Another Battery Change, Another Dead ECU

[cthomas]

Most of the ECUs and radios/displays have a core on them, the customer can pay the core value to receive the part, but usually the core is a few hundred dollars.

 

[fried1765]

But not a new ECU. That's just plain old owner unfriendly coding.

Dan

"Old owner" was Mercedes leasing.
Owners manual warns to not disconnect battery.

 

[GrizBota]

Here in Michigan, a "vehicle repair facility" does not have to give "certain parts" back, but only have to give you a chance to "inspect it".

I don't recall if ECU's or PCM's count or not.

I'm not sure if that applies to tractors, but I bet it's similar.

Intersting. I could follow that logic for warranty repair, but certainly not customer pay. If I owned the rig when it rolled in, I certainly owned every part of the vehicle, so unless there’s a core charge (hardly ever any more), I certainly own the old part and the new part I paid for. If they want to purchase the old part from me, I’d entertain that discussion.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

here in Ontario, you OWN 100% of YOUR vehicle INCLUDING $$$ cats. One shop got their proverbial butts hauled into court over keeping cats and making thousands every month.
All 'core charges' MUST be shown on invoices.

'they' can only keep what THEY exchange under some kind of warranty, again, that is written out

 

[RCW]

Most of the ECUs and radios/displays have a core on them, the customer can pay the core value to receive the part, but usually the core is a few hundred dollars.

@cthomas - -

I'm a decent novice, and a long time "tinker" guy.

You'd suggest keeping the battery cables free without contacting/grounding to other surfaces? Makes sense.

I think I've done so, but not for the reason at hand?!?! Better pay more attention...

This ECM/ECU/PCM issue is all new to me and has me kind of spooked.....

I don't carry jumper cables in my truck anymore because of some the implications.

Didn't realize a similar thing could happen by simply changing the battery.

Learn something new here everyday!

 

[Art V]

Ok, so I went out to my shed today and looked through the manual. No special process for changing, charging, or jumping the battery. I looked at my notes from the day it happened and I turned on the key, let the start check cycle run, tried to start and nothing. Turned the key off then back on and it didn't go trough the check cycle where all the dash lights came on but the gauges didn't move. The hour meter came on and started flashing between the hours and P0605. So whatever happened, happened before I hooked the tender up or changed the battery.

 

[ctfjr]

Former neighbor in the high country changed the battery in his JD. (don't know the model)
He momentarily reversed the plus & minus cables, fried the CPU.
$1800 if I remember correctly.

^^^^ this I understand

 

[jaxs]

Here in Michigan, a "vehicle repair facility" does not have to give "certain parts" back, but only have to give you a chance to "inspect it".

I don't recall if ECU's or PCM's count or not.

I'm not sure if that applies to tractors, but I bet it's similar.

Something lobbyists accomplished for their employers.

 

[Art V]

I am going tomorrow to dig a little deeper into what all they did to come to their conclusion. My thinking is there might be other reasons why the laptop wouldn't communicate with it, wiring issue, etc.

UPDATE!!!
I went and talked to the tech at the dealer that had my tractor, and lets just say I didn't get a warm, fuzzy feeling since I seemed to know more about it than he did. He told me they could call Kubota about it but they wouldn't do anything about it. So I told them I couldn't afford $5200 right now and had them bring it back.
In the meantime, I call another dealership ,told them the situation, and the service manager began to tell me all the possible reasons why their laptop may not communicate with the ECU, pretty much everything I found online, including here( Thank You Guys).
They picked it up two weeks ago. They called me last Friday and told me the ECU is bad and they had called Kubota and there is a service bulletin out about premature ECU failures on several models.
I just got a call a little while ago letting me know that my tractor is up and running and Kubota is covering it as a warranty claim, so all I owe is $150 for pickup and delivery! Not bad for 200 miles round trip, considering the other place charged me $120 for 60 miles.
So if you have this issue, insist they call Kubota and mention the service bulletin. I will try to get SB number and post here.

Shawn

 

[edritchey]

UPDATE!!!
I went and talked to the tech at the dealer that had my tractor, and lets just say I didn't get a warm, fuzzy feeling since I seemed to know more about it than he did. He told me they could call Kubota about it but they wouldn't do anything about it. So I told them I couldn't afford $5200 right now and had them bring it back.
In the meantime, I call another dealership ,told them the situation, and the service manager began to tell me all the possible reasons why their laptop may not communicate with the ECU, pretty much everything I found online, including here( Thank You Guys).
They picked it up two weeks ago. They called me last Friday and told me the ECU is bad and they had called Kubota and there is a service bulletin out about premature ECU failures on several models.
I just got a call a little while ago letting me know that my tractor is up and running and Kubota is covering it as a warranty claim, so all I owe is $150 for pickup and delivery! Not bad for 200 miles round trip, considering the other place charged me $120 for 60 miles.
So if you have this issue, insist they call Kubota and mention the service bulletin. I will try to get SB number and post here.

Shawn

That's good to hear

 

[Lil Foot]

 

[Nicksacco]

That's it! I don't trust dealers anymore


Seriously, good for you @Art V

 

[D2Cat]

You came out good and discovered the value of a second opinion!

 

[jimh406]

Congrats on the lower cost fix. A shame that you still have to pay for the ECU work, but better that the money is less!

There really isn't any reason that a tractor ECU should be so prone to failure except for a manufacturing/design defect. There shouldn't be anything that dissimilar to an automobile ECU which rarely fail.

I guess you found your repair dealer that is pretty good, so congrats to that as well.

 

[fried1765]

That's it! I don't trust dealers anymore


Seriously, good for you @Art V

DITTO !

 

[will721]

That's it! I don't trust dealers anymore


Seriously, good for you @Art V

Never have, never will. I started off in the automotive industry working for a gm dealer. Couldn't stomach the way they operated so I bailed out. Since then I perform my own repairs on everything. Even my own home. I've watched as people get screwed over even by reputable shops. Seen friends nearly get raked over the coals by shops claiming parts were bad that weren't. Had one tell a buddy he needed balljoints on a truck with new ball joints. (It was there to get aligned after a bunch of new front end work). I've got two vehicles with air bag recalls I've been putting off taking in because I know they'll just screw up my interior.

Although recently I did give it another try. Took the wifes truck in for a clunking noise in the front and new transmission lines. Went to one of the most reputable shops in the area. $400 later still have the same noise and they didn't even install the transmission lines. Gotta love it.

 

[jaxs]

I'll soon make my 80th trip around the sun and where I noticed the change was when the bar was lowered for those that lagged behind in life. After one segment of society adopted the stratagy,others followed until it became the norm to write off deficiencies and short falls. The Texas Att General used to have a task force specifically to punish dishonest retail stores and repair shops. After receiving enough complaints a secret shopper was sent to merchant or shop. Cars were gone over by master mechanics to asertain there was no problem other than one caused intentionally before taking car to repair shop. Depending on their report the business was warned,fined or prosecuted. The practice was labeled entrapment and banned. In response to annual uptick in armed robbery between Thanksgiving and Christmas Dallas County announced that undercover officers armed with sawed off shotguns would be assigned to locations at risk. Two robbers arrested,one injured and one killed all but eliminated armed robberies following years.,squad quitly eliminated. A none uniformed off duty officer attemted to arrest a robber during a hold up and robber was killed. Courts held it to be unneccessary use of deadly force,robberies increased but squad wasn't reinstalled for obvious reason so it went back to old ways.
I'm sure other factors contribute but I think bar lowering played a role.

 

[whitetiger]

The Technical Service Bulletin is TSB-2023-035-E-R1.

FIX AS FAIL EXTENSION: L, M, MX-Series; Engine ECU Malfunction Preventing Machine Start

Product Line: L, M, MX-Series Model: L3301, L3560, L3901, L4060, L47, L4701, L4760, L5060, L5460, L6060, M62, MX4800, MX5200, MX5800

Issue: The engine may fail to start and DTC code P0605 or P0606 may appear. Solution: If DTC P0605 is present, replace the engine ECU with the updated engine ECU in the chart below for your unit per the Workshop Manual and carry out a manual DPF regeneration per the Diagnosis Manual. If only DTC P0606 is present, update the ECU Software to the latest software per the chart below for your unit and clear the DTC codes.

Warranty: 8 Years from retail date (for this specific failure only)

 

[PaulL]

Somewhere I read a theory about German engineering v's Japanese engineering. Seemingly Germans build machines (cars) assuming people will follow the instructions. Often they won't work when things are out of spec. Japanese build cars assuming people are stupid, and in general they'll work when things are well out of spec.

I always feel that about my Kubota, it's pretty bulletproof. I absolutely wouldn't expect reversing battery terminals or shorting a cable when changing the battery to break something. Because that's an entirely predictable thing that would happen, and that you could easily test for.

Whereas, our VW Touareg has the battery under the front passenger seat. The electric front passenger seat. Guess what you can't do when the battery dies.....I decided battery replacement was a dealer job. Of course, it's a great machine other than that. 4L V8 diesel. Pulls whatever we want.

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

Change the harness. The whole darn thing.
Changing a battery should not ever fry the ECM, PCM, ECU, whatever... The Computer.

Never, Ever. It's a serious short in the harness.