Sidekick RTV-XG850 backfiring / loss of power

mikester

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Equipment
M59 TLB
Oct 21, 2017
3,560
2,030
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Canada
www.divergentstuff.ca
Probably would have had better service from some Chinese off brand at half the price.
Ha ha LMAO. Good luck with that tail light warranty, chinese importer's service ends when the cheque has cleared.

Hint - chinese suppliers to companies like wallymart will ship more product than ordered because it's cheaper than implementing a quality control program and testing random samples. The consumer does the defect detection and the reseller just does product swaps until the buyer gives up in frustration waiting in return lineups.
 
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Sidekick

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Equipment
Kioti CK2620SE cab, RTV-X, BX2360, Z726XKW-3-60
Jul 29, 2023
559
504
93
N.Y,
Ha ha LMAO. Good luck with that tail light warranty, chinese importer's service ends when the cheque has cleared.

Hint - chinese suppliers to companies like wallymart will ship more product than ordered because it's cheaper than implementing a quality control program and testing random samples. The consumer does the defect detection and the reseller just does product swaps until the buyer gives up in frustration waiting in return lineups.
Just like Kubota handles the warranty.
 

mikester

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Equipment
M59 TLB
Oct 21, 2017
3,560
2,030
113
Canada
www.divergentstuff.ca
Just like Kubota handles the warranty.
Sounds to me like you've had conversations with the dealership and Kubota. Vehicle has been in for service. Unfortunately not getting results you would want.

Good luck even getting even an initial response from your chinese overlords, never mind parts or service.

I'd trade it in at this point if I ended up with a lemon. Somebody will want my business.
 
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GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
11,436
4,914
113
Greensville,Ontario,Canada
re: backfiring

I've always associated backfiring to 'timing'. You say it idles OK, just when you ask for high revs, it falters. What actually controls 'timing'. On 'old sckool' engines it was the key in the crankshaft/flywheel. Slightly 'bent' key will though off timing. Are both plugs clean and light tan colour? If so, not oil fouling and losing power.
Since yours is fuelinjected 'something' has to control 'timing'. Does it have a 'crankshaft position sensor' ? Without seeing diagrams of 'how -it-works', long distance diagnosis is a wee bit tricky perhaps impossible.
Have you surfed the web looking for same engine problem ? Not just the machine, the engine model.
 

Sidekick

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Equipment
Kioti CK2620SE cab, RTV-X, BX2360, Z726XKW-3-60
Jul 29, 2023
559
504
93
N.Y,
Sounds to me like you've had conversations with the dealership and Kubota. Vehicle has been in for service. Unfortunately not getting results you would want.

Good luck even getting even an initial response from your chinese overlords, never mind parts or service.

I'd trade it in at this point if I ended up with a lemon. Somebody will want my business.
At this point it does sound like a pandemic built lemon that Kubota doesn't want to put parts in. Surprised Kubota isn't working with my dealer to make it right. It has been in the shop over 6 weeks now so looks like it qualifies for the NY farm equipment lemon law. I have so much in it that I really just want it fixed. Dealer actually said the same thing about trading it if Kubota doesn't have a solution but the only Kubota options he has that they haven't had trouble with are diesel. I have to tell you that I have found Chinese support to be very fast and aggressive lately. They don't let things like this drag on as they are fighting for market position knowing problems spread like wildfire on social media. The metallurgy is equal to USA made products now when you get in upper price ranges like this.
 
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Sidekick

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Equipment
Kioti CK2620SE cab, RTV-X, BX2360, Z726XKW-3-60
Jul 29, 2023
559
504
93
N.Y,
re: backfiring

I've always associated backfiring to 'timing'. You say it idles OK, just when you ask for high revs, it falters. What actually controls 'timing'. On 'old sckool' engines it was the key in the crankshaft/flywheel. Slightly 'bent' key will though off timing. Are both plugs clean and light tan colour? If so, not oil fouling and losing power.
Since yours is fuelinjected 'something' has to control 'timing'. Does it have a 'crankshaft position sensor' ? Without seeing diagrams of 'how -it-works', long distance diagnosis is a wee bit tricky perhaps impossible.
Have you surfed the web looking for same engine problem ? Not just the machine, the engine model.
I was told mine doesn't have a camshaft sensor. The new one the dealer just got has one the mechanic told me.
 
Last edited:

lugbolt

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Equipment
ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
5,214
1,899
113
Mid, South, USA
Sounds to me like you've had conversations with the dealership and Kubota. Vehicle has been in for service. Unfortunately not getting results you would want.

Good luck even getting even an initial response from your chinese overlords, never mind parts or service.

I'd trade it in at this point if I ended up with a lemon. Somebody will want my business.

Dealt with kubota warranty department for decades. It is a challenge. Their "system" really needs some fixing in order for it to work seamlessly and easily. When I left the business in 2020 it was neither. Far from it. Did Deere for a few years too and theirs was dirt simple in comparison. Now doing Polaris and it is so simple that it's stupid.
 
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GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
11,436
4,914
113
Greensville,Ontario,Canada
OK, if it doesn't have a CPS then HOW does 'timing' get created ?
real curious about this....
 
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Siesta Sundance

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L305DT, MX 5200, SVL 75-2, (Sold M7060))
Oct 23, 2022
1,555
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113
78125
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At this point it does sound like a pandemic built lemon that Kubota doesn't want to put parts in. Surprised Kubota isn't working with my dealer to make it right. It has been in the shop over 6 weeks now so looks like it qualifies for the NY farm equipment lemon law. I have so much in it that I really just want it fixed. Dealer actually said the same thing about trading it if Kubota doesn't have a solution but the only Kubota options he has that they haven't had trouble with are diesel. I have to tell you that I have found Chinese support to be very fast and aggressive lately. They don't let things like this drag on as they are fighting for market position knowing problems spread like wildfire on social media. The metallurgy is equal to USA made products now when you get in upper price ranges like this.
My Kubota salesman told me to avoid buying one, he said numerous models are plague with problems. So I bought something different, based on his recommendations.
 
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Sidekick

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Equipment
Kioti CK2620SE cab, RTV-X, BX2360, Z726XKW-3-60
Jul 29, 2023
559
504
93
N.Y,
OK, if it doesn't have a CPS then HOW does 'timing' get created ?
real curious about this....
I'm sorry I am talking about the cam position sensor they told me was just added that mine doesn't have. Has to have some type of crankshaft trigger.
 

mikester

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Equipment
M59 TLB
Oct 21, 2017
3,560
2,030
113
Canada
www.divergentstuff.ca
Dealt with kubota warranty department for decades. It is a challenge. Their "system" really needs some fixing in order for it to work seamlessly and easily. When I left the business in 2020 it was neither. Far from it. Did Deere for a few years too and theirs was dirt simple in comparison. Now doing Polaris and it is so simple that it's stupid.
Dealing with warranty issues can be challenging anywhere, especially these days. I've had issues getting warranty service Yamaha, GM, Honda, Toyota,...

I think Siesta Sundance has it right on the money. Try to buy a machine/vehicle with a good reputation and proven service record. Avoid new model years to let them get the kinks worked out.

A manufacturer that offers a 3 year vs a 1 year warranty would also indicate confidence in their product reliability.
 
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Sidekick

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Equipment
Kioti CK2620SE cab, RTV-X, BX2360, Z726XKW-3-60
Jul 29, 2023
559
504
93
N.Y,
Dealing with warranty issues can be challenging anywhere, especially these days. I've had issues getting warranty service Yamaha, GM, Honda, Toyota,...

I think Siesta Sundance has it right on the money. Try to buy a machine/vehicle with a good reputation and proven service record. Avoid new model years to let them get the kinks worked out.

A manufacturer that offers a 3 year vs a 1 year warranty would also indicate confidence in their product reliability.
I should have been suspicious when all the videos I could find about it were made or controlled by Kubota and also free vehicles they gave out for videos. Another week and still nothing. Going to be 2 months in the shop soon and no resolution.
 
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lugbolt

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Equipment
ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
5,214
1,899
113
Mid, South, USA
OK, if it doesn't have a CPS then HOW does 'timing' get created ?
real curious about this....
it has a crankshaft sensor. Flywheel has teeth on it, with one missing. When crank sensor sees the missing tooth, it knows that it's at TDC. Since it's a 180 degree crankshaft, every half rotation of the crankshaft is counted by the ECU (ECU knows how many teeth on the flywheel, so if it's 60-1, which means 60 teeth but missing one, for a total of 59, at 30 teeth it's at BDC, then 30 more teeth it's at TDC again, etc). No cam sensor is needed. Kubota calls it a "revolution sensor" in their Jinglish language. In calling it that, most techs would recognize it as a RPM signal only, but in fact it's a crank position sensor.
 
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matt850

New member

Equipment
Kubota sidekick
Jun 13, 2023
4
2
3
pa
I won't disagree with em being subpar, but we also have to understand that they had to pass government emissions testing. IF they were running pig rich to the point where they're always fouling spark plugs and such, they wouldn't have passed testing. That doesn't mean that they aren't having issues later on out in the field, but what are those issues? I'm out of the kubota dealer loop but I'm sure interested in what's going on with these things.

The sidekick was an afterthought in so many ways, which I pointed out a bunch of them the day we got the first one.
So a quick update to my Kubota cutting out at random times at 20 to 30. The sun kinda change position and now I can read the display when the engine cuts out. I see the gear selector read out on the display magically go from drive to revers so the engine freaks out and cuts spark and as soon as it happens it goes back to drive and I continue as normal. So it's not going to be a hard fix I just need to know if and where the microswitch is that is giving range info to the digital display and computer. ANY GUESSES?
 

lugbolt

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Equipment
ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
5,214
1,899
113
Mid, South, USA
it's got a switch, I don't remember exactly where it's at. Also look at the wiring while you're in there. Just bvecause the meter is showing incorrectly and intermittently, doesn't necessarily mean the switch itself is bad. A cut or chafed wire can do the same things. Going through it now on a L3901HST OPC system issue.
 

catalyst

Member

Equipment
BX80, RTV-XG850
Sep 30, 2018
70
29
18
St. Clair
I should have been suspicious when all the videos I could find about it were made or controlled by Kubota and also free vehicles they gave out for videos. Another week and still nothing. Going to be 2 months in the shop soon and no resolution.
any updates on your situation?
 

Sidekick

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Equipment
Kioti CK2620SE cab, RTV-X, BX2360, Z726XKW-3-60
Jul 29, 2023
559
504
93
N.Y,
any updates on your situation?
Just got it back today (10 weeks). Kubota finally had the oil samples evaluated and is concerned about the amount of fuel in the crankcase oil. Not concerned about all the water that is normal with them though. They replaced the injectors and want me to run it another 10 hours than get another sample. They think it may be from me not running it hard enough and long enough but maybe the new injectors will help. If it's still a problem in 10 hours Kubota will have to decide what's next as the warranty claim just states it must be run harder. That isn't something they said up front when you buy one. All the contamination seemed to happen in a couple hours over last winter so we will see. It took them 9 weeks to finally have the oil analyzed and 10 weeks for this answer so I am sorry I went with the Kubota now and definitely won't recommend one for around a farmstead. My friend bought a Ranger for the exact same use a month before I got the sidekick and no contamination or problems at all yet so now I eat crow for telling him he should have bought a Sidekick.
 
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Siesta Sundance

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L305DT, MX 5200, SVL 75-2, (Sold M7060))
Oct 23, 2022
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78125
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Just got it back today (10 weeks). Kubota finally had the oil samples evaluated and is concerned about the amount of fuel in the crankcase oil. Not concerned about all the water that is normal with them though. They replaced the injectors and want me to run it another 10 hours than get another sample. They think it may be from me not running it hard enough and long enough but maybe the new injectors will help. If it's still a problem in 10 hours Kubota will have to decide what's next as the warranty claim just states it must be run harder. That isn't something they said up front when you buy one. All the contamination seemed to happen in a couple hours over last winter so we will see. It took them 9 weeks to finally have the oil analyzed and 10 weeks for this answer so I am sorry I went with the Kubota now and definitely won't recommend one for around a farmstead. My friend bought a Ranger for the exact same use a month before I got the sidekick and no contamination or problems at all yet so now I eat crow for telling him he should have bought a Sidekick.
Fuel and/or water into crankcase oil is not caused by injectors.... I call BS on their response.

Run the dog piss out of it, get a new motor.
 
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lugbolt

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ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
5,214
1,899
113
Mid, South, USA
that engine is not a low speed torque engine, it's designed to run-and they do run well. Idling and lots of low speed running will contaminate the crankcase with fuel and water. That's normal if it's never allowed to get up to any appreciable oil temp, which is very very common on stop-and-go, and lots of idle time. The Kawasaki Mule single and V-twin's are notorious for this as those engines are lawn mower engines, that are designed to run 3500 RPM at 75%-100% load all the time. In that application the oil temp rises high enough to "boil" off contaminants. In the Mule application, it idles-and most of the time rarely reaches operating temp at all, so they make oil and the people who actually check their oil level start crying because it's got a blowed head gasket.
 

Sidekick

Well-known member

Equipment
Kioti CK2620SE cab, RTV-X, BX2360, Z726XKW-3-60
Jul 29, 2023
559
504
93
N.Y,
that engine is not a low speed torque engine, it's designed to run-and they do run well. Idling and lots of low speed running will contaminate the crankcase with fuel and water. That's normal if it's never allowed to get up to any appreciable oil temp, which is very very common on stop-and-go, and lots of idle time. The Kawasaki Mule single and V-twin's are notorious for this as those engines are lawn mower engines, that are designed to run 3500 RPM at 75%-100% load all the time. In that application the oil temp rises high enough to "boil" off contaminants. In the Mule application, it idles-and most of the time rarely reaches operating temp at all, so they make oil and the people who actually check their oil level start crying because it's got a blowed head gasket.
This is a Kubota, not cheap Mule and sold as a worksite model that won't see a lot of wide open throttle. I have never had a problem like this with a piece of machinery and definitely thought Kubota would state something like not for homestead use in the sales literature if that is the case with the Subaru engine. Like I said a friend bought a Polaris 1000 with the exact same use and no problems so it's definitely not a problem for all manufacturers. I definitely made a mistake buying the sidekick and hopefully others will have this knowledge about the Sidekick before making the same mistake as I did.