I bought an engine block heater that mounts into a freeze plug hole. Someone told me that to get the freeze plug out, I should drill a small hole through the plug and put a screw into the hole to have something to pull on. Well, I did way too good a job drilling the hole. When I got the plug out, I saw that I had drilled the hole right through the engine block. (It was a lot easier drilling than I would have ever imagined.) How big a repair am I looking at? Would the hole be into a cylinder? If it is, would it be above or below the piston? Can I plug the hole with something like JB Weld, or can I get a sleeve put in the cylinder, or is the block ruined? Any help?
Drilled Hole into Engine Block
- Thread starter dejohnson88
- Start date
Hi,
Sorry to hear about your bad luck! Drilling a hole into the frost plug to remove it is probably the best way but you do have to know when to stop! The frost plug is quite close to the cylinder wall in that engine so you really have to watch when you drop through. All that is no good to you now though. The only good repair will be to sleeve that cylinder. anything else would be temporary at best.
Sorry to hear about your bad luck! Drilling a hole into the frost plug to remove it is probably the best way but you do have to know when to stop! The frost plug is quite close to the cylinder wall in that engine so you really have to watch when you drop through. All that is no good to you now though. The only good repair will be to sleeve that cylinder. anything else would be temporary at best.
Milo Holroyd
Member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
1979 L245DT w/1700 FEL, 2003 L3130 HST,w/ LA723 loader,,and L2174A snowblower
Dang, that's not good. If it were me. and I was looking at a sleeve job, vs temporary repair............well..........temporary isn't "always temporary.
First, verify were the "over-drill" is located, relative to cylinder bore, oil passages, etc. If the "over-drill" hole is easily accessible, I would simply determine the length of threads necessary to "plug" the hole, then tap the offending "over-drill" and insert a cap screw with appropriate sealant.
Milo
First, verify were the "over-drill" is located, relative to cylinder bore, oil passages, etc. If the "over-drill" hole is easily accessible, I would simply determine the length of threads necessary to "plug" the hole, then tap the offending "over-drill" and insert a cap screw with appropriate sealant.
Milo
aquaforce
New member
Equipment
L245DT FEL, JD450 Track loader, 5' scrape blade&mower, 5x10 trailer, Dump truck
(It was a lot easier drilling than I would have ever imagined.) QUOTE]
Cast iron drilles very easily compared to steel, flat iron or forged and tempered items. Sorry to hear you went through the cylinder.
Anything else is begging for a very inconvenient consequence when it fails, because it will.
Hi dejohnson, that is nasty. From the sounds of it eserve Knows exactly where you drilled. I don't, but then I am not a Kubota tech , eserve is, so I'm thinking you should be real carefull what action you take next. I don't know what a block for an L2800 is worth plus maybe a new piston, plus plus. Like Milo said make sure you know where you drilled before you do anything. I love quick fixes but only when they actually fix something. Just my 1 and a half cents. Anyway good luck and keep us posted. dusty
dustyHi there,
like the others that answered you, I feel sorry for your misfortune.
Thankfully the hole was not throught any body part. Once drilled into palm of my left hand and through bone and that really hurt.
Ok to your problem. You ask has the hole gone though the cylinder and if so is it above or below piston.
I will try and help you answer those questions.
1. What model engine is your please ?
2. Can you specify which plug exactly did you drill on block. can you take photo to post here.
I gather you have removed the welsh plug and can see the hole behind.
3. What size drill bit did you use. How long was it and if you set the drill back up as though you were drilling plug again can you estimate how far in you went on drill ?
4. If you push a piece of rigid wire like coat hanger in your drilled hole .... how far can you go into the hole you have drilled ? This may give you a clue as to how deep and thus where you have drilled into.
If you can go way deeper (like 2 or 3 inches) than the length of the drill you used then you have most likely gone into cylinder.
OK so assuming your answer the above in way we can all get exact idea where you dirlled and how deep then you may be quite lucky that you have not gone into a cylinder at all.
5. depending on the size of hole you drilled and how deep you can try inserting a long cotton bud ( Q tip) into the hole and work it around. Look at what it is coated in when you draw it out. You most likely should be able to tell if you have drilled into an oil gallery.
Next before you start dismantling things you can try a few check to get better idea.
First assuming the hole is quite deep then if it were me and I could not work out accuratly if hole equates to a critical point on the piston then
a. I would remove injectors to make engine easy to turn over by hand at fan end.If your engine has a decompressor lever then that may work well enough in making engine free to turn WITHOUT need to remove injectors.
b. I am lucky as I have access to a item called a fibre optic bore scope to look down bore of the suspect cylinder or in the "drilled hole" to see where it leads.
But unless you can borrow a fibre optic bore scope I would get a cheap Led tourch and modify it so the white Led (globe) is on some fine electrical wires seperate of the torch body and can be fed into the hole you have drilled enough to see in. Tricky to explain but what I am trying to say is you get point source of light in hole, yet type you can still see past. DONT push it in to far so piston would cut it off . Then turn engine slowly by hand and you may just get to see the skirt of piston and also you may be able to make out how thick the metal is where you drilled though.
Then, if heaven forbid, you in cylinder, then maybe, just maybe, you are way below the rings and gudgen pin hole and unlikey as is you maybe, if into the cylinder below the lowest point of piston stroke.
The type of repair that you can do then depends on what you find, based on my somewhat long winded questions and tests.
Reality is
c. if the material you drilled into is blind hole your laughing ..
d. if its way deep hole then basically you need to stop the water getting throught that hole into where ever cavity - hole ( cylinder maybe) is.
e. and the thickness of what you drilled though and size of drill hole you used will dictate the possible 100% reliable repair you may be able to achieve WITHOUT dismantling the engine.
good luck
David
(( 30 Plus years a Caterpillar trained diesel engine technican and Robotics Engineer. ))
like the others that answered you, I feel sorry for your misfortune.
Thankfully the hole was not throught any body part. Once drilled into palm of my left hand and through bone and that really hurt.
Ok to your problem. You ask has the hole gone though the cylinder and if so is it above or below piston.
I will try and help you answer those questions.
1. What model engine is your please ?
2. Can you specify which plug exactly did you drill on block. can you take photo to post here.
I gather you have removed the welsh plug and can see the hole behind.
3. What size drill bit did you use. How long was it and if you set the drill back up as though you were drilling plug again can you estimate how far in you went on drill ?
4. If you push a piece of rigid wire like coat hanger in your drilled hole .... how far can you go into the hole you have drilled ? This may give you a clue as to how deep and thus where you have drilled into.
If you can go way deeper (like 2 or 3 inches) than the length of the drill you used then you have most likely gone into cylinder.
OK so assuming your answer the above in way we can all get exact idea where you dirlled and how deep then you may be quite lucky that you have not gone into a cylinder at all.
5. depending on the size of hole you drilled and how deep you can try inserting a long cotton bud ( Q tip) into the hole and work it around. Look at what it is coated in when you draw it out. You most likely should be able to tell if you have drilled into an oil gallery.
Next before you start dismantling things you can try a few check to get better idea.
First assuming the hole is quite deep then if it were me and I could not work out accuratly if hole equates to a critical point on the piston then
a. I would remove injectors to make engine easy to turn over by hand at fan end.If your engine has a decompressor lever then that may work well enough in making engine free to turn WITHOUT need to remove injectors.
b. I am lucky as I have access to a item called a fibre optic bore scope to look down bore of the suspect cylinder or in the "drilled hole" to see where it leads.
But unless you can borrow a fibre optic bore scope I would get a cheap Led tourch and modify it so the white Led (globe) is on some fine electrical wires seperate of the torch body and can be fed into the hole you have drilled enough to see in. Tricky to explain but what I am trying to say is you get point source of light in hole, yet type you can still see past. DONT push it in to far so piston would cut it off . Then turn engine slowly by hand and you may just get to see the skirt of piston and also you may be able to make out how thick the metal is where you drilled though.
Then, if heaven forbid, you in cylinder, then maybe, just maybe, you are way below the rings and gudgen pin hole and unlikey as is you maybe, if into the cylinder below the lowest point of piston stroke.
The type of repair that you can do then depends on what you find, based on my somewhat long winded questions and tests.
Reality is
c. if the material you drilled into is blind hole your laughing ..
d. if its way deep hole then basically you need to stop the water getting throught that hole into where ever cavity - hole ( cylinder maybe) is.
e. and the thickness of what you drilled though and size of drill hole you used will dictate the possible 100% reliable repair you may be able to achieve WITHOUT dismantling the engine.
good luck
David
(( 30 Plus years a Caterpillar trained diesel engine technican and Robotics Engineer. ))
first of all this is a d1503 engine. the drill will have gone through the cylinder wall, below the combustion area. these are thinwall castings so the thickness here is less than .250. the engine is not equipped with sleeves so none are available from Kubota. An aftermarket sleeve can be installed to repair this though it isn't recommended by kubota. ( they believe sleeving the engine compromises the strength of the block) As a professional Kubota mechanic I recommend in this order, a replacement engine (best) replace block (second best) resleeve block ( Third best) anything else you are on your own.
A replacement block lists at $1785 Canadian. A complete new engine will be north of $7000. sleeving your block will be $150-$200 plus all the labor.
Maybe you have insurance that will help with the cost?
Ed
A replacement block lists at $1785 Canadian. A complete new engine will be north of $7000. sleeving your block will be $150-$200 plus all the labor.
Maybe you have insurance that will help with the cost?
Ed
Me too, Vic. I have always used a punch or screwdriver, (the most misused tool ever), to knock the freeze plug loose; then pull it out with pliers.I'm getting sick just reading these posts.
Robert
Same here. Drilling can lead to expensive repairs and I am a machinist by training and I hate to drill unless I can see the other side. Going blind into the block is way to damaging. One idea would be to take it in to a welder and seeing if he can plug it, very unlikely but it might be the only shot left if you can not afford a new engine.
You are not really drilling blind into the engine block. You just drill through the thin steel frost plug and stop there. I have drilled hundreds of them. Driving them in, turning them and prying them out is not without it's risks too. I use both methods but much prefer drilling if I can!
It might be possible to weld it alright . the screw idea could work as well but the cylinder is quite thin and you'd have to be sure the screw didn't protrude into the cylinder or the piston would hit it!
Ed
Ed
If it was me, I would use a pipe tap, and put a pipe plug in it. That way it will seal as it gets snug. Or if I didn't have that stuff around, tap it, put a short bolt in it with sealer on it, so the head of the bolt seals against the block. It takes a spacific set of steps to weld the block, and if not done right, can cause more damage than good. Just because a dealer won't do the repair that way, doesn't mean it won't work, or last. Remember, dealers like to make $.
Many of you don't seem to understand how thin the cylinders are in modern engines. I don't believe a pipe plug would work very well. you would be lucky to get a couple of threads and the risk of it protruding into the cylinder and contacting the piston skirt would be huge! Of course dealers want to make $'s, that is how we keep the doors open, but we also want to do quality work that lasts. There is no way I would weld, install a screw or pipe plug, JB weld, bubblegum or in any other way repair this engine short of resleeving it. I have a reputation to uphold. If it were an old POS maybe, but not a relatively new tractor!
Ed
Ed
I read earlier that the cylinder wall thickness is around .250, that would be thick enough for a plug. But as you said, have to make sure it doesn't stick through into the cylinder. No, it might not be the best way to fix it, but it could work for years. I've seen questionable "farm" repairs last for the life of a machine. Sometimes there just isn't the funds, or time to do a full rebuild.
Milo Holroyd
Member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
1979 L245DT w/1700 FEL, 2003 L3130 HST,w/ LA723 loader,,and L2174A snowblower
Ed, I understand where your coming from with the doing things "right".
hav2's comment in regard to dealers implied that they are only in business to "make" money. As you stated if ya don't make money, ya go out business.
I also realize that as a dealer, that has to warranty their repairs, and maintain a reputation, you can't advise, recommend, or perform shortcuts. One should expect nothing less.
On the other hand. An individual with the proper skill-set, and willingness to accept the liability of their repairs / shortcuts, can go a long way in keeping things running. Safely, I might add.
If dejohnson can't find someone with the aforementioned skills, to guide him in (what could be a permanent fix). Then he has no choice but the expensive and 100% proper route. But, he's already up the creek. I would think that he could find a local auto/truck/farm,implement type person to attempt the repair. Just my thoughts
Milo
hav2's comment in regard to dealers implied that they are only in business to "make" money. As you stated if ya don't make money, ya go out business.
I also realize that as a dealer, that has to warranty their repairs, and maintain a reputation, you can't advise, recommend, or perform shortcuts. One should expect nothing less.
On the other hand. An individual with the proper skill-set, and willingness to accept the liability of their repairs / shortcuts, can go a long way in keeping things running. Safely, I might add.
If dejohnson can't find someone with the aforementioned skills, to guide him in (what could be a permanent fix). Then he has no choice but the expensive and 100% proper route. But, he's already up the creek. I would think that he could find a local auto/truck/farm,implement type person to attempt the repair. Just my thoughts
Milo
I Guess we should check for a hole in the block behind the block heater the next time we find a tractor with ant-freeze in the oil. The owner may have just patched it with gum or something! LOL! I KNOW there are many ways that hole could be plugged but. really now, which one of you would want to buy that used tractor? I suggest many ways that folks can get around expensive repairs but not ways that turn my beloved Kubotas into Belarus's!
The main reason I suggested fixing it the way, is thats how I would do it out at the house. I do all the repairs on everything I own, and if I dont think it would work for me, I wouldnt tell someone else to do it. I have fixed many things, that dealers would have done differently. As, if a hole was popped in a (weldable) oil pan, weld it up. The dealer would replace the pan with a new one. But, as in anything, it has to be done right. If you use too long of a plug it will couse more problems than good. But if its the right length, and the hole isnt above the piston rings on the piston at BDC, all the plug would be doing is holding back about 15psi of water. an easy job at that..
Hmmm again. I have lost count on the number of times the professional has messed up and cost me $$$$$$. Like the engine overhaul I had done that lasted 200hrs and cost me another 15K to repair And getting warranty, wow that's fun too. There are many ways to repair that cheap and simple. It is obviously not a high stress area if it is 1/4" thick.