If you think the powers that be can't stay out of your fuel containers, wait till you need to replace a common two valve shower set. I wasted an hour Friday and much of the day today trying to find a quality replacement for a failed set. Yes, I can find some junk at the big box stores but nothing remotely like the American Standard I had. After visiting plumbing supply houses, surfing the cloud and calling around I finally ordered one from Chicago. The issue is that codes now dictate that the set has temperature control to keep idiots from scalding themselves, that pretty much dictates single handle control. Yeah, I want to destroy my wall to accommodate the new-fangled junk, then waste twice as much water till it gets warm.
Gas cans now shower valves
- Thread starter lynnmor
- Start date
Biker1mike
Well-known member
Equipment
B6200, Kubota 2030 Front Blade, King Cutter 60" finishing deck
Interesting. How does it control the temperature? I had the bath redone a few years ago. Single handle control and the hot is very hot. I actually lowered the water heater since we do cold water in the washer and the straight hot water was too high for comfort.
You might have one made before the code nonsense. The temperature controlled ones have a type of thermostat that limits the flow of hot water as needed. It is “legal” to replace or repair those that are grandfathered in, but suppliers have stopped producing the parts that don’t meet the current BS.
One of the last projects the company did before I retired was a dorm building. The showers were done with equipment exactly as specified and there were a lot of problems with the "safe" shower valves.
They had "wax motors" that were supposed to control the temperature of the water by modulating the valves. Guess how that went
They had "wax motors" that were supposed to control the temperature of the water by modulating the valves. Guess how that went
jyoutz
Well-known member
Equipment
MX6000 HST open station, FEL, 6’ cutter, forks, 8’ rear blade, 7’ cultivator
Interesting. We did a shower remodel in May, and the Delta valves I bought at a plumbing supply house weren’t temperature controlled.
IIRC, the installation at the college dorm was with Powers/Watts e420 or something very similar. I looked them up tonight and below is some info. Interesting stuff. The wax motor is a bit like a small hydraulic cylinder run by expansion and contraction of the wax that modulates the hot/cold water as it mixes.
The literature refers to the wax motors as the "wax element" in one place and on the parts list #23 is the "thermal actuator". The link to the supply house has a good picture of the wax motor. We were the unlucky recipients of a bunch of valves that had a bad run of wax motors. The wax leaked out, disabling the valve's ability to regulate the mixed water temperature.
Not sure where they got that name, because it wouldn't be something most of us would consider a motor. It's kinda reminiscent of the old Zamac nail-in anchors. No wires to it.
Valve:
Wax Motor:
www.plumbmaster.com
The literature refers to the wax motors as the "wax element" in one place and on the parts list #23 is the "thermal actuator". The link to the supply house has a good picture of the wax motor. We were the unlucky recipients of a bunch of valves that had a bad run of wax motors. The wax leaked out, disabling the valve's ability to regulate the mixed water temperature.
Not sure where they got that name, because it wouldn't be something most of us would consider a motor. It's kinda reminiscent of the old Zamac nail-in anchors. No wires to it.
Valve:
Wax Motor:
Powers 420-453 Powers 420-453 Standard Wax Motor Kit for Model 1 - 10 Powers Valves, Bath and Shower Faucets
We carry a complete line of plumbing products including the Powers 420-453 Wax Motor Kit for Powers Valves.
www.plumbmaster.com
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
hmm 'wax motor' sounds like old skool thermostat that every cat,truck and tractor has !!!
Ontario Building Code demands those fancy valves but you can adjust them, if hot isn't hot enough or vice versa. In my case I'd have to tear out the tile and drywall the 'contractor' used to gain access to it though.
Ontario Building Code demands those fancy valves but you can adjust them, if hot isn't hot enough or vice versa. In my case I'd have to tear out the tile and drywall the 'contractor' used to gain access to it though.
TheOldHokie
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
I live in Maryland and just remodeled two 30 year old showers so I have been through this in detail. I used American Standard mixing valves and fixtures.
US code requires the valves have an adjustable temperature limit that controls the maximum water temperature you can get out. It is a scald protection issue and mine are set way higher than the upper limt specified by code. It's a crude approximation to begin with and you can easily change it to suit your preference after the valve is installed and inspected. You just remove the trim to access the adjusting collar.
Thermostatic temperature controlled mixing valves are a pricey convenience feature you can opt for but they are not required by code. They vary the mix based on a built in thermostat. Some are even WIFI controlled - remote start for your shower.
Pressure balanced temperature controlled mixing valves are a convenience feature you can opt for but they are not required by code. Basically you set the temperature manuslly and the valve automagically adjusts hot and cold water volume. based on changes in supply pressure. I opted for this feature in both showers and no longer get the sudden cold shower when my wife starts the dishwasher or scalded when she flushes a toilet.
Dan
Last edited:
AFAIK Central Faucet Co still makes 2 handle shower valves. In addition there are companies that make 'goof plates' that cover the 8" on center valve holes for use with a single handle code valve.
The anti-scald code isn't just a bad thing. It's not just protecting 'idiots' from themselves. Some older people, people with disabilities, children, etc have all been severely scalded in the past.
BTW the wax 'heat motor' has been used for decades in the Taco zone valve. A coil of wire is wrapped around a wax filled cylinder with a piston in it. The electric current heats up the wire / cylinder that causes the wax to expand and drive the piston. The valve at the end of the pistion then opens.
The anti-scald code isn't just a bad thing. It's not just protecting 'idiots' from themselves. Some older people, people with disabilities, children, etc have all been severely scalded in the past.
BTW the wax 'heat motor' has been used for decades in the Taco zone valve. A coil of wire is wrapped around a wax filled cylinder with a piston in it. The electric current heats up the wire / cylinder that causes the wax to expand and drive the piston. The valve at the end of the pistion then opens.
When we had this home built, we went higher end Moen fixtures. They do not have the anti-scald feature. However, code dictated there had to be mixing valves installed separately. We got the plumber to install a single 10gpm thermostatic mixing valve on the branch line that goes to all the bathrooms and kitchen sink.
Guess where that mixing valve is now. It was in the same terrible boating accident where I lost all my firearms.
Guess where that mixing valve is now. It was in the same terrible boating accident where I lost all my firearms.
I built my own home 48 years ago and used all American Standard fixtures. Now the shower valves finally were eaten thru by my acidic water and there is no repairing them. All I want and need is something like I have so I did some searching and ordered one. These control freaks need to leave me alone, they weren't there helping me build the house
TheOldHokie
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Whew - 42 years. You just barely got in after the control freaks mandated grounding outlets. That would have caused some serious angst.....
Dan
And that there is another thing, I want to add some wiring but I can’t find knob and tube anywhere.
Added a bathroom to the home in 1992, and the fixtures came with a "lifetime" warranty. The problem is that American Standard says that the "lifetime" warranty started a month after the fixtures were invoiced. That is because they invoiced the fixtures, and then placed the order for them which took a few months to get since they were polished brass. Needed a ceramic valve insert, but it is discontinued. I finally found one on eBay and fixed the faucet. When they were still available, I got a bunch of replacement parts, however, when I checked the parts that they sent against the model number, I found that I had all the wrong parts for my faucets. In 1983 when we built the home, the initial faucets were Moen, and I can still get parts for those faucets. They also have a lifetime warranty and they will send me parts when I call. Same with the Delta kitchen faucet, free service packages are available with just a telephone call. Every few years when it starts to drip, I put a new service kit into it. Takes about 1/2 hour after I find the kit and tools.