Lots of white smoke when starting

[KubotaTech]

The B3200 had some problems early on with white smoking. They say you have to flow time the injection pump which is not a tough procedure but its a little difficult because the timing marks are made to view when the engine is out of the tractor. If you get it to a dealer they should have no problem with it. DO NOT just remove a shim thinking it will fix it, there are several different thickness shims that could possibly be under the pump in a variety of different combinations. The vibration issue was addressed by installing the updated thicker rubber mat on the floor- not really a fix but helps a little. The glow plugs are operated by holding the key in the glow position. It is a 12v glowplug system. Not sure what the manual says but I wouldnt think 10 sec would hurt.

 

[kc8fbl]

I'm thinking it may be injection pump timing. Here's a video before adjustment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hSWKtgIDhE

It looks like it smokes a little more than your tractor is.

Here's the video after the adjustment. This isn't my tractor, but good knowledge. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYCPWNCsiUU

Just realized they are two different tractors, but same complaint. Hope this helps out.

 

[bosshogg]

I'm thinking it may be injection pump timing. Here's a video before adjustment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hSWKtgIDhE

It looks like it smokes a little more than your tractor is.

Here's the video after the adjustment. This isn't my tractor, but good knowledge. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYCPWNCsiUU

Just realized they are two different tractors, but same complaint. Hope this helps out.

Those videos are worth their weight in gold! Now...why are dealers trying to claim the smoking, missing is normal? Not good for the dealers, Kubota, or owners.

 

[Wild and Free]

The smoke is one issue but from what I saw and heard in the OP's video it has issues because it should not be popping or missing like it appeared to sound like. If it was the smoke alone I would go with the consensus of being "normal" but with the missing and popping, that is being caused by a different issue be it timing or bad injector.

 

[rparkinson]

On this model you cant do that because it will kill the engine- like the old ones there was a manual knob that killed the fuel... where these are a elec solenoid.. I think... maybe it wont kill the engine if it does not go all the way back on the key. I will try that-

 

[kuboman]

On this model you cant do that because it will kill the engine- like the old ones there was a manual knob that killed the fuel... where these are a elec solenoid.. I think... maybe it wont kill the engine if it does not go all the way back on the key. I will try that-

Actually on the b3200 you can reglow after it has started. Just turn turn the key to the right one position to activate the GP's.

 

[Wild and Free]

On My B2150 key switch when turned clockwise to the right is off- ignition on- glow plug and then start to the far clockwisse position. When I start mine I glow plug it for about 30 seconds and when it starts I only let off to the glowplug position and continue to GP it for several seconds until it cleans up and idles smooth then I let up to the run position. It helps it clean up about 2-3 times faster by continuing the GP at initial start up.

 

[motorhead]

I can give personal experience having worked on indirect injected diesels like the Kubota since 1980. Be careful thinking that you can't hurt running the glow plugs too long. That isn't so. They can melt the tips off or swell from over heat making them near impossible to remove. I worked on many IDI VW diesels that had stuck glow plugs from the relay being stuck or someone that had OTHER starting issues and thought that "MORE was BETTER" when it came to glow plug usage. The new style pencil glow plugs used on these engines should NOT be engaged for more than 30 seconds or less. Pull one out sometime, hook it up to 12 volts and see how bright yellow it gets in a short time.
Fix the "BASE" starting issue, meaning check all other parameters also, injection timing, faulty injector, fuel system leak down(air in the system), any compression issues, water in fuel issues and proper valve adjustment. I guarantee if all of these are within factory specifications then the engine will start normally within its low starting temperature threshold.

Hopefully when the original poster of this issue gets his tractor fixed, He will get the BEFORE and AFTER timing specs from the dealer and share them here.
My $0.02 on this issue

 

[rparkinson]

Ok I will have to eat crow here, I had to go check my B3300SU. You are right, you can glow the plugs with it running. Ha should have kept my mouth shut!! But yeah motorhead you are def right. I work on VW's for a living and the plugs in the 99.5 and up TDI's can be a problem. It is not uncommon for them to break, and when they do it sucks.

 

[motorhead]

Ok I will have to eat crow here, I had to go check my B3300SU. You are right, you can glow the plugs with it running. Ha should have kept my mouth shut!! But yeah motorhead you are def right. I work on VW's for a living and the plugs in the 99.5 and up TDI's can be a problem. It is not uncommon for them to break, and when they do it sucks.

We bought a new 2012 Jetta sportwagen TDI and with only 350 miles #4 glow plug went kaput. Until we bought the new JSW, My glow plug experience was with the older non turbo VW diesels and Turbo and non turbo Mercedes. Kubota also

 

[Frank minarchi]

Well just got back from my dealer.and sure enough it was a injection timing issue.We first checked the timing and it was 18TBC. which they state for that tractor is right. BUT AFTER the mechanic ED looked into it some more he found a posting that the tractor should be adjusted to14-15.75 before TDC.so by doing this we retard the timing by adding a shim and brought it to 15TBC and there is no more missing or farting on start up and when i just attached the snowblower and had it screaming to me the vibration came down also.SO i would let your dealer know if u have this issue because there will be a work shop manual posting in the future for this issue. Thanks to the boys at camrose dynamic for looking after this issue and not giving up. Frank

 

[rparkinson]

Thanks for posting Frank. I think I am going to call my dealer about my B3300SU monday. Mine does not sound as extreme as your case, but it is not right.

 

[motorhead]

Well just got back from my dealer.and sure enough it was a injection timing issue.We first checked the timing and it was 18TBC. which they state for that tractor is right. BUT AFTER the mechanic ED looked into it some more he found a posting that the tractor should be adjusted to14-15.75 before TDC.so by doing this we retard the timing by adding a shim and brought it to 15TBC and there is no more missing or farting on start up and when i just attached the snowblower and had it screaming to me the vibration came down also.SO i would let your dealer know if u have this issue because there will be a work shop manual posting in the future for this issue. Thanks to the boys at camrose dynamic for looking after this issue and not giving up. Frank

Frank, THANKS for getting the specs that they set yours to. The B7800 is set to about that. I was going to retard mine. There is a chart that shows which shim changes the timing so many degrees.
Do you know if the mechanic used the FLOW method or was he able to use a timing light that is driven by a sender that hooks to the #1 injector?

 

[bobkeyes]

Well, I sure did learn something from this thread. I learned how to use the glow plugs on my BX 2200! Somewhere I got the impression that when you turned on the switch and could hear the fuel pump clicking the glows were on. Man, how stupid. On days like today, about 20F, it started, but lots of smoke and chugging until it warmed up. Reading this thread I thought maybe I had the same problem. BUT, looking closely at my switch I saw the glow setting. I held it in the glow for 5 sec. Starts immediately, no smoke, no chugging. What a novice I am. But, I still enjoy my tractor.

 

[Frank minarchi]

Motorhead he used the flow method from the #1 injector and as fuel just came out he checked the markings.

 

[motorhead]

Thanks Frank. I have Snap-on jig that clamps around the injector line at the union at the injector. I am going to check it both ways and record any differential.

 

[eserv]

Motorhead he used the flow method from the #1 injector and as fuel just came out he checked the markings.

You have to watch very carefully for the fuel to start rising from the delivery valve. I'll be interested too, in the comparative accuracy of the " spill" timing vs a timing light!
I'm anxious to hear how your tractor works tomorrow morning when it truly is a "cold' Start, Frank!. Always before I have advanced the timing to correct rough running, this time we retarded it about 2 degree's, guess we'll see how it works out!
Ed

 

[eserv]

Frank, THANKS for getting the specs that they set yours to. The B7800 is set to about that. I was going to retard mine. There is a chart that shows which shim changes the timing so many degrees.
Do you know if the mechanic used the FLOW method or was he able to use a timing light that is driven by a sender that hooks to the #1 injector?

On the B engine 0.05 shim changes timing 1/2 degree. on Franks tractor I took a 0.15 shim out and installed a 0.35 shim, total change was 0.20 or about 2 degrees. If you retard it too much it will run rough at full throttle. The B engines don't have any advance so the timing is a compromise between good low speed and acceptable high speed operation. (all measurements are in mm
Ed

 

[motorhead]

Thanks ED for the shim info. I will post when I do mine. I will check it BOTH ways. May be a while as mine doesn't have the cold starting issue. I am going after the vibration issue. Do you have any other insight on the vibration issues with the B3200?

 

[eserv]

Thanks ED for the shim info. I will post when I do mine. I will check it BOTH ways. May be a while as mine doesn't have the cold starting issue. I am going after the vibration issue. Do you have any other insight on the vibration issues with the B3200?

No, I have no more insight except an observation that Kubota 3 cylinder engines run smoother than their 4 cylinders. ( and the 5 cylinders are the smoothest of all!)