L4701 backhoe and 3rd function problems

Pine

New member

Equipment
L4701
Aug 24, 2023
10
3
3
Ca
Hello all, new poster here.

Bought a brand new l4701, fel, b92 a few months ago. Also had the dealer install a 3rd function for the grapple they sold me.

Been having trouble with my b92 backhoe burning out valves. It's at the shop now for the 3rd time for this issue. Kubota says my 3rd function is burning out the valves and I will need to disconnect my back hoe when using the grapple...?

Is this normal?

Any help is greatly appreciated :)
 

fried1765

Well-known member

Equipment
Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Nov 14, 2019
7,842
5,065
113
Eastham, Ma
Hello all, new poster here.

Bought a brand new l4701, fel, b92 a few months ago. Also had the dealer install a 3rd function for the grapple they sold me.

Been having trouble with my b92 backhoe burning out valves. It's at the shop now for the 3rd time for this issue. Kubota says my 3rd function is burning out the valves and I will need to disconnect my back hoe when using the grapple...?

Is this normal?

Any help is greatly appreciated :)
What valves?
Are you serious ??
 

Pine

New member

Equipment
L4701
Aug 24, 2023
10
3
3
Ca
The valves for the backhoe, they get really stiff to the point I can't use a certain function. I've had outrigger valve replace, bucket in, boom out...
 

Pine

New member

Equipment
L4701
Aug 24, 2023
10
3
3
Ca
The last valve that went bad was boom out. While operating the tractor I can start to hear pressure building up from the backhoe. When I reach back and jiggle that function it will go away for a while...
 

Pine

New member

Equipment
L4701
Aug 24, 2023
10
3
3
Ca
Oh sorry, I meant to say disconnect the hyd line to the hoe
 

TheOldHokie

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windyridgefarm.us
Hello all, new poster here.

Bought a brand new l4701, fel, b92 a few months ago. Also had the dealer install a 3rd function for the grapple they sold me.

Been having trouble with my b92 backhoe burning out valves. It's at the shop now for the 3rd time for this issue. Kubota says my 3rd function is burning out the valves and I will need to disconnect my back hoe when using the grapple...?

Is this normal?

Any help is greatly appreciated :)
I think somebody is blowing smoke up your nether parts. Sounds more like the plumbing has been botched. The third function valve should be installed ahead of the backhoe. In the case of an L4701 that would be just after the loader valve and ahead of any remotes. It could also he installed between the outlet block and the loader valve. IT CANNOT BE INSTALLED IN THE BACKHOE RETURN LINE. If they plumbed it in after the backhoe it WILL back pressure the tank return line on the backhoe valve which can potentially damage the backhoe valve. Damaged seals in the backhoe valve is the usual result and that sounds suspiciosly like what you are experiencing.

Kubota is quite clear on this - ALL auxiliary valves need to be ahead of the backhoe.

Dan
 
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lugbolt

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ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
5,195
1,882
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Mid, South, USA
Dan beat me to it.

It sounds like the plumber either didn't follow directions or they followed directions that were inadequate. The latter, is very easy to do with Kubota as they're written in japanese, then translated to Engrish. They need to re-write the destructions, and pay a working American to write it, step-by-step. Then the majority of techs might actually read and understand it. Unfortunately that's not likely as kubota is a japanese company and I would wager a bet that they pay an outside company to write the books for em. I know yamaha does (Crestec IIRC used to do theirs), and Yamaha's manuals aren't much better.

I don't do kubota. I'm in the Polaris business now. Their manuals ROCK! But Polaris is an American company. I did Deere for a number of years, and theirs were also well-written for the most part. I do a lot of Ford stuff at the house (cars/trucks) and any manuals that I have that came from FoMoCo are the same way, very easy to follow and understand for us working folks.
 
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TheOldHokie

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Dan beat me to it.

It sounds like the plumber either didn't follow directions or they followed directions that were inadequate. The latter, is very easy to do with Kubota as they're written in japanese, then translated to Engrish. They need to re-write the destructions, and pay a working American to write it, step-by-step. Then the majority of techs might actually read and understand it. Unfortunately that's not likely as kubota is a japanese company and I would wager a bet that they pay an outside company to write the books for em. I know yamaha does (Crestec IIRC used to do theirs), and Yamaha's manuals aren't much better.

I don't do kubota. I'm in the Polaris business now. Their manuals ROCK! But Polaris is an American company. I did Deere for a number of years, and theirs were also well-written for the most part. I do a lot of Ford stuff at the house (cars/trucks) and any manuals that I have that came from FoMoCo are the same way, very easy to follow and understand for us working folks.
My proposed diagnosis is based on remote analysis of repeated hydraulic failures. It relies on nothing more than basic hydraulic knowledge and a passing familiarity with Kubota's design practices. I dont need the machine or the installation documentation to arrive at that diagnosis.

This is the third occurence so something is clearly wrong. The technician doing the work cant see the pattern, diagnose the apparent cause, and correct the order of the valves. Service department management appears to be equally clueless and the explanation they hsve given to the customer is nonsense.

That leads me to believe they all lack a basic understanding of the simple open center hydraulic circuit they were tasked with configuring and installing.

If that is truly the case then that entire service department is bad, really bad, and they need more than better written installation guides.

Dan
 
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Pine

New member

Equipment
L4701
Aug 24, 2023
10
3
3
Ca
Thank you so much guys, gives me some ammo when I call them back today👍
 

TheOldHokie

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Thank you so much guys, gives me some ammo when I call them back today👍
Please don't tell them I said they were incompetent although that's my suspicion. Hang on and I will send you diagram of the correct plumbing. Did you get factory remotes with that tractor?

Dan
 
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Pine

New member

Equipment
L4701
Aug 24, 2023
10
3
3
Ca
No worries Dan, I wouldn't say that, I'm not gonna get mad or anything.

I don't have rear remotes.
 

Pine

New member

Equipment
L4701
Aug 24, 2023
10
3
3
Ca
Well sounds like it was installed on the back end. Tech was good about it all and they are going to look at it and try to correct it all.

I have to say overall I'm very impressed with this dealer, amazing customer service.

Thanks for all the help here, appreciate it 😁
 

TheOldHokie

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Well sounds like it was installed on the back end. Tech was good about it all and they are going to look at it and try to correct it all.

I have to say overall I'm very impressed with this dealer, amazing customer service.

Thanks for all the help here, appreciate it 😁
I would be impressed if they told you they F'd it up big time subjecting your new backhoe valve to damaging back pressures. And since they can't say for sure that it has not been compromised beyond what they have already seen they are going to replace it with an all new unit. My guess is that isn't going to happen.

Dan
 
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Pine

New member

Equipment
L4701
Aug 24, 2023
10
3
3
Ca
They said they were going to replace the entire bank of valves. I imagine that's when kubota stepped in and they came up with unplugging the hoe Hyd line, being it was the 3rd time....

Was there anything else other then that valve bank that could have been damaged?
 

TheOldHokie

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They said they were going to replace the entire bank of valves. I imagine that's when kubota stepped in and they came up with unplugging the hoe Hyd line, being it was the 3rd time....

Was there anything else other then that valve bank that could have been damaged?
The backhoe valve is the only thing in danger of damage. Messick wants $3562 for a new one so it would not break the bank for a dealer and even less so for Kubota.

Dan
 

lugbolt

Well-known member

Equipment
ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
5,195
1,882
113
Mid, South, USA
My proposed diagnosis is based on remote analysis of repeated hydraulic failures. It relies on nothing more than basic hydraulic knowledge and a passing familiarity with Kubota's design practices. I dont need the machine or the installation documentation to arrive at that diagnosis.

This is the third occurence so something is clearly wrong. The technician doing the work cant see the pattern, diagnose the apparent cause, and correct the order of the valves. Service department management appears to be equally clueless and the explanation they hsve given to the customer is nonsense.

That leads me to believe they all lack a basic understanding of the simple open center hydraulic circuit they were tasked with configuring and installing.

If that is truly the case then that entire service department is bad, really bad, and they need more than better written installation guides.

Dan

Dan I'm going to elaborate somewhat.

You and I agree that a basic knowledge of Kubota's systems are needed. Unfortunately, they hire whatever they can, and often they don't stick around long enough to learn anything, so a lot of techs (at least in this area) are, well, clueless. A thankless dirty hot and cold job that pays pennies on the dollar, and I'm understanding that the local dealer has cut the pay of the shop guys because "they can't afford to pay them". Sad!! And I know they can afford to, based on what I know (but not going there right now).

Secondly Kubota training. They're still sending techs across the country for training which is pretty expensive in itself, both for the dealer, the tech, and for Kubota. Not all techs go, and there are reasons why, beyond what I've already outlined. I was forced to go. The downside....they put you in a class that is at an engineering level, which had nothing to do with real-world experience. If I wanted to engineer the hydraulic system on tractors, it'd have been a good class. But we, techs, were totally lost--all 46 of us. Nobody learned anything other than it was the longest most grueling 6 DAYS of at least my career. Waste of time, money, resources. If they're gonna take "training" that far, there needs to be a degree involved, and a significant pay increase because, like my neighbor, there are way better paying jobs out there the require the same level of training. In his case, less. He works on medical equipment, specialises in hydraulics. Makes about $145,000 a year doing it. At Kubota dealer, I made under $50k and was the highest paid tech in the entire 13 store chain (partly because I had been in that business for 30 years).

They "should" absolutley know their way around them but the reality is that often they don't. Unfortunate.
 

TheOldHokie

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L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
8,604
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Myersville, MD
windyridgefarm.us
Dan I'm going to elaborate somewhat.

You and I agree that a basic knowledge of Kubota's systems are needed. Unfortunately, they hire whatever they can, and often they don't stick around long enough to learn anything, so a lot of techs (at least in this area) are, well, clueless. A thankless dirty hot and cold job that pays pennies on the dollar, and I'm understanding that the local dealer has cut the pay of the shop guys because "they can't afford to pay them". Sad!! And I know they can afford to, based on what I know (but not going there right now).

Secondly Kubota training. They're still sending techs across the country for training which is pretty expensive in itself, both for the dealer, the tech, and for Kubota. Not all techs go, and there are reasons why, beyond what I've already outlined. I was forced to go. The downside....they put you in a class that is at an engineering level, which had nothing to do with real-world experience. If I wanted to engineer the hydraulic system on tractors, it'd have been a good class. But we, techs, were totally lost--all 46 of us. Nobody learned anything other than it was the longest most grueling 6 DAYS of at least my career. Waste of time, money, resources. If they're gonna take "training" that far, there needs to be a degree involved, and a significant pay increase because, like my neighbor, there are way better paying jobs out there the require the same level of training. In his case, less. He works on medical equipment, specialises in hydraulics. Makes about $145,000 a year doing it. At Kubota dealer, I made under $50k and was the highest paid tech in the entire 13 store chain (partly because I had been in that business for 30 years).

They "should" absolutley know their way around them but the reality is that often they don't. Unfortunate.
So factory trained techs are paid poorly and that excuses lack of basic system knowledge and limited learning ability? They are professional mechanics with professional accreditations right? They are employed by a factory service facility with access to factory documentation and a factory trained service manager overseeing the operations right?

Regardless of what the techs are making I expect competent professional level service from the guys slaving away in the bays and the servoce manager - owner at my local family owned garage and a whole lot more at the uber priced BMW service department.

Understanding the operation of the power beyond circuit on a standard L does not require training in calculus or a degree in mechanical engineering. It's basic everyday tractor repair and something every Kubota tractor service professional should have mastered regardless of their salary.

Dan