is identical to my B2910.

I also see you are not the OP but the thread has moved in your direction.

Dan mentioned you are planning to use the mid PTO for the hydraulic pump to be powering the backhoe? I though the B7800 did not have a mid PTO.

Anyway, you might look at the backhoe that came standard with the B2910/7800. I have one. Uses a PTO pump. Is faster than I want at 2000 RPM. I usually run at 1800 RPM max and am happy with the speed.

Never an issue with heat or anything. I think if you would check the specs for the BL4690A backhoe you might get a starting point for what you need for the backhoe you are using. Granted you would need to compare cylinder size to get an idea of speed difference for a given flow rate.

Just seems to me that it is all about getting the correct flow rate for the speed you desire. Heat? From where I sit you must be super human if you are working at such speed to be heating your cylinders excessively on the backhoe with normal use.

I have used mine a lot over the years, and have no argument against anybody claiming I am abnormally slow...and therefore not generating much heat in the system...
 

TheOldHokie

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
8,742
4,481
113
Myersville, MD
windyridgefarm.us
Late to the party, but I see you have a B7800, which for practical purposes is identical to my B2910.

I also see you are not the OP but the thread has moved in your direction.

Dan mentioned you are planning to use the mid PTO for the hydraulic pump to be powering the backhoe? I though the B7800 did not have a mid PTO.

Anyway, you might look at the backhoe that came standard with the B2910/7800. I have one. Uses a PTO pump. Is faster than I want at 2000 RPM. I usually run at 1800 RPM max and am happy with the speed.

Never an issue with heat or anything. I think if you would check the specs for the BL4690A backhoe you might get a starting point for what you need for the backhoe you are using. Granted you would need to compare cylinder size to get an idea of speed difference for a given flow rate.

Just seems to me that it is all about getting the correct flow rate for the speed you desire. Heat? From where I sit you must be super human if you are working at such speed to be heating your cylinders excessively on the backhoe with normal use.

I have used mine a lot over the years, and have no argument against anybody claiming I am abnormally slow...and therefore not generating much heat in the system...
Care to share the specifications for the BL4690? I for one would be interested in cylinder sizes, pump flow @540 RPM, and reservoir size.

I think Bob's belief is the source of heat and slow response on his machine is flow restriction in the tractor side portion of the neutral circuit.

Dan
 

Henro

Well-known member

Equipment
B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini Ex., Beer fridge
May 24, 2019
5,781
2,965
113
North of Pittsburgh PA
Care to share the specifications for the BL4690? I for one would be interested in cylinder sizes, pump flow @540 RPM, and reservoir size.

I think Bob's belief is the source of heat and slow response on his machine is flow restriction in the tractor side portion of the neutral circuit.

Dan
Following is a link to the manual on the Bl4690A backhoe, I kind of doubt it will have any specifications in it as far as cylinder size and so on.

Wish I could do better, but I don’t have any specifics myself.

 

TheOldHokie

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
8,742
4,481
113
Myersville, MD
windyridgefarm.us
Following is a link to the manual on the Bl4690A backhoe, I kind of doubt it will have any specifications in it as far as cylinder size and so on.

Wish I could do better, but I don’t have any specifics myself.

I found the specifications.

The cylinders on the BL4690 are all 2.25 bore with 1.125 rods.

The cylinders on a BH77 are various sizes but all are larger than their counterparts. Boom and dipper stick are 2.8" bore with 1.4" rods. Thats almost 2X the volume of the BL4690 and going to need a higher flow. Also going to because lot stronger digger.
 
Last edited:

Henro

Well-known member

Equipment
B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini Ex., Beer fridge
May 24, 2019
5,781
2,965
113
North of Pittsburgh PA
I found the specifications.

The cylinders on the BL4690 are all 2.25 bore with 1.125 rods.

The cylinders on a BH77 are various sizes but all are larger than their counterparts. Boom and dipper stick are 2.8" bore with 1.4" rods. Thats almost 2X the volume of the BL4690 and going to need a higher flow. Also going to because lot stronger digger.
So if one would know the volume/rpm rating of the BX4690 PTO pump, and assumed my report was accurate, then if the person posting the question wanted to get pretty good performance, he would select a PTO pump that delivered about twice what the pump on my backhoe does...
 

TheOldHokie

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
8,742
4,481
113
Myersville, MD
windyridgefarm.us
So if one would know the volume/rpm rating of the BX4690 PTO pump, and assumed my report was accurate, then if the person posting the question wanted to get pretty good performance, he would select a PTO pump that delivered about twice what the pump on my backhoe does...
Well we know what the pump on an L3901 produces - biscuit short of 7 GPM. I think that's a pretty good base point. The L4701 produces about 1 GPM more and it comes with the bigger BH92 hoe.

Dan