Doubtful repairs under warranty

[Grumpyjoe]

For the second time my Kubota BX25D-LBH failed and went to the dealer for repairs. The first time was in the middle of Covid which delayed things months. This time I was suspiscious so I documented things well. I opened the rear access plate to see the PTO damage. I took lots of photos and looked up all the known damaged parts before calling in the claim. Since all the fluid leaked out I saw no harm and no one has questioned me doing this. The dealer sold out to a larger Kubota group but many of the employees were the same.

So, I called in the claim and dropped off the tractor. My claims representative immediately went on vacation and all was on hold for a week or so. THen when she came back the dealer did not submit their documentation and photos. We are now 3 weeks in with nothing done. Then parts were ordered. Each tuesday I would call in and be told more parts were ordered and it would be another week. In the it took 6 weeks exactly. I pick it up and the next day put it to work. The dealer refused again to give me a copy of what parts were replaced and what was repaired. I took a photo of their paperwork when he had his back turned. Good thing too.

The last time the dealer replaced the transfe case I found several missing and loose bolts. The frame was missing bolts!!!!! This time I was cautious but still some linkage turned up loose right away. I tightened up what I could find and continued. Within 2 hours of use the transfer case( Transmission) locked up. I did a quick video showing how it would not move then called the dealer. Of course they agreed to take it back for more repairs, but really?

So now as I wait again I started looking at what parts they ordered and what I thought needed replacing. I knew the PTO broke loose for some reason, I assumed it was me using the StumpGrinder. I did check the slip clutch on the grinder, but it was loose that it should not have been the problem. We will see later. What was amazing to find is what case they ordered. Many parts interchange between models. Some are very specific too. In my case, with a BXD-25LBH, the rear components are heavier because of the backhoe. This was the main reason I chose the BX25D-LBH over the standard BX25D. I could have used a 3 point Backhoe, but the frame and transmission had too many failures Kubota was refusing some warranties. Homework is important. The dealer ordered case K2581-11014 inplace of K2581-11019. Beside the cost difference of almost $1000 the K2581-11014 is not compatible with the BX25D-LBH. The K2581-11019 can be used on either model but is specified for the LBH model.

I cannot see what the actual difference is since I cannot do a side by side comparrison. I have to trust Kubota Engineers and their parts diagrams.

My warranty expires in January 2024. I dodged a bullet on this bill, but now I have to wonder what other discounted parts have they used? I have over 40 years of wrenching on everything from Nuclear Reactors to lawn mowers. I may not be the best mechanic out there, but I am damn good. The only reason I did not do this repair was because of the $1400 case and a few other parts totalling over $2000.

I wonder if anyone else has documented similar issues? Without getting a parts listing it is hard to know what parts might be wrong just so the dealer can save a buck. Worst yet would be if some desk jockey made the choice in which parts can be used down grading the durability of the tractor.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Parts are dependent on serial number not Model number!
And that fancy upgraded case (which it's not any different strength wise), yea it's cheaper.
So very unlikely they swapped case numbers just to save a buck.

BX25D

BX25DLB

BX25DLB-1

 

[Grumpyjoe]

Parts are dependent on serial number not Model number!
And that fancy upgraded case (which it's not any different strength wise), yea it's cheaper.
So very unlikely they swapped case numbers just to save a buck.

View attachment 113427

BX25D

View attachment 113428

BX25DLB

View attachment 113429

BX25DLB-1

View attachment 113430

There is a reason for the case to have more than double the cost. Here it shows the application for each case. The upgraded case is priced at $1450 where the standard case is at $550. Do you seriously think there is little difference between the two? It is the reason I chose the LBH model. Parts for the engine are based on serial number but the model "BX25DLB" and serial#376501 only tells the model and series of the tractor. Parts for all but the engine are by model as tin and plastic parts vary by model.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

There is a reason for the case to have more than double the cost. Here it shows the application for each case. The upgraded case is priced at $1450 where the standard case is at $550. Do you seriously think there is little difference between the two? It is the reason I chose the LBH model. Parts for the engine are based on serial number but the model "BX25DLB" and serial#376501 only tells the model and series of the tractor. Parts for all but the engine are by model as tin and plastic parts vary by model.

View attachment 113431 View attachment 113432

I don't know where your getting the serial number from because that isn't it, Kubota serial numbers are only 5 digits not 6?

The parts for the entire tractor are most definitely based on the tractors serial number!

I also don't know where your getting your prices from as I listed both cases from the most common supplier of parts and they do not show a $500 difference in the 2 cases????

I listed the parts prints for both and they look the same to me.

 

[Grumpyjoe]

I don't know where your getting the serial number from because that isn't it, Kubota serial numbers are only 5 digits not 6?

The parts for the entire tractor are most definitely based on the tractors serial number!

I also don't know where your getting your prices from as I listed both cases from the most common supplier of parts and they do not show a $500 difference in the 2 cases????

I listed the parts prints for both and they look the same to me.

Lets just argue because we think we are better. Most of this post was done on my phone. THere are typos li serial number. drop the "0" and that is the serial number. The company that gave me a quote on K2581-11014 read this post and told me about my typos and that he was offering a used case. He left that out of our talk. What is the point of this post is the dealer repaired the transmission twice and twice the result was loose parts and continued problems. THe first with loose bolts and leaks the second also loose bolts but the transmission siezed. Why they used the wrong parts or even if they used new parts can never be proven as the copies of the billing sent to me from the insurance group KTAC show different part numbers and prices. Both also include repairs not specified.

You seem to like a good arguement. I am too old to deal with your type. Rather than be of help with my problem you want to be a spelling, grammar and tech police. Have a blast. THe good thing is you are way over in Idaho and I am way over in Missouri. Enjoy your day. May you find many petty fights to destroy every peaceful minute of your day. I know now I will not get a reasonable responce from anyone else as Wolfman Karen has distracted the post to start a fight.

Post what you want. I will not return here for anything else.

 

[MountainMeadows]

Bob's yer Uncle.............

 

[Tropical Jack]

I wonder why you’re “Grumpyjoe”?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

WOW,,, I've now been called a KAREN!
He still has an invalid serial number and I have a hard time giving good advice when I don't have proper information!

 

[PaulL]

I think he interpreted your "how stupid are they, the part they substituted wasn't even cheaper anyway" as a suggestion that he wasn't right to be concerned that they put a different part number on than what he originally had. It was a pretty good tantrum though for a relatively mild comment.

In a sense I think you're both right. He's annoyed they did a poor job on his tractor. That's fair. And they substituted a part and now that part's broken, so that's also something to be annoyed about.

Conversely, you're just saying that the two parts he's looking at actually look to be interchangeable, which may be OK.

Anyway, serial number I interpret is serial#37651 (i.e. drop the zero)

 

[Trimley]

Meanwhile little Ole me sits back in the shadows following along. Or trying too

 

[The Evil Twin]

WOW,,, I've now been called a KAREN!
He still has an invalid serial number and I have a hard time giving good advice when I don't have proper information!

I'm still trying to figure out where it was you came across argumentative.
Gotta say, I might have to call you NIK from here on out. North Idaho Karen......kinda has a ring to it.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I'm a little late to the party, buts just the same......

 

[D2Cat]

In your representation I think he is the one in the chair! He has no dog in the fight, only trying to help someone who doesn't get the importance of knowing all the information to get the correct parts.

 

[RBsingl]

Reminds me of a sign I saw in the local IH dealership growing up, "You give us the almost correct part number and we will give you the almost correct part"

Rodger

 

[fried1765]

Reminds me of a sign I saw in the local IH dealership growing up, "You give us the almost correct part number and we will give you the almost correct part"

Rodger

LOVE IT !!!!

 

[D2Cat]

"Remember the quality of your question directly affects the quality of your answer."

 

[Geezer3d]

If you can't trust your dealer's service department, then it's time to switch dealers.

 

[lugbolt]

For the second time my Kubota BX25D-LBH failed and went to the dealer for repairs. The first time was in the middle of Covid which delayed things months. This time I was suspiscious so I documented things well. I opened the rear access plate to see the PTO damage. I took lots of photos and looked up all the known damaged parts before calling in the claim. Since all the fluid leaked out I saw no harm and no one has questioned me doing this. The dealer sold out to a larger Kubota group but many of the employees were the same.

So, I called in the claim and dropped off the tractor. My claims representative immediately went on vacation and all was on hold for a week or so. THen when she came back the dealer did not submit their documentation and photos. We are now 3 weeks in with nothing done. Then parts were ordered. Each tuesday I would call in and be told more parts were ordered and it would be another week. In the it took 6 weeks exactly. I pick it up and the next day put it to work. The dealer refused again to give me a copy of what parts were replaced and what was repaired. I took a photo of their paperwork when he had his back turned. Good thing too.

The last time the dealer replaced the transfe case I found several missing and loose bolts. The frame was missing bolts!!!!! This time I was cautious but still some linkage turned up loose right away. I tightened up what I could find and continued. Within 2 hours of use the transfer case( Transmission) locked up. I did a quick video showing how it would not move then called the dealer. Of course they agreed to take it back for more repairs, but really?

So now as I wait again I started looking at what parts they ordered and what I thought needed replacing. I knew the PTO broke loose for some reason, I assumed it was me using the StumpGrinder. I did check the slip clutch on the grinder, but it was loose that it should not have been the problem. We will see later. What was amazing to find is what case they ordered. Many parts interchange between models. Some are very specific too. In my case, with a BXD-25LBH, the rear components are heavier because of the backhoe. This was the main reason I chose the BX25D-LBH over the standard BX25D. I could have used a 3 point Backhoe, but the frame and transmission had too many failures Kubota was refusing some warranties. Homework is important. The dealer ordered case K2581-11014 inplace of K2581-11019. Beside the cost difference of almost $1000 the K2581-11014 is not compatible with the BX25D-LBH. The K2581-11019 can be used on either model but is specified for the LBH model.

I cannot see what the actual difference is since I cannot do a side by side comparrison. I have to trust Kubota Engineers and their parts diagrams.

My warranty expires in January 2024. I dodged a bullet on this bill, but now I have to wonder what other discounted parts have they used? I have over 40 years of wrenching on everything from Nuclear Reactors to lawn mowers. I may not be the best mechanic out there, but I am damn good. The only reason I did not do this repair was because of the $1400 case and a few other parts totalling over $2000.

I wonder if anyone else has documented similar issues? Without getting a parts listing it is hard to know what parts might be wrong just so the dealer can save a buck. Worst yet would be if some desk jockey made the choice in which parts can be used down grading the durability of the tractor.

Grump

Sounds like the dealer I used to work for. Almost exactly. It didn't have to be that way but the general manager sells tractors. He couldn't care less about fixing tractors and it shows in the shop guys' burnout, high turnover, etc. Lots of that going on. Also a lot of disorganization.

Do you have another dealer close by?

 

[Grumpyjoe]

Despite Coyote Karen in the end it seems to be working out well. I took the tractor to the parent shop with more mechanics than employees at the first shop. The first shop drained the oil and claimed the failure was a wear issue as there was brass in the oil. Before going 95 miles out of my way I checked out the damage externally. All 5 shafts turn freely, input both axles and both PTOs. When the Differential Lock is engaged in 2 of the 4 possible lock positions the axles freeze and the other 2 will not engage. I pulled the magnetic filter out to look for metal shavings. Nope brass is not metalic. I did fing a lot of metal on the screen.

When I explained this to the shop manager he agreed there was something more than a worn part causing the failure, The mechanic started tear down Friday at 9AM and by 5PM they still were not ready to talk about the failure. I take this as a good sign. I am sure the mess inside was pretty bad and more than what a 1 hour of use would cause without help. Bad news is most likely there is another complete rebuild coming and I will be without a tractor for a while. 2 months is a long time not to have a tractor with 11 acres. Things are really getting ugly but cool weather slows the growth down too.

As for the wrong case. My model has only has one case left to use due to the change in inventory. Early on there were 2 options and yes the serial number determined which case was used, but when the old case ran out all went to the newer model. Using current application charts and current knowledge of what your tractor needs is more important than having a history of old drawings. Messicks keeps current on most parts and the application drawings. Best part is Messicks is almost a one stop shopping location for most tractors. Everything I have on my farm they carry replacement parts or refer me to great independant dealers to help out.

If you think you are not getting the right service, be as factual as you can. Explain what you see and know. If they cannot tell you why that is not true they may not be the shop you need. I am not out of the woods yet, but the folks in Springdale stepped up and listened, then agreed there is more to the problem. In the end I am sure we all will find out it was a mistake that caused the failure. Fix it and be done.

 

[fried1765]

Despite Coyote Karen in the end it seems to be working out well. I took the tractor to the parent shop with more mechanics than employees at the first shop. The first shop drained the oil and claimed the failure was a wear issue as there was brass in the oil. Before going 95 miles out of my way I checked out the damage externally. All 5 shafts turn freely, input both axles and both PTOs. When the Differential Lock is engaged in 2 of the 4 possible lock positions the axles freeze and the other 2 will not engage. I pulled the magnetic filter out to look for metal shavings. Nope brass is not metalic. I did fing a lot of metal on the screen.

When I explained this to the shop manager he agreed there was something more than a worn part causing the failure, The mechanic started tear down Friday at 9AM and by 5PM they still were not ready to talk about the failure. I take this as a good sign. I am sure the mess inside was pretty bad and more than what a 1 hour of use would cause without help. Bad news is most likely there is another complete rebuild coming and I will be without a tractor for a while. 2 months is a long time not to have a tractor with 11 acres. Things are really getting ugly but cool weather slows the growth down too.

As for the wrong case. My model has only has one case left to use due to the change in inventory. Early on there were 2 options and yes the serial number determined which case was used, but when the old case ran out all went to the newer model. Using current application charts and current knowledge of what your tractor needs is more important than having a history of old drawings. Messicks keeps current on most parts and the application drawings. Best part is Messicks is almost a one stop shopping location for most tractors. Everything I have on my farm they carry replacement parts or refer me to great independant dealers to help out.

If you think you are not getting the right service, be as factual as you can. Explain what you see and know. If they cannot tell you why that is not true they may not be the shop you need. I am not out of the woods yet, but the folks in Springdale stepped up and listened, then agreed there is more to the problem. In the end I am sure we all will find out it was a mistake that caused the failure. Fix it and be done.

Waiting with anticipation........for a happy ending to the story.